Lordking wrote: 2. Physics vs Evolution: The Law of Entropy. a) The second law of thermodynamics is a simple and infinitely observable one. This law proposes that things get worse over time "Complexity in a closed system decreases over time." By definition, evolution proposes the opposite. The idea is that we are stronger and faster and smarter than our ancestors who lived millions of years ago. The Law of Entropy would say otherwise. According to the law of entropy, our ancestors endured less disease, deformity, and even lived longer, because we are the decayed replica of something that existed years ago. In order for evolution to be true we would see new species forming rapidly, new stars forming rapidly, and the fossil record of ancestry would be shaped like darwin's tree in some way.
RESPONSE: Actually, the Second Law of Thermodynamics (Thermo = heat, dynamics = motion) states, “Heat cannot spontaneously flow from a colder location to a hotter location.” Entropy is a measure of how much this process has progressed. “The Law of Entropy” (it isn’t a law, it is a System Property(l)).
(l) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_thermodynamic_properties
Questions:
1) For you, what relevance does thermodynamics have with the theory of evolution?
2) For you. what relevance does entropy have with disease, deformity, and lived longer?
3) For you, what relevance does entropy have to do with decayed replica of something?
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Laws_of_thermodynamics
Lordking wrote: b) To my knowledge what we've actually observed is that species are going extinct all the time, but new species are not forming. We see stars blow up all the time but we never see stars form, yet there are trillions upon trillions of them out there. A Japanese archaeologist observed that the actual tree of life is upside down. There are less species today than there were before. By following that pattern we can conclude that there was a spontaneous creation of all species in the beginning, and we're just left with what survived today and few extras from micro-evolution (i.e. wolves, dogs, coyotes).
RESPONSE: Actually, that has been observed by Ecologists since the 1960s. Scientist this great extinction of species, the Holocene Extinction(m). We, human beings, are the cause. The climate change that man has caused starting 10,000 B.C.E. (Before Christian Era).
(m) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction
Lordking wrote: What scientific evidence is there that evolution is capable of explaining the naturalistic creation of a universe that increases complexity over time. I believe that, in order to comply with the law of entropy , the universe requires a spontaneous creation. I want to know if there is any scientific evidence that gives evolution the right to defy the Law of Entropy without intelligent interaction.
RESPONSE: Evolution does NOT explain the naturalistic creation of a universe, Cosmology does. The laws of thermodynamics in general, and the “law of entropy” are bounded (limited to issues involving movement of heat.)
Lordking wrote: We defy the law of entropy all the time, we have repairmen, mechanics and doctors. We use intelligence to defy the law of entropy, and nature uses natural systems more complicated than any machine we've ever created to defy the law of entropy.
RESPONSE: Of course, life is a “thermodynamic open system,” animals gain energy by going outside of their own body systems and consuming nutrients from their environment. We need the nutrients for energy to keep our bodies warm, and maintain the body’s ability to do work. All living things reach a maximum level of entropy, we call it death. According to the second law of thermodynamics the entropy of an isolated system never decreases; such a system will spontaneously proceed towards thermodynamic equilibrium, the configuration with maximum entropy. Systems that are not isolated may decrease in entropy, provided they increase the entropy of their environment by at least that same amount.
How does the body “defy” the state system of entropy? It doesn’t.
Lordking wrote: The Law of Entropy states that, "Complexity in a closed system decreases over time."
Entropy, in thermodynamics, means energy that is not available to do work.
According to the second law of thermodynamics the entropy of an isolated system never decreases; such a system will spontaneously proceed towards thermodynamic equilibrium, the configuration with maximum entropy. Systems that are not isolated may decrease in entropy, provided they increase the entropy of their environment by at least that same amount.
Since entropy is a state function, the change in the entropy of a system is the same for any process that goes from a given initial state to a given final state, whether the process is reversible or irreversible. However, irreversible processes increase the combined entropy of the system and its environment.
Lordking wrote: The idea is that we are stronger and faster and smarter than our ancestors who lived millions of years ago.
RESPONSE: As a species, human beings are less than 120,000 years old. Why do you believe we are stronger in the present, than people in the past? People were very strong because life required it without the machines we now have. We are faster because our society can support for an elementary student who shows promise in sprinting or long distance running to practice up until adulthood.
The coaches teach the best techniques to improve form and speed for the individual. Add to this the proper equipment, the nutrition, and space/equipment to practice. Finally, we are smarter than our ancestors because we now write down knowledge and teach it to the general population.
In the last 25 years human beings have produced more knowledge than the previous 99,000 years.
Lordking wrote: According to the law of entropy, our ancestors endured less disease, deformity, and even lived longer, because we are the decayed replica of something that existed years ago.
“Think back to the last time you cut or grazed yourself. Can you imagine that cut becoming infected with bacteria(n) - so seriously infected that you couldn’t fight it? More people died in the past, than in the present
(n) http://www.abc.net.au/science/slab/antibiotics/faq.htm#bacteria
Before the discovery of antibiotics, there was nothing much anybody could do. Streptococcus pyogenes caused half of all post-birth deaths and was a major cause of death from burns. Staphylococcus aureus was fatal in 80 percent of infected wounds and the tuberculosis and pneumonia bacteria were famous killers.
