Law versus grace. The contradiction of scriptures unraveled

[Gideons300]

Much confusion and disagreement has resulted from this debate of law versus grace. On the one hand, there is no denying that scriptures clearly tell us that it is those who obey Him who are saved. On the other, it is not by works of righteousness that determines our salvation. These seem totally contradictory, and has forced the saints to choose one side or another.

May I share a different perspective and n this matter?

What if God actually did for us what He clearly promised He would do for us in the new covenant? Yes, of course, if we sin, and repent and ask forgiveness, He graciously answers. But there is more, and our eyes in these last days are about to be opened to it.

Bear with me. There are two places in the Old Testament where God clearly lays out what He will do for us under the new. One is Jeremiah 31. The other is in Ezekiel 36. And when we read His clear words to us in Ezekiel 36, we find something that is so amazing, so unheard of, so wonderful, that if it is true, it would literally turn our lives upside down. And what is it?

"... and I will cause you to walk in my statutes."

Obedience under the Old Testament was the requirement. "Obey my voice and I will be your God and you will be my people". It is summed up by this.

DO AND YOU SHALL LIVE.

But praise God, not so under the new. God says He will actually cause us to obey Him. Obedience, the requirement under the old, is given freely to us under the new. Does He not say that He will keep us from falling? That our shields off faith would quench ALL of the fiery arrows of the enemy? That no matter the temptation, He would make a way of escape?

Let me ask you, what good is a way of escape if we choose again and again not to take it? We would be no better off than those under the old covenant, But if God actually causes us to take it, it changes everything. Thus, the summation of the new covenant is

LIVE AND YOU SHALL DO.

But if this is the case, why is it not working? Why do we still disobey? Why do we fall? It is simple.

According to our faith be it unto us.

We have been blinded to the second half of the new covenant ever since the grievous wolves Paul told us about entered the church after. his death. The former rain was over, and the church, once walking is purity and power and filled with a love that could not be shaken, lost its way. Religion replaced overcoming life. What followed was 1900 years of drought with but a few intermittent showers. But in these last days, God is waking us to the lost truth. Obedience is promised under the new covenant. He asks but one thing.

Believe Him.

So where are we now? We as His church, no matter the denomination, are currently not believing it to be true. Heck, we do not even believe it is possible! In fact we think overcoming disobedience is impossible. Why? Because we still think it is on OUR shoulders to do it. And if it were, we would be correct. But we are not.

And because of our error... our unbelief... we either have had to adopt a gospel where we can freely disobey and still make Heaven our home, or we are forced back under the law of self effort, trying to be Holy, where we either fail miserably, or we get religiously proud like the Pharisees and look down on the weaklings who can't do it. Both ways are in error, for neither is the way of faith in the promises of God.

A new day is dawning. We are awakening to righteousness..... His inside of us. We are awakening to the truth that we are not trying to walk as new men. We ARE new men. No more will we think we need self control to get the fruits of the Spirit. We will finally see that self control IS a fruit of the Spirit! God inside us causes us to walk as children of light, but only when we finally see that the old us is dead....right now.....today.

A new day is dawning, dear brother. Confusion is about to be swept away, as we arm ourselves with truth, and thus are enabled to overcome the world, the flesh, and the devil. How? By faith. The latter rain is coming, and the church is about to arise from the deadness of religious service and have its feet planted ON the highway of holiness, not towards it. The church of the book of ACts turned the entire world upside down in one generation. Men would exclaim "Behold how they love one another!" Now get this. Our Heavenly Father tells us that the latter rain will be greater than the for,mer!!we are about to be overtaken with a blessing that our minds and hearts can scarcely imagine. Buckle your seatbelt. We are in for a big surprise.

I pray this helps.

Blessings,

Gideon

 

[Soyeong]

Much confusion and disagreement has resulted from this debate of law versus grace. On the one hand, there is no denying that scriptures clearly tell us that it is those who obey Him who are saved. On the other, it is not by works of righteousness that determines our salvation. These seem totally contradictory, and has forced the saints to choose one side or another.

May I share a different perspective and n this matter?

What if God actually did for us what He clearly promised He would do for us in the new covenant? Yes, of course, if we sin, and repent and ask forgiveness, He graciously answers. But there is more, and our eyes in these last days are about to be opened to it.

Bear with me. There are two places in the Old Testament where God clearly lays out what He will do for us under the new. One is Jeremiah 31. The other is in Ezekiel 36. And when we read His clear words to us in Ezekiel 36, we find something that is so amazing, so unheard of, so wonderful, that if it is true, it would literally turn our lives upside down. And what is it?

"... and I will cause you to walk in my statutes."

Obedience under the Old Testament was the requirement. "Obey my voice and I will be your God and you will be my people". It is summed up by this.

DO AND YOU SHALL LIVE.

