Love Wins.

[Daedalus^2]

So, Rob Bell has a new book that's got quite a bit of controversy surrounding it.

Anyone got some thoughts on it? Open to anything, from intelligent discussion or simple 'ROB BELL IS TEH ANTICHRIST LULZ' sort of stuff.

I'll post my opinions later on, but let's get some conversation flowing first.

 

[Marycita]

Love does win..

but I don't agree with Rob Bell and that whole movement on a lot.

 

[mina]

I don't even know who he is......bit i just googled him. And just reading descriptions of him; it's enough to make we not want to read his book- for no theological reason; just because he's described as a "rock-star type" pastor.

 

[Inkachu]

I haven't read the book, but I've read about it, and about Bell. From what I gather (and anyone who knows more, feel free to correct me) his book suggests that judgement doesn't come after death, ie you don't go to hell forever if you reject Jesus Christ. Or that you can somehow become saved even after you die. To quote Bell "If we have the freedom to choose these things now, that Jesus came to offer us and show us, then I assume that when you die, you can continue to choose these realities..."

It's a nice notion to make God this big, fluffy bunny rabbit of "love". But if we're brutally honest with ourselves, love isn't easy, love doesn't always feel good, and love isn't always pretty. Love demands. Love is ruthless. I mean, sheesh, the Bible even says love is stronger than death...that's pretty freakin' strong. That's not fluffy.

The Bible also says "it is appointed unto man once to die, and after this, the judgement". Not "after this, the second chance to be saved".

So, while it's hard for our frail little hearts and minds to understand hell and being lost, God doesn't operate on our frail little level. Thank God.

 

[crishmael]

It seems most people I've seen with an opinion on the book haven't even read it. I plan on reading it when I get some spare time at the end of the semester. Rob Bell himself has denied the universalist label that he got slapped with by early reactors, and the reviews I've read from people without an axe to grind have agreed that it does not affirm universalism. When I get a chance to read it, I'll be sure to share my perspective.

 

[broken_one]

It's like the last thread.....ALL OVER AGAIN.

 

[SullivanZ]

I haven't read the book, though I find it odd that people who haven't even read it are so quick to make judgments about it. :/

I think until people read it they should just be quiet about it.

And, uh...

But if we're brutally honest with ourselves, love isn't easy, love doesn't always feel good, and love isn't always pretty. Love demands. Love is ruthless. I mean, sheesh, the Bible even says love is stronger than death...that's pretty freakin' strong. That's not fluffy.

Love conquered death so naturally it must be stronger.

"Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous or boastful or proud 5 or rude. It does not demand its own way. It is not irritable, and it keeps no record of being wronged. 6 It does not rejoice about injustice but rejoices whenever the truth wins out. 7 Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance." 1 Cor 13

The underlines parts seem to disagree with you.

 

[SullivanZ]

It seems most people I've seen with an opinion on the book haven't even read it. I plan on reading it when I get some spare time at the end of the semester. Rob Bell himself has denied the universalist label that he got slapped with by early reactors, and the reviews I've read from people without an axe to grind have agreed that it does not affirm universalism. When I get a chance to read it, I'll be sure to share my perspective.

Makes you wonder where Christianity would be without its belief in hell. Why, people might actually be forced to stop worshipping God out of fear and actually start following Him out of love instead! :o Scary thought, no?

 

[crishmael]

Makes you wonder where Christianity would be without its belief in hell. Why, people might actually be forced to stop worshipping God out of fear and actually start following Him out of love instead! :o Scary thought, no?

The way God gets portrayed sometimes the only motivation to worship him is fear.

 

[Inkachu]

Love conquered death so naturally it must be stronger.

"Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous or boastful or proud 5 or rude. It does not demand its own way. It is not irritable, and it keeps no record of being wronged. 6 It does not rejoice about injustice but rejoices whenever the truth wins out. 7 Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance." 1 Cor 13

The underlines parts seem to disagree with you.

By this logic, because God is love, God cannot demand anything, therefore all His commandments are just "suggestions" and Jesus' death was nothing, because sin didn't demand the sacrifice of His death.

Mmhmm. Got it.

 

[He.Loves.You]

I've been reading "Knowledge of the Holy" by Tozier, which attempts to describe God's attributes as they are knowable by us. These include love, justice, mercy, grace, omnipotence, etc.

