Life Without The Bible.

[pinetree]

Hello..

Where would we be without the Bible,as far as what we believe to be our foundation,and thoughts about God? And out fundamental beliefs?

Revelation and insight seemed to expand,or evolve throughout time,as it was being written.

Think about the oldies,the founders who heard God,but did not know all we do,as a foundation.

They walked by experience,with no written word like we have..IE Moses and Abe.

Moses had no previous text to write or quote out of.Abe believed the “voice”.

What did they trust?

There was a time before the law,before the Psalms,and then before the NT.

Paul received the Gospel by revelation…he trusted as he wrote many,many of the things we hold true today.

Did all these folks walk in more of a mystical way?

Think about if you did not have a bible,but experienced your same conversion,but had no written word to test,or refer to about more truth.

If It was pure spirit,or voice or presence only! Nothing else to go by,or ask others about. A land where there were no Bibles..

Sobering thought..

What do ya think?

 

[nephilimiyr]

Gee I don't know pinetree, I rely on the Bible quite a bit. It really is the venue in which the Holy Spirit talks to me and inspires me. I suppose if I had no Bible He would resort to another way.

I'm reminded of Corrie Ten Boom when she was first arrested by the Nazi Gestapo. After sorta becoming friends with a lady in prison who delivered her meals she asked her for a Bible. If caught, that lady would've suffered terribly but the lady had one of those little New testament Bibles smuggled in. She was a lady who did favors like this for other cellmates always expecting something in return.

In the movie, when Corrie recieved the little Bible it was as if someone just gave her the most expensive and precious gift imaginable. She treasured it as if it was worth more than life itself.

When they were transfered to the concentration camp, she risked her life and possibly the life of her sister too when she smuggled it in. And when in the barracks she and her sister would read it outloud and some joined in while others would curse them.

At the end of the movie, Corrie was freed from the concentration camp on a clerical error, she wasn't suppose to leave but die there. When she was called out of roll call and told she was leaveing, the lady who smuggled the bible in for her and was a Jew and never participated in the readings of it, asked her for the Bible and Corrie gave it to her.

On risk that I will be blamed for worshipping the Bible I say I want to be like Corrie Ten Boom who knew the value and importance of the Bible so much that she would risk her life and the life of others just to have one.

 

[nephilimiyr]

From the autobiography of Corrie Ten Boom:

Corrie describes a typical evening in which they would use their secreted Bible to hold worship services: "At first Betsie and I called these meetings with great timidity. But as night after night went by and no guard ever came near us, we grew bolder. So many now wanted to join us that we held a second service after evening roll call. . . (These) were services like no others, these times in Barracks 28. A single meeting night might include a recital of the Magnificat in Latin by a group of Roman Catholics, a whispered hymn by some Lutherans, and a sotto-voce chant by Easter Orthodox women. With each moment the crowd around us would swell, packing the nearby platforms, hanging over the edges, until the high structures groaned and swayed."

"At last either Betsie or I would open the Bible. Because only the Hollanders could understand the Dutch text we would translate aloud in German. And then we would hear the life-giving words passed back along the aisles in French, Polish, Russian, Czech, and back into Dutch. They were little previews of heaven, these evenings beneath the light bulb" (Ten Boom 1971, p. 201)

 

[Faulty]

God would still reveal Himself. He desires to be sought after and promises those who do so will not do so in vain.

Isaiah 45:18-19 "For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else. I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the LORD speak righteousness, I declare things that are right."

Hebrews 11:6 states He is the rewarder of those diligently seek him.

Matthew 7:7-8 claims "Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened."

No doubt that God would still be revealing Himself to those who seek Him as those you mentioned. Fortunately for our sake the Word has become flesh (Jn 1:14). Unfortunately for some, we will be held accountable for having such a revelation and knowledge in our time (Luke 12:48)

 

[Optimax]

If there were no Bible, there would be no us, as there would be no God.

Therefore we would have never been.

 

[pinetree]

Sure,I love the the bible too..

What I mean is..

Just trying to imagine spirt only,pure trust in the unseen.

The way others have had to walk,and rely on the still small voice.

Think about all the revelation that came direct to Paul.

The Lord appeared to Samuel as"the word of the lord"

Not written,just received.

What was it like for Paul in his moment to hear and trust all he heard.

 

[nephilimiyr]

Sure,I love the the bible too..

What I mean is..

Just trying to imagine spirt only,pure trust in the unseen.

The way others have had to walk,and rely on the still small voice.

Think about all the revelation that came direct to Paul.

The Lord appeared to Samuel as"the word of the lord"

Not written,just received.

What was it like for Paul in his moment to hear and trust all he heard.

What was it like for Paul? He prayed in tongues more than anyone else.

 

[pinetree]

If there were no Bible, there would be no us, as there would be no God.

Therefore we would have never been.

I dont quite getcha?

God always existed..

Before the NT,was there 1/2 of a God?

God existed before the Bible.

 

[pinetree]

God would still reveal Himself. He desires to be sought after and promises those who do so will not do so in vain.