But praise God, not so under the new. God says He will actually cause us to obey Him. Obedience, the requirement under the old, is given freely to us under the new. Does He not say that He will keep us from falling? That our shields off faith would quench ALL of the fiery arrows of the enemy? That no matter the temptation, He would make a way of escape?

Let me ask you, what good is a way of escape if we choose again and again not to take it? We would be no better off than those under the old covenant, But if God actually causes us to take it, it changes everything. Thus, the summation of the new covenant is

LIVE AND YOU SHALL DO.

But if this is the case, why is it not working? Why do we still disobey? Why do we fall? It is simple.

According to our faith be it unto us.

We have been blinded to the second half of the new covenant ever since the grievous wolves Paul told us about entered the church after. his death. The former rain was over, and the church, once walking is purity and power and filled with a love that could not be shaken, lost its way. Religion replaced overcoming life. What followed was 1900 years of drought with but a few intermittent showers. But in these last days, God is waking us to the lost truth. Obedience is promised under the new covenant. He asks but one thing.

Believe Him.

So where are we now? We as His church, no matter the denomination, are currently not believing it to be true. Heck, we do not even believe it is possible! In fact we think overcoming disobedience is impossible. Why? Because we still think it is on OUR shoulders to do it. And if it were, we would be correct. But we are not.

And because of our error... our unbelief... we either have had to adopt a gospel where we can freely disobey and still make Heaven our home, or we are forced back under the law of self effort, trying to be Holy, where we either fail miserably, or we get religiously proud like the Pharisees and look down on the weaklings who can't do it. Both ways are in error, for neither is the way of faith in the promises of God.

A new day is dawning. We are awakening to righteousness..... His inside of us. We are awakening to the truth that we are not trying to walk as new men. We ARE new men. No more will we think we need self control to get the fruits of the Spirit. We will finally see that self control IS a fruit of the Spirit! God inside us causes us to walk as children of light, but only when we finally see that the old us is dead....right now.....today.

A new day is dawning, dear brother. Confusion is about to be swept away, as we arm ourselves with truth, and thus are enabled to overcome the world, the flesh, and the devil. How? By faith. The latter rain is coming, and the church is about to arise from the deadness of religious service and have its feet planted ON the highway of holiness, not towards it. The church of the book of ACts turned the entire world upside down in one generation. Men would exclaim "Behold how they love one another!" Now get this. Our Heavenly Father tells us that the latter rain will be greater than the for,mer!!we are about to be overtaken with a blessing that our minds and hearts can scarcely imagine. Buckle your seatbelt. We are in for a big surprise.

I pray this helps.

Blessings,

Gideon

Titus 2:11-14 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people, 12 training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age, 13 waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works.

What the grace of God brings in these verses is what our salvation looks like, so our salvation from sin is not just being redeemed from the penalty of sin, but also involves being trained in righteousness and being trained to cease from sin and lawlessness (2 Timothy 3:16-17). In John 1:16-17, it says that grace was added upon grace, so the grace of Messiah was added to the grace of the law. In Romans 1:5, it says that we have received grace to bring about the obedience of faith. Strong's defines "grace" as "the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life" and God's law is His instructions for how to do His will, so when His will is reflected in our lives, that takes the form of obedience to His law in training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age. God is purifying for himself a people for His own possession who are zealous for good works, and OT Scriptures are what equip us to do every good work (2 Timothy 3:16-17). We are not saved by doing good works, but for the purpose of doing them (Ephesians 2:10). So God's law and God's grace have never been in opposition to each other, but rather God's law is how to do His will and God's grace is what trains us in obedience to His will.

Deuteronomy 30:11-16 “For this commandment that I command you today is not too hard for you, neither is it far off. 12 It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will ascend to heaven for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’ 13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ‘Who will go over the sea for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’ 14 But the word is very near you. It is in your mouth and in your heart, so that you can do it. 15 “See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil. 16 If you obey the commandments of the Lord your God[a] that I command you today, by loving the Lord your God, by walking in his ways, and by keeping his commandments and his statutes and his rules, then you shall live and multiply, and the Lord your God will bless you in the land that you are entering to take possession of it.

The problem isn't that obedience is hard, but that our hearts are hard. God's grace does not bring about disobedience or the obedience of the proud, but rather it brings the obedience of faith of those who demonstrate that they trust God about how they should live through obeying His commands.

 

[Si_monfaith]

Much confusion and disagreement has resulted from this debate of law versus grace. On the one hand, there is no denying that scriptures clearly tell us that it is those who obey Him who are saved. On the other, it is not by works of righteousness that determines our salvation. These seem totally contradictory, and has forced the saints to choose one side or another.

May I share a different perspective and n this matter?

