Losing the Fear of Generating CO2

[Heissonear]

Many have become infected with CAGW through men.

The result is the fear of "CO2 increasing".

Through observation of Earth' dominating natural weather and climate process then over time people can get over this man induced phobia.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Nice try. You have it backwards, atmospheric CO2 change follows Earths temperature.

The SkepticalScience is loaded with disinformation for warmist to spread as their gospel.

Wrong again. The only place where it leads is at the Antarctic The Antarctic is not the world. As the graph I supplied shows when it comes to global temperatures CO2 normally lags. Do you need help understanding the graph that I posted? I can help you with that.

 

[Heissonear]

Once again, show me current observable evidence of CO2 emissions induced Global Temperature Change.

Face it, because of Mother Nature's dominant processes any sign of CO2 as a GHG is buried in insignificance. All we can see is Mother Nature in control of Earth's weather and temperature.

 

[Chalnoth]

Nice try. You have it backwards, atmospheric CO2 change follows Earths temperature.

What are you talking about? The full global temperature change in that plot doesn't occur until hundreds of years after the change in CO2 concentration (this is likely because it takes hundreds of years for the oceans to mix fully). Your conclusion cannot be supported by the evidence.

The SkepticalScience is loaded with disinformation for warmist to spread as their gospel.

Prove it.

 

[Chalnoth]

Once again, show me current observable evidence of CO2 emissions induced Global Temperature Change.

Why? You've proven that you'll just ignore evidence that is presented to you.

 

[Heissonear]

Promoting increase in atmospheric CO2 concentration as catastrophic is pushing fear towards others.

Calling it a pollutant rather than a critically low concentration nutrient for vegatation is what those promoting fear upon others do.

 

[amanuensis63]

Face it, because of Mother Nature's dominant processes any sign of CO2 as a GHG is buried in insignificance. All we can see is Mother Nature in control of Earth's weather and temperature.

Heissonear, I'm more than happy to answer any earth science question you have. Have you ever heard of something called Stable Isotope Geochemistry? It's really neat!

An isotope is just a variant of a given element but with a different number of neutrons. So 12-C means carbon-12. 6 Protons and 6 neutrons. 13-C has 6 protons and 7 neutrons! It has a slightly different mass and living systems (like TREES and PLANTS) take up, preferentially, the lighter carbon-12!

COAL and other fossil fuels are made of ancient PLANT REMAINS (or algal remains or bacterial remains as in the case of oil...don't be confused OIL IS NOT FROM DINOSAURS! LOL!)

Plants and algae tend to preferentially fix lighter carbon isotopes, so when we BURN THE FOSSIL FUELS the CO2 that comes off (because when you burn carbon you make CO2 + H2O + a few other things), the CO2 is dominated by LIGHTER carbon isotopes!

Now here's the really cool part! We know that the current run-up in excess CO2 in our atmosphere is dominated by LIGHTER C-12 containing CO2! And we can look at tree ring data and figure out that before 1850 the atmospheric CO2 levels were stable and a slight bit heavier in 13-C than today...and that old level was stable for about 10,000 years!

DO YOU KNOW WHAT HAPPENED IN THE MIDDLE 19th CENTURY? Yup! THE INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION! That's when we started burning lots of carbon (from coal) in large enough amounts to shift the relative level of 12-C in the atmosphere!

Isn't that cool??? It basically is a big ol' giant HUMAN FINGERPRINT on the excess CO2 in the atmosphere today!

 

[Heissonear]

As time goes by the hyped predictions Alarmist promote continue to fail through real world observations.

Keep your fear of CO2 to yourself!

 

[amanuensis63]

Heissonear, I also want to tell you about a field called PALEOCLIMATOLOGY. That is where the scientists study the earth's climate LONG AGO! Like millions of years ago!

They can tell generally what the climate was like as well as possible REASONS for it to be warmer or cooler! That helps us know that the CURRENT warming we are seeing is likely NOT due to the sun and NOT due to the positions of the continents but largely due to HUMAN ACTIVITY.

How do the scientists know this? Because they have measured the impact of various "FORCINGS" on the climate! CO2 has a known relationship to temperature in the atmosphere and we know how much excess CO2 we've added (along with OTHER greenhouse gases) and we also know generally how much land usage we've changed (that also makes a difference).

And that is how we know, with about 95% confidence, that the current warming is largely due to humans!

You can learn a LOT more about this interesting field of GEOLOGY if you go to your LIBRARY or a local COLLEGE! Ask your teacher to tell you more about where you can learn some of this GEOLOGY and EARTH SCIENCE!

It's lotsa fun! (PLUS, you can learn about DINOSAURS too! )

 

[Chalnoth]

Promoting increase in atmospheric CO2 concentration as catastrophic is pushing fear towards others.

Not if that fear is realistic. Realistic fear is not harmful: it's helpful.

Calling it a pollutant rather than a critically low concentration nutrient for vegatation is what those promoting fear upon others do.

The dose makes the poison. Oxygen is critical for humans and other animals, for example. But increasing the percentage of the oxygen in the atmosphere would make things pretty uncomfortable for us.

The total effect of increasing CO2 concentrations is actually harmful for the Earth's plants (in large part because it increases the frequency of droughts).

 

[amanuensis63]

As time goes by the hyped predictions Alarmist promote continue to fail through real world observations.

Keep your fear of CO2 to yourself!

We just want to help you learn SCIENCE. If you learn science there's LOTS of fun things you can do with the knowledge!

Like maybe you want to understand what people 150 years ago knew about CO2! There was a famous FRENCH scientist, mathematician, named FOURIER who figured out that CO2 absorbs Infrared Radiation!

That was 150 years ago! Wow!