Isaiah 45:18-19 "For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else. I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the LORD speak righteousness, I declare things that are right."

Hebrews 11:6 states He is the rewarder of those diligently seek him.

Matthew 7:7-8 claims "Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened."

No doubt that God would still be revealing Himself to those who seek Him as those you mentioned. Fortunately for our sake the Word has become flesh (Jn 1:14). Unfortunately for some, we will be held accountable for having such a revelation and knowledge in our time (Luke 12:48)

Hi faulty..

I am just wondering what it was like for those saints that walked by pure experience with God...

No external base,just pure trust in the unseen.

Must have been pretty awesome,and quite an experience.

 

[pinetree]

What was it like for John on Patmos?

Imagine Noah trusting the voice,to then build a boat.

 

[nephilimiyr]

What was it like for John on Patmos?

Imagine Noah trusting the voice,to then build a boat.

Well, we see that when John received the revelation he was "in the Spirit" on the Lord's day. I bet though he was like that often.

 

[pinetree]

John 1:14
Now the Word became flesh and took up residence among us. We saw his glory – the glory of the one and only, full of grace and truth, who came from the Father.

When it says the word (logos) became flesh..

Are we to think that Jesus became the Bible?

We Jesus begotten of a written word,or the living words of God?

 

[pinetree]

Well, we see that when John received the revelation he was "in the Spirit" on the Lord's day. I bet though he was like that often.

Must have been awesome!

 

[nephilimiyr]

You know, I'm going to do something brave here and submitt something for debate, perhaps this should then go to the debate forum but first here me out.

Alot of people, non-charismatic types, submitt that the gifts of the Holy Spirit were only for the early Church. One of the evidence's of this they point to the fact that the gifts slowly tapered out and were gone by the beginning or middle of the 2nd century. They assume then that the gifts were no longer needed.

During this time various people or churches had the writtings of the gospel and the epistles, but no Bible, that came latter.

Now I submitt to you that the reason for the gifts of the Holy Spirit tapering out till they weren't in the church anymore is because there was no Bible. The christians during that time slowly but surely fell into many misunderstandings of the gospel, even heresy :o, yes heresy! Why, because of no written word.

By the time the Church put together the Bible and canonized it and during the middle ages, a spiritual condition of the heart or mind took over most of the people, especially those who taught doctrine. A major spiritual paradigm needed to take place to bust it all up! It wasn't until the great charismatic movements in the late 1800's and early 1900's when it all started coming back that we see the gifts of the Holy Spirit again. Why, because more and more people had their own Bibles to read for themselves, and more and more people had left the RCC and EOC so that they weren't bound by the theologies and doctrines that were written in stone.

Hows that pinetree?

Little too rough on the RCC and EOC? I can tone it down...

 

[pinetree]

You know, I'm going to do something brave here and submitt something for debate, perhaps this should then go to the debate forum but first here me out.

Alot of people, non-charismatic types, submitt that the gifts of the Holy Spirit were only for the early Church. One of the evidence's of this they point to the fact that the gifts slowly tapered out and were gone by the beginning or middle of the 2nd century.

During this time various people or churches had the writtings of the gospel and the epistles, but no Bible, that came latter.

Now I submitt to you that the reason for the gifts of the Holy Spirit tapering out till they weren't in the church anymore is because there was no Bible. The christians during that time slowly but surely fell into many misunderstandings of the gospel, even heresy :o, yes heresy! Why, because of no written word.

By the time the Church put together the Bible and canonized it and during the middle ages, a spiritual condition of the heart took over most of the people, especially those who taught doctrine. A major spiritual paradigm needed to take place to bust it all up! It wasn't until the great charismatic movements in the late 1800's and early 1900's when it all started coming back. Why, because more and more people had their own Bibles to read for themselves, and more and more people had left the RCC and EOC so that they weren't bound by the theologies and doctrines that were written in stone.

Hows that pinetree?

I totally agree!
I am glad we have the scriptures for sound doctrine,and truth!

Just was wondering about the experience of those who did not.

Most scripture was written out of experience,revelation,or first hand encounters with an awesom living God!

 

[nephilimiyr]

What? No debate? well alright then.....

 

[Cassidy]

ha ha ha - you almost sound disappointed LOL

 

[pinetree]

What? No debate? well alright then.....

lol..I cant help it if we agree!

I am not sure,but I was under the impression that they had the gospels,and letters widely circulated amongst the churches even before canonization.

 

[Faulty]

Hi faulty..

I am just wondering what it was like for those saints that walked by pure experience with God...

No external base,just pure trust in the unseen.

Must have been pretty awesome,and quite an experience.

Actually I'd imagine it must have been a lonely lifestyle at times.

 

[nephilimiyr]

ha ha ha - you almost sound disappointed LOL

It's very enlighting and, well, fun, to have to prove what you believe. or at least it can be sometimes.

Alot of times, debate is where I am forced to go into the word, the Bible, for evidence and I just love doing that! Reading his word can be such a joy no matter the reason.