What if God actually did for us what He clearly promised He would do for us in the new covenant? Yes, of course, if we sin, and repent and ask forgiveness, He graciously answers. But there is more, and our eyes in these last days are about to be opened to it.

Bear with me. There are two places in the Old Testament where God clearly lays out what He will do for us under the new. One is Jeremiah 31. The other is in Ezekiel 36. And when we read His clear words to us in Ezekiel 36, we find something that is so amazing, so unheard of, so wonderful, that if it is true, it would literally turn our lives upside down. And what is it?

"... and I will cause you to walk in my statutes."

Obedience under the Old Testament was the requirement. "Obey my voice and I will be your God and you will be my people". It is summed up by this.

DO AND YOU SHALL LIVE.

But praise God, not so under the new. God says He will actually cause us to obey Him. Obedience, the requirement under the old, is given freely to us under the new. Does He not say that He will keep us from falling? That our shields off faith would quench ALL of the fiery arrows of the enemy? That no matter the temptation, He would make a way of escape?

Let me ask you, what good is a way of escape if we choose again and again not to take it? We would be no better off than those under the old covenant, But if God actually causes us to take it, it changes everything. Thus, the summation of the new covenant is

LIVE AND YOU SHALL DO.

But if this is the case, why is it not working? Why do we still disobey? Why do we fall? It is simple.

According to our faith be it unto us.

We have been blinded to the second half of the new covenant ever since the grievous wolves Paul told us about entered the church after. his death. The former rain was over, and the church, once walking is purity and power and filled with a love that could not be shaken, lost its way. Religion replaced overcoming life. What followed was 1900 years of drought with but a few intermittent showers. But in these last days, God is waking us to the lost truth. Obedience is promised under the new covenant. He asks but one thing.

Believe Him.

So where are we now? We as His church, no matter the denomination, are currently not believing it to be true. Heck, we do not even believe it is possible! In fact we think overcoming disobedience is impossible. Why? Because we still think it is on OUR shoulders to do it. And if it were, we would be correct. But we are not.

And because of our error... our unbelief... we either have had to adopt a gospel where we can freely disobey and still make Heaven our home, or we are forced back under the law of self effort, trying to be Holy, where we either fail miserably, or we get religiously proud like the Pharisees and look down on the weaklings who can't do it. Both ways are in error, for neither is the way of faith in the promises of God.

A new day is dawning. We are awakening to righteousness..... His inside of us. We are awakening to the truth that we are not trying to walk as new men. We ARE new men. No more will we think we need self control to get the fruits of the Spirit. We will finally see that self control IS a fruit of the Spirit! God inside us causes us to walk as children of light, but only when we finally see that the old us is dead....right now.....today.

A new day is dawning, dear brother. Confusion is about to be swept away, as we arm ourselves with truth, and thus are enabled to overcome the world, the flesh, and the devil. How? By faith. The latter rain is coming, and the church is about to arise from the deadness of religious service and have its feet planted ON the highway of holiness, not towards it. The church of the book of ACts turned the entire world upside down in one generation. Men would exclaim "Behold how they love one another!" Now get this. Our Heavenly Father tells us that the latter rain will be greater than the for,mer!!we are about to be overtaken with a blessing that our minds and hearts can scarcely imagine. Buckle your seatbelt. We are in for a big surprise.

I pray this helps.

Blessings,

Gideon

Obedience to God is believing that His Son's works is all sufficient to save & keep us saved.
Trying to add your works to be saved & remain saved is disobedience towards God.

 

[Gideons300]

Obedience to God is believing that His Son's works is all sufficient to save & keep us saved.
Trying to add your works to be saved & remain saved is disobedience towards God.

It seems that what you are espousing is ignoring clear scriptures that tell us it is he that DOETH righteousness who is righteous. We cannot call Him 'Lord, Lord' and not seek to do ALL that He commands us. Why would we be warned that adulterers and fornicators will not inherit the kingdom of God if our actions cannot affect our standing with God.?
If what you are saying we're true, then Ananias and Saphira have a legitimate beef with God, do they not?

I fear those who are steeped in this new definition of grace where disobedience physically is totally acceptable as long as we still 'believe in Jesus' will be in for a rude awakening unless the truth dawns on them and they are rescued from this most serious error. When the goats were aghast that they were rejected (after all, they believed in Jesus and had even cast out Devils in His name), they were told that the reason they were rejected was because they really has not believed at all. How do we know this? Those who truly believe ON Him (the demons believe IN Him) will yield themselves to Him so that the master potter can transform them into vessels fit for the master's use. What you are trying to show as works is simply the fruit God promises to bring about in our lives when we yield ourselves to Him in faith.