The book says that all God's attributes work together in equal measure and harmony because He is perfect. Therefore, love doesn't "win". All of God's attributes "win" in equal measure, including God's justice and inability to tolerate sin outside the bounds of this redemptive period.

 

[tapi]

The way God gets portrayed sometimes the only motivation to worship him is fear.

But if a person repents and turns to God only through fear and terror, their repentance could never be an authentic attempt to reconcile ourselves with God and come to communion with Him, but only be a self-serving attempt to avoid these horrors.

Christ died to save us by conquering the power of death, not by paying off an evil God, who had to have vengeange and could not give forgiveness.

 

[crishmael]

But if a person repents and turns to God only through fear and terror, their repentance could never be an authentic attempt to reconcile ourselves with God and come to communion with Him, but only be a self-serving attempt to avoid these horrors.

Christ died to save us by conquering the power of death, not by paying off an evil God, who had to have vengeange and could not give forgiveness.

I don't disagree with you. I was just saying that how God is often portrayed (i.e. the one Jesus has to save us from) does not inspire love in my perspective. He inspires fear in people because of what he can and promises to do to those who cross him, but there is little of God as the lover of humanity in that theology.

 

[Lord Herdsetk]

hehehe, I know what else makes you win

http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2011/03/12/alg_tiger_blood.jpg

But yeah I actually haven't read Love Wins yet. I might pick it up just to see what the fuss is

 

[tapi]

I don't disagree with you. I was just saying that how God is often portrayed (i.e. the one Jesus has to save us from) does not inspire love in my perspective. He inspires fear in people because of what he can and promises to do to those who cross him, but there is little of God as the lover of humanity in that theology.

Yeah.. didn't think you would have suggested otherwise Just wanted to point out pretty much the same thing you did

 

[Inkachu]

I've been reading "Knowledge of the Holy" by Tozier, which attempts to describe God's attributes as they are knowable by us. These include love, justice, mercy, grace, omnipotence, etc.

The book says that all God's attributes work together in equal measure and harmony because He is perfect. Therefore, love doesn't "win". All of God's attributes "win" in equal measure, including God's justice and inability to tolerate sin outside the bounds of this redemptive period.

This.

But if a person repents and turns to God only through fear and terror, their repentance could never be an authentic attempt to reconcile ourselves with God and come to communion with Him, but only be a self-serving attempt to avoid these horrors.

Christ died to save us by conquering the power of death, not by paying off an evil God, who had to have vengeange and could not give forgiveness.

"The FEAR of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge." (Proverbs 1:7)

"Without the SHEDDING OF BLOOD there is no remission of sins." (Hebrews 9:22)
"...you were BOUGHT with a PRICE." (1 Corinthians 6:20)

Jesus' death was PAYMENT for sin. Not because God is evil, but because God's holiness demands a sacrifice for sin. Before Jesus, the Jews had to kill animals for atonement for their sins. After Jesus, the price was paid "once for all" (Hebrews 10:10)

 

[SweetDee]

Blind post.



I heard about the controversy but have not read the book yet. I'm planning on picking it up this week and reading it so I can see for myself what's all the hoopla is about. And I need to check out the YouTube video of him that everyone is talking about.

 

[memoriesbymichelle]

I don't have to read the book to be able to have an opinion on the man and what his stated beliefs are (IMHO). God is long suffering toward us, and He knows everything and everybody. He gave us the Bible for a reason. That is His instruction book to us, so I don't need someone else to tell me that it isn't true. The Bible tells me all I need to know and it does talk about judgement and about people that will not choose God and will go into eternal punishment. They won't go there because they didn't have all the facts or didn't know the whole story. They will be fully aware of their choices and of who God is and they STILL will not choose God. As painful as this is to realize it is truth. Everyone will be given every opportunity to know God and choose. And God already knows who will choose Him, but everything also has appointed times.

 

[Wren]

You know what's funny to me? All of the people who publicly take issue with his book are helping his sales. I know I want to read the book to see what's true or not about it and the author's thoughts. Before I probably wouldn't have been interested and had only very vaguely heard of Rob Bell.

 

[Keri]

Anyone got some thoughts on it?

Not really.

I prefer to read the Word, over "Christian" books. I can get all the advice and guidance I need from it.