(o) http://www.abc.net.au/science/slab/antibiotics/faq.htm#antibiotic
All this changed with the development of antibiotics.”
(p) http://www.abc.net.au/science/slab/antibiotics/history.htm
RESPONSE: Actually, the Second Law of Thermodynamics (Thermo = heat, dynamics = motion) states, “Heat cannot spontaneously flow from a colder location to a hotter location.” Entropy is a measure of how much this process has progressed. “The Law of Entropy” (it isn’t a law, it is a System Property(l)).
(l) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_thermodynamic_properties
Questions:
1) For you, what relevance does thermodynamics have with the theory of evolution?
2) For you. what relevance does entropy have with disease, deformity, and lived longer?
3) For you, what relevance does entropy have to do with decayed replica of something?
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Laws_of_thermodynamics
Lordking wrote: b) To my knowledge what we've actually observed is that species are going extinct all the time, but new species are not forming. We see stars blow up all the time but we never see stars form, yet there are trillions upon trillions of them out there. A Japanese archaeologist observed that the actual tree of life is upside down. There are less species today than there were before. By following that pattern we can conclude that there was a spontaneous creation of all species in the beginning, and we're just left with what survived today and few extras from micro-evolution (i.e. wolves, dogs, coyotes).
RESPONSE: Actually, that has been observed by Ecologists since the 1960s. Scientist this great extinction of species, the Holocene Extinction(m). We, human beings, are the cause. The climate change that man has caused starting 10,000 B.C.E. (Before Christian Era).
(m) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction
Lordking wrote: What scientific evidence is there that evolution is capable of explaining the naturalistic creation of a universe that increases complexity over time. I believe that, in order to comply with the law of entropy , the universe requires a spontaneous creation. I want to know if there is any scientific evidence that gives evolution the right to defy the Law of Entropy without intelligent interaction.
RESPONSE: Evolution does NOT explain the naturalistic creation of a universe, Cosmology does. The laws of thermodynamics in general, and the “law of entropy” are bounded (limited to issues involving movement of heat.)
Lordking wrote: We defy the law of entropy all the time, we have repairmen, mechanics and doctors. We use intelligence to defy the law of entropy, and nature uses natural systems more complicated than any machine we've ever created to defy the law of entropy.
RESPONSE: Of course, life is a “thermodynamic open system,” animals gain energy by going outside of their own body systems and consuming nutrients from their environment. We need the nutrients for energy to keep our bodies warm, and maintain the body’s ability to do work. All living things reach a maximum level of entropy, we call it death. According to the second law of thermodynamics the entropy of an isolated system never decreases; such a system will spontaneously proceed towards thermodynamic equilibrium, the configuration with maximum entropy. Systems that are not isolated may decrease in entropy, provided they increase the entropy of their environment by at least that same amount.
How does the body “defy” the state system of entropy? It doesn’t.
Lordking wrote: The Law of Entropy states that, "Complexity in a closed system decreases over time."
Entropy, in thermodynamics, means energy that is not available to do work.
According to the second law of thermodynamics the entropy of an isolated system never decreases; such a system will spontaneously proceed towards thermodynamic equilibrium, the configuration with maximum entropy. Systems that are not isolated may decrease in entropy, provided they increase the entropy of their environment by at least that same amount.
Since entropy is a state function, the change in the entropy of a system is the same for any process that goes from a given initial state to a given final state, whether the process is reversible or irreversible. However, irreversible processes increase the combined entropy of the system and its environment.
Lordking wrote: The idea is that we are stronger and faster and smarter than our ancestors who lived millions of years ago.
RESPONSE: As a species, human beings are less than 120,000 years old. Why do you believe we are stronger in the present, than people in the past? People were very strong because life required it without the machines we now have. We are faster because our society can support for an elementary student who shows promise in sprinting or long distance running to practice up until adulthood.
The coaches teach the best techniques to improve form and speed for the individual. Add to this the proper equipment, the nutrition, and space/equipment to practice. Finally, we are smarter than our ancestors because we now write down knowledge and teach it to the general population.
In the last 25 years human beings have produced more knowledge than the previous 99,000 years.
Lordking wrote: According to the law of entropy, our ancestors endured less disease, deformity, and even lived longer, because we are the decayed replica of something that existed years ago.
“Think back to the last time you cut or grazed yourself. Can you imagine that cut becoming infected with bacteria(n) - so seriously infected that you couldn’t fight it? More people died in the past, than in the present
(n) http://www.abc.net.au/science/slab/antibiotics/faq.htm#bacteria
Before the discovery of antibiotics, there was nothing much anybody could do. Streptococcus pyogenes caused half of all post-birth deaths and was a major cause of death from burns. Staphylococcus aureus was fatal in 80 percent of infected wounds and the tuberculosis and pneumonia bacteria were famous killers.
(o) http://www.abc.net.au/science/slab/antibiotics/faq.htm#antibiotic
All this changed with the development of antibiotics.”
(p) http://www.abc.net.au/science/slab/antibiotics/history.htm
Upvote
0