Those with a nice head knowledge of Him but who still want to run their own lives, content to have their tickets punched to Heaven but who refuse to seek His will for their lives will find that what was given them can indeed be taken away. We were saved so that we can walk away from self rule and yield ourselves to God as those who are alive from the dead. This is not "working for our salvation" as some seem to think. It is simply what God has commanded all who say they love Him. We are called to present our bodies as living sacrifices. This is not extremist doctrine as we would be led to believe by the vast multitude of Christians today. God says it is our reasonable service. Will we agree with Him? I pray so, for when we do, trusting that He will indeed change us, and fill us with holy fruit, the full joy of our salvation will be seen by all those around us.

Blessings,

Gideon

 

[Si_monfaith]

It seems that what you are espousing is ignoring clear scriptures that tell us it is he that DOETH righteousness who is righteous. We cannot call Him 'Lord, Lord' and not seek to do ALL that He commands us. Why would we be warned that adulterers and fornicators will not inherit the kingdom of God if our actions cannot affect our standing with God.?
If what you are saying we're true, then Ananias and Saphira have a legitimate beef with God, do they not?

I fear those who are steeped in this new definition of grace where disobedience physically is totally acceptable as long as we still 'believe in Jesus' will be in for a rude awakening unless the truth dawns on them and they are rescued from this most serious error. When the goats were aghast that they were rejected (after all, they believed in Jesus and had even cast out Devils in His name), they were told that the reason they were rejected was because they really has not believed at all. How do we know this? Those who truly believe ON Him (the demons believe IN Him) will yield themselves to Him so that the master potter can transform them into vessels fit for the master's use. What you are trying to show as works is simply the fruit God promises to bring about in our lives when we yield ourselves to Him in faith.

Those with a nice head knowledge of Him but who still want to run their own lives, content to have their tickets punched to Heaven but who refuse to seek His will for their lives will find that what was given them can indeed be taken away. We were saved so that we can walk away from self rule and yield ourselves to God as those who are alive from the dead. This is not "working for our salvation" as some seem to think. It is simply what God has commanded all who say they love Him. We are called to present our bodies as living sacrifices. This is not extremist doctrine as we would be led to believe by the vast multitude of Christians today. God says it is our reasonable service. Will we agree with Him? I pray so, for when we do, trusting that He will indeed change us, and fill us with holy fruit, the full joy of our salvation will be seen by all those around us.

Blessings,

Gideon

The issue is not 'doing righteousness' but 'why is righteousness done'.

Believing it is done to be saved is rejecting the all sufficiency of Jesus' works to save us & keep us saved.

 

[Gideons300]

The issue is not 'doing righteousness' but 'why is righteousness done'.

Believing it is done to be saved is rejecting the all sufficiency of Jesus' works to save us & keep us saved.

Please do not twist my words to make them say something that was not ever said.

Here is what scripture teaches. If we abide in Him, we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. It does not imply that if we do not fulfill the lusts of the flesh, we will abide in Him. If we are truly walking in the light as He intended, fruit will result. If there is no fruit forthcoming, something is wrong.

So what is the solution if one finds themselves in this situation, even after decades of being saved? It is not to try to grow fruit, or to do acts of righteousness, as you seem bent on implying I am saying.

The solution is to figure out how to abide. And if we find no answer, and our flesh still thrives, the worst thing we can do is to assure such a one that repentance and yielding oneself to Jesus is unnecessary. Millions are being told not to worry, and that their salvation prayer of faith is valid no matter how evil they may be in their actions.

True saints know they are called to be holy, and long for the answer. Even if they are overcome, like Paul in Romans 7' they cry out from their bondage and seek the God who answers fervent prayers to deliver them.

Not so with the many found living in Romans 7, who have no desire to be changed, or to walk as living sacrifices. These have no ear for the multitude of warnings and exhortations from Christ and the apostles on the danger of continuing in sin that grace may abound. They only want 'pleasant things' where sin is ignored instead of repented of.

We are seeing the fulfillment of scripture with our very eyes. A church that says "We are rich and powerful and increased with goods and have need of nothing". Sadly, lest they break before God and cry out for deliverance from the world, the flesh and the devil, they will in the end have the door shut in their face, and weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth will begin.

But praise God, a new day is dawning and God is restoring vision to our blind eyes. We are awaking to the fact that God can deliver us from ALL evil..... in THIS life. He can keep us from falling. He will make us overcomers, but only if out hearts hunger for it more than our daily bread.

Some will read this and a chord will be struck in their hearts. Some will harden their hearts, because if it is true, they will have to turn from the sins they love, step off the throne of their heart, and let Christ rule and reign over them. This is the great divide, the point where the sheep and the goats are finally separated. The sheep will long to please their Lord and let Him transform them from transgressors to overcomers. The goats will cry 'legalism' , but it is but
a mask for their continuing in sin.