Here's a picture of Fourier:

And here's a picture of INFRARED RADIATION BEING ABSORBED BY CO2! (it's the little divot about 2400cm-1)

 

[Heissonear]

Leaving the church of Eco-Extremism is a good thing. For some it will take more real world observations, like

 

[Chalnoth]

As time goes by the hyped predictions Alarmist promote continue to fail through real world observations.

Keep your fear of CO2 to yourself!

What predictions would these be, precisely? And how did they fail?

The last in-depth test of previous predictions that I'm aware of is the Copenhagen Diagnosis, which evaluated the 2000 IPCC report's predictions in 2009. The results were that the temperature predictions were spot-on, but the nasty effects of global warming (e.g. sea level rise) were significantly worse than predicted.

 

[Chalnoth]

Leaving the church of Eco-Extremism is a good thing. For some it will take more real world observations, like

Why do you think the existence of winter disproves global warming?

 

[amanuensis63]

Once again, show me current observable evidence of CO2 emissions induced Global Temperature Change.

THESE ARE CALLED GRAPHS! In the top left hand side you can see the ACTUAL temperature in red and the grey is how the climate models fit the data when you only look at NATURAL FORCINGS.

Look at the graph at the bottom...it shows the fit when you use NATURAL AND HUMAN FORCINGS (things like CO2 generation).

Note how much better it is when you include HUMAN FORCINGS!

Wow!

Face it, because of Mother Nature's dominant processes any sign of CO2 as a GHG is buried in insignificance. All we can see is Mother Nature in control of Earth's weather and temperature.

You would be wrong. But that's OK! Not everyone knows about SCIENCE. You can learn it! It's easy to learn! And FUN!

 

[Justatruthseeker]

I believe you meant this post, as that one doesn't talk about the specific time scales at all:
http://www.christianforums.com/thre...f-generating-co2.7881039/page-3#post-67998560

The answer here is simple: it takes time for the planet to respond to changes in CO2 concentration. The changes that are highlighted in those plots took millennia. The current warming has only been significant over the past 45 years or so.

Who you trying to fool? That graph shows you changes in temperature were almost immediately followed by changes in CO2. Or if you prefer the fantasy that the changes in CO2 were immediately followed by changes in temperature. Millenia, I mean just who are you trying to convince, yourself?

I mean look at how closely they followed one another. Your concept of the required time is clearly an erroneous thought process.

So basically what those graphs say is that there's quite a bit more warming to come even if we stop all fossil fuel burning today.

No, what those graphs say is the current interglacial period is about over with.

That timescale is precisely the problem. It doesn't make sense to look at correlations that appeared over hundreds to thousands of years and try to apply them to the changes in the last 45 years.

Yet you claim to be able to look at correlations that appeared over millions of years and try to apply them incorrectly to everything we know about how reproduction works. I'd say the only thing that doesn't correlate is your theory to the data in either case.

About 20,000 years ago when temperatures rose more steeply than today - then why didn't the CO2 take mellinia to catch up? Or if you want to take your fantasy when the CO2 rose faster than observed today, did not temperature take mellinia to catch up?

And suddenly your own claim works against you.

I really don't know what you're trying to say here, but the Sun has been entirely ruled-out as a significant factor in the recent warming.

Of course it has - just like all the other planets have been ignored by you too.

I'd say that claim is about as correct as the one before.

All the other planets are not warming, though. And those that are are doing so for very different reasons. This has already been pointed out to you. Why have you refused to acknowledge it?

Really? What reasons? If it's by different processes how would you know?

Big Mystery: Jupiter Looses A Stripe

Somehow your "CLAIM" of understanding seems a little shallow.

No, it really wasn't. This is the warmest it's been for at least 4,000 years:
http://io9.com/5989440/report-global-temps-are-the-highest-theyve-been-in-4000-years

And? 20,000 years ago it was -8 degrees centigrade globally, so its warmer than it's been in 20,000 years. 125,000 years ago it was +3 degrees globally, 2 degrees warmer than today. Again, despite your claim man has caused it to increase.

See that little tiny extension at the top right? That's what we have done, kept it from reaching past temperatures and delayed the natural fall afterwards.

 

[Heissonear]

Not if that fear is realistic. Realistic fear is not harmful: it's helpful.


The dose makes the poison. Oxygen is critical for humans and other animals, for example. But increasing the percentage of the oxygen in the atmosphere would make things pretty uncomfortable for us.

The total effect of increasing CO2 concentrations is actually harmful for the Earth's plants (in large part because it increases the frequency of droughts).

1. What is that dosage? You do not know, do you?

2. The current amount of Anthropogenic CO2 emissions has no real world effect.

3. Explain changes first that Mother Nature first before the spill about CO2 Alarmism. OK. She started this "climate" thing in discussion. Give her due respect.

 

[amanuensis63]

Nice try. You have it backwards, atmospheric CO2 change follows Earths temperature.

I see you don't know CHEMISTRY either. That's OK. Let's talk about CHEMISTRY.

CO2 is a GAS. It can DISSOLVE in liquids like WATER. WHen you heat water up that has absorbed CO2 it can RELEASE the CO2! This is something called HENRY'S LAW.

(Don't worry if you've never heard of that, they usually teach in in HIGH SCHOOL chemistry).

Now that means CO2 CAN come out of the water and go into the atmosphere when temperatures go up! But it doesn't change the fact that CO2 can also cause warming because it ABSORBS IR RADIATION!

Gosh, Science can be confusing and hard! But don't worry! You can learn it! And it's FUN!

 

[Chalnoth]

2. The current amount of Anthropogenic CO2 emissions has no real world effect.

What, specifically, do you think the climate sensitivity to a doubling of CO2 is and why?

 

[Heissonear]

Justa looks at Mother Nature first. And sees all that is needed to explain what we observe. Simple, unless you turned to be an Alarmist.