We live in an amazing time. Much is about to happen. Everything that can be shaken, will be. But God is about to show every truly hungry saint how to abide in Him, and it starts with our believing that we are not old natured men, but actually possess brand new natures, natures where sins grip on us is broken, where it is no more I that live, but Christ who lives in me. Glory to God!

Dear weary ones, disillusioned with same old Sunday-go-to-meeting church, take heart. God is about to plant your feet on the highway of holiness, and abiding in Him will be as natural as breathing. It is coming. He will not leave us in this mess we have tried to pass off as Christianity, where our lives differ very little from those of nice people in the world. The church is about to be awakened, and it will be glorious! Right now, the world looks upon us as hypocrites. Can we blame them? Soon, they will exclaim "Look! That which bore only briars and thorns has become again like the garden of Eden."

May it be, dear Father. May it be soon.

Blessings,

Gideon

 

[Si_monfaith]

Please do not twist my words to make them say something that was not ever said.

Here is what scripture teaches. If we abide in Him, we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. It does not imply that if we do not fulfill the lusts of the flesh, we will abide in Him. If we are truly walking in the light as He intended, fruit will result. If there is no fruit forthcoming, something is wrong.

So what is the solution if one finds themselves in this situation, even after decades of being saved? It is not to try to grow fruit, or to do acts of righteousness, as you seem bent on implying I am saying.

The solution is to figure out how to abide. And if we find no answer, and our flesh still thrives, the worst thing we can do is to assure such a one that repentance and yielding oneself to Jesus is unnecessary. Millions are being told not to worry, and that their salvation prayer of faith is valid no matter how evil they may be in their actions.

True saints know they are called to be holy, and long for the answer. Even if they are overcome, like Paul in Romans 7' they cry out from their bondage and seek the God who answers fervent prayers to deliver them.

Not so with the many found living in Romans 7, who have no desire to be changed, or to walk as living sacrifices. These have no ear for the multitude of warnings and exhortations from Christ and the apostles on the danger of continuing in sin that grace may abound. They only want 'pleasant things' where sin is ignored instead of repented of.

We are seeing the fulfillment of scripture with our very eyes. A church that says "We are rich and powerful and increased with goods and have need of nothing". Sadly, lest they break before God and cry out for deliverance from the world, the flesh and the devil, they will in the end have the door shut in their face, and weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth will begin.

But praise God, a new day is dawning and God is restoring vision to our blind eyes. We are awaking to the fact that God can deliver us from ALL evil..... in THIS life. He can keep us from falling. He will make us overcomers, but only if out hearts hunger for it more than our daily bread.

Some will read this and a chord will be struck in their hearts. Some will harden their hearts, because if it is true, they will have to turn from the sins they love, step off the throne of their heart, and let Christ rule and reign over them. This is the great divide, the point where the sheep and the goats are finally separated. The sheep will long to please their Lord and let Him transform them from transgressors to overcomers. The goats will cry 'legalism' , but it is but
a mask for their continuing in sin.

We live in an amazing time. Much is about to happen. Everything that can be shaken, will be. But God is about to show every truly hungry saint how to abide in Him, and it starts with our believing that we are not old natured men, but actually possess brand new natures, natures where sins grip on us is broken, where it is no more I that live, but Christ who lives in me. Glory to God!

Dear weary ones, disillusioned with same old Sunday-go-to-meeting church, take heart. God is about to plant your feet on the highway of holiness, and abiding in Him will be as natural as breathing. It is coming. He will not leave us in this mess we have tried to pass off as Christianity, where our lives differ very little from those of nice people in the world. The church is about to be awakened, and it will be glorious! Right now, the world looks upon us as hypocrites. Can we blame them? Soon, they will exclaim "Look! That which bore only briars and thorns has become again like the garden of Eden."

May it be, dear Father. May it be soon.

Blessings,

Gideon

What is flesh?

Mind corrupted by the knowledge of good & evil is flesh.

This kge told that nudity was evil which was good until then. Such a corrupted mind is flesh.

We are clothed to share gospel with those who are corrupted with kge & not Becz being clothed is holiness.

 

[GrenBH]

It seems that what you are espousing is ignoring clear scriptures that tell us it is he that DOETH righteousness who is righteous. We cannot call Him 'Lord, Lord' and not seek to do ALL that He commands us. Why would we be warned that adulterers and fornicators will not inherit the kingdom of God if our actions cannot affect our standing with God.?

This is why the doctrine of imputation is so important. We are righteous because of Christ who we are joined to by faith. Thus even those who were "ungodly," or "worketh not" are counted righteous in the sight of God by faith in Christ, because it is Christ who fulfilled the law perfectly-- which we could never do (Rom 4:5). We are not righteous in and of ourselves when we are justified or enter into glory. We are all sinners, and thus incapable of being saved (if we were to be judged of ourselves). We are justified because we receive the imputation of Christ's righteousness, so that, though we are sinners, we are adopted into the heavenly kingdom and given all the rights of heirs as children of God.

However, most of your sentiment is correct: God does work in us both to "will and to do of His good pleasure." He does indeed place His law into our hearts, and "causes us to walk in them." Augustine puts it best:

"Can you say, 'We will first walk in His righteousness, and will observe His judgments, and will act in a worthy way, so that He will give His grace to us'? But what good would you evil people do? And how would you do those good things, unless you were yourselves good? But Who causes people to be good? Only He Who said, 'And I will visit them to make them good,' and, 'I will put my Spirit within you, and will cause you to walk in my righteousness, and to observe my judgments, and do them'(Ezek.36:27). Are you asleep? Can't you hear Him saying, 'I will cause you to walk, I will make you to observe,' lastly,'I will make you to do'? Really, are you still puffing yourselves up? We walk, true enough, and we observe, and we do; but it is God Who He makes us to walk, to observe, to do. This is the grace of God making us good; this is His mercy going before us." Augustine - Against Two Letters of the Pelagians, 4:15

Ultimately, salvation is entirely the work of God, with no part of man either adding or subtracting from the infallible working of God. We are justified by faith alone, and then, after our justification, God continues to work in us to will and to do of His good pleasure. But all that occurs after justification-- the moment of faith in Christ, which itself is the gift of God-- has to do with our sanctification. Righteousness does characterize Christ's followers, but it has nothing whatever to do with our justification or "earning" or "maintaining" our place in heaven. Righteousness is the gift of God to those He has already saved.

It is important to maintain the distinction between justification, sanctification and glorification. In justification we are made right in the sight of God, being sinners with no works to show for. In sanctification, God forms us into the people He wants us to be, growing in faithfulness and obedience year after year. We are not free from sin in this state, but Christians live renewed lives. Nor does everyone live the same life or achieve the same. Some grow many fruits, some just a few, according to the grace of God. In glorification, at death, we are freed from the sin present in our flesh and become incapable of sinning, held up eternally by the omnipresent power of God.

 

[Gideons300]

This is why the doctrine of imputation is so important. We are righteous because of Christ who we are joined to by faith. Thus even those who were "ungodly," or "worketh not" are counted righteous in the sight of God by faith in Christ, because it is Christ who fulfilled the law perfectly-- which we could never do (Rom 4:5). We are not righteous in and of ourselves when we are justified or enter into glory. We are all sinners, and thus incapable of being saved (if we were to be judged of ourselves). We are justified because we receive the imputation of Christ's righteousness, so that, though we are sinners, we are adopted into the heavenly kingdom and given all the rights of heirs as children of God.

However, most of your sentiment is correct: God does work in us both to "will and to do of His good pleasure." He does indeed place His law into our hearts, and "causes us to walk in them." Augustine puts it best:

"Can you say, 'We will first walk in His righteousness, and will observe His judgments, and will act in a worthy way, so that He will give His grace to us'? But what good would you evil people do? And how would you do those good things, unless you were yourselves good? But Who causes people to be good? Only He Who said, 'And I will visit them to make them good,' and, 'I will put my Spirit within you, and will cause you to walk in my righteousness, and to observe my judgments, and do them'(Ezek.36:27). Are you asleep? Can't you hear Him saying, 'I will cause you to walk, I will make you to observe,' lastly,'I will make you to do'? Really, are you still puffing yourselves up? We walk, true enough, and we observe, and we do; but it is God Who He makes us to walk, to observe, to do. This is the grace of God making us good; this is His mercy going before us." Augustine - Against Two Letters of the Pelagians, 4:15

Ultimately, salvation is entirely the work of God, with no part of man either adding or subtracting from the infallible working of God. We are justified by faith alone, and then, after our justification, God continues to work in us to will and to do of His good pleasure. But all that occurs after justification-- the moment of faith in Christ, which itself is the gift of God-- has to do with our sanctification. Righteousness does characterize Christ's followers, but it has nothing whatever to do with our justification or "earning" or "maintaining" our place in heaven. Righteousness is the gift of God to those He has already saved.

It is important to maintain the distinction between justification, sanctification and glorification. In justification we are made right in the sight of God, being sinners with no works to show for. In sanctification, God forms us into the people He wants us to be, growing in faithfulness and obedience year after year. We are not free from sin in this state, but Christians live renewed lives. Nor does everyone live the same life or achieve the same. Some grow many fruits, some just a few, according to the grace of God. In glorification, at death, we are freed from the sin present in our flesh and become incapable of sinning, held up eternally by the omnipresent power of God.

I would basically agree with you. Yet here is the question. For the vast majority of Christians, are they finding that God does indeed change them? Are they taught the how of sanctification. We have been so taught that it is all God, that to do anything is to be found working for our salvation. They assume that sanctification is automatic.

But if we are honest, this is not the case. Most may become a. little nicer perhaps, but this is a far cry from being transformed and made full of holy fruit. So is there indeed something we must do in this process? Yes, there is, and it is not a work at all. We are to yield fully and to believe the promises and use them to ward off the attacks of Satan.

By and large, we do not believe we can yield fully or fully obey a Him because we are just sinners saved by grace. But there is the heart of our error. We simply do not believe we have been given new natures, and that we WERE sinners. We are told that we are no longer in the flesh and owe it nothing. We are told that the power of sin has been broken over us. We are told that He will keep us from falling. We are told that our shield of faith in these amazing, glorious truths is what keeps us from falling back into sin. But the hard truth is most do not believe it at all. And because of that, the church walks as newborns, even after decades of walking with God. Satan is given huge advantage, and because we see no real danger is this state, where sin is not defeated, it has hardened our hearts and led us into this Laodecian slumber, content with justification yet with no desire for sanctification. And we have stayed here so long, few even believe it possible, because after all...... "We are only human, right?"

All that is about to change, and not a moment to soon.

Blessings,

Gids

 

[Si_monfaith]

This is why the doctrine of imputation is so important. We are righteous because of Christ who we are joined to by faith. Thus even those who were "ungodly," or "worketh not" are counted righteous in the sight of God by faith in Christ, because it is Christ who fulfilled the law perfectly-- which we could never do (Rom 4:5). We are not righteous in and of ourselves when we are justified or enter into glory. We are all sinners, and thus incapable of being saved (if we were to be judged of ourselves). We are justified because we receive the imputation of Christ's righteousness, so that, though we are sinners, we are adopted into the heavenly kingdom and given all the rights of heirs as children of God.

However, most of your sentiment is correct: God does work in us both to "will and to do of His good pleasure." He does indeed place His law into our hearts, and "causes us to walk in them." Augustine puts it best:

"Can you say, 'We will first walk in His righteousness, and will observe His judgments, and will act in a worthy way, so that He will give His grace to us'? But what good would you evil people do? And how would you do those good things, unless you were yourselves good? But Who causes people to be good? Only He Who said, 'And I will visit them to make them good,' and, 'I will put my Spirit within you, and will cause you to walk in my righteousness, and to observe my judgments, and do them'(Ezek.36:27). Are you asleep? Can't you hear Him saying, 'I will cause you to walk, I will make you to observe,' lastly,'I will make you to do'? Really, are you still puffing yourselves up? We walk, true enough, and we observe, and we do; but it is God Who He makes us to walk, to observe, to do. This is the grace of God making us good; this is His mercy going before us." Augustine - Against Two Letters of the Pelagians, 4:15

Ultimately, salvation is entirely the work of God, with no part of man either adding or subtracting from the infallible working of God. We are justified by faith alone, and then, after our justification, God continues to work in us to will and to do of His good pleasure. But all that occurs after justification-- the moment of faith in Christ, which itself is the gift of God-- has to do with our sanctification. Righteousness does characterize Christ's followers, but it has nothing whatever to do with our justification or "earning" or "maintaining" our place in heaven. Righteousness is the gift of God to those He has already saved.

It is important to maintain the distinction between justification, sanctification and glorification. In justification we are made right in the sight of God, being sinners with no works to show for. In sanctification, God forms us into the people He wants us to be, growing in faithfulness and obedience year after year. We are not free from sin in this state, but Christians live renewed lives. Nor does everyone live the same life or achieve the same. Some grow many fruits, some just a few, according to the grace of God. In glorification, at death, we are freed from the sin present in our flesh and become incapable of sinning, held up eternally by the omnipresent power of God.

Does Lord put the law which He has set us free from, (rom7:6) into our hearts? No becz this law which gives knowledge of good & evil produces guilt.

Instead He puts the law (principle) of His grace by His blood into our hearts.

 

[Gideons300]

Does Lord put the law which He has set us free from, (rom7:6) into our hearts? No becz this law which gives knowledge of good & evil produces guilt.

Instead He puts the law (principle) of His grace by His blood into our hearts.

May I ask you a question? We are clearly told that real true grace will accomplish something in us. It will teach us that denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we are to live soberly, righteously and justly in this life. Do you see this occurring in the church? Are we becoming more and more godly in our actions, and more and more filled with selfless love as the years pass by?

Sadly, I think if one is honest, it must be admitted that this is far from the case. What we are seeing instead is a church that has redefined grace and is quite content with 'positional' holiness with little desire to be changed by God into vessels fit for the master's use. This is why the world looks on us as hypocrites. This is why God tells us that the children of darkness are wiser than the children of light.

Right now, there is a contentment without godliness and it looks far to similar to the attitude the church of Laodecian had. What is the solution to this? Honesty. Tears. Brokenness. Hunger. Then and only then will we be able to exercise faith. Until we break before Him, Heaven will be brass.

Do we want to wrap ourselves up in our assurances, convincing ourselves that all is well, even though our prayer closets are dark and lifeless? Do we not miss the sweetness of the assurances that our Heavenly Father once gave us? The dividing line in this valley of decision is coming into view, and it will NOT be our doctrine that determines it, nor our one time prayer. It will be our hearts, and whether we are longing for Him.

There is only one way out of the knowledge of good and evil which comes from the law. We must reckon ourselves dead to sin and alive to God. We must truly believe that we have been made new. But there is a hitch, and it is a biggie.

We must hate our life, full of our religious pride, our secret sins, with self always reigning supreme over the big decisions. We must hate our lifelessness. We must admit that we in no way are loving God with ALL of our hearts, and as to loving our neighbor as we love ourselves? I think we all know that answer. We must fall before our God, despising the flesh, our old self loving nature, and admit like Paul did in Romans 7 that we need a true deliverer from self. We must see ourselves as wretched men, and right now, pride is blinding us to our true state.

This is the painful part, but once we break, and in humility seek Him AND His righteousness, our God will not fail us. He is not demanding we work harder. But make no mistake, He is the only source of life, and our seeking Him, yielding to Him in all areas, crying out for Him to fill us, change us, free us from the prison of self we have grown content in, is the only way to be kept in these coming days of deep turmoil.

Blessings,

Gideon

 

[Si_monfaith]

May I ask you a question? We are clearly told that real true grace will accomplish something in us. It will teach us that denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we are to live soberly, righteously and justly in this life. Do you see this occurring in the church? Are we becoming more and more godly in our actions, and more and more filled with selfless love as the years pass by?

Sadly, I think if one is honest, it must be admitted that this is far from the case. What we are seeing instead is a church that has redefined grace and is quite content with 'positional' holiness with little desire to be changed by God into vessels fit for the master's use. This is why the world looks on us as hypocrites. This is why God tells us that the children of darkness are wiser than the children of light.

Right now, there is a contentment without godliness and it looks far to similar to the attitude the church of Laodecian had. What is the solution to this? Honesty. Tears. Brokenness. Hunger. Then and only then will we be able to exercise faith. Until we break before Him, Heaven will be brass.

Do we want to wrap ourselves up in our assurances, convincing ourselves that all is well, even though our prayer closets are dark and lifeless? Do we not miss the sweetness of the assurances that our Heavenly Father once gave us? The dividing line in this valley of decision is coming into view, and it will NOT be our doctrine that determines it, nor our one time prayer. It will be our hearts, and whether we are longing for Him.

There is only one way out of the knowledge of good and evil which comes from the law. We must reckon ourselves dead to sin and alive to God. We must truly believe that we have been made new. But there is a hitch, and it is a biggie.

We must hate our life, full of our religious pride, our secret sins, with self always reigning supreme over the big decisions. We must hate our lifelessness. We must admit that we in no way are loving God with ALL of our hearts, and as to loving our neighbor as we love ourselves? I think we all know that answer. We must fall before our God, despising the flesh, our old self loving nature, and admit like Paul did in Romans 7 that we need a true deliverer from self. We must see ourselves as wretched men, and right now, pride is blinding us to our true state.

This is the painful part, but once we break, and in humility seek Him AND His righteousness, our God will not fail us. He is not demanding we work harder. But make no mistake, He is the only source of life, and our seeking Him, yielding to Him in all areas, crying out for Him to fill us, change us, free us from the prison of self we have grown content in, is the only way to be kept in these coming days of deep turmoil.

Blessings,

Gideon

God's godliness is different from yours.

Your godliness presupposes kge.

But God's godliness is being nude & being free of guilt by avoiding the kge.

 

[Gideons300]

God's godliness is different from yours.

Your godliness presupposes kge.

But God's godliness is being nude & being free of guilt by avoiding the kge.

Brother,, I asked you a question in my last post. It would be helpful for this to be a productive discussion if you could answer.
I will try my bet to honestly answer any questions you might pose.

thanks in advance.

Gideon

 

[Si_monfaith]

Brother,, I asked you a question in my last post. It would be helpful for this to be a productive discussion if you could answer.
I will try my bet to honestly answer any questions you might pose.

thanks in advance.

Gideon

You can state your question.

Adam was under grace before he chose kge & he knew not what sin was (rom3:20).

Similarly if grace works thru you, you will not confess that you know sin but rather confess what Jesus accomplished.

You cannot die to sin without first dying to law in Christ. Becz it is law which revives sin in you (rom 7:9).

Hope i have answered.

 

[Gideons300]

You can state your question.

Adam was under grace before he chose kge & he knew not what sin was (rom3:20).

Similarly if grace works thru you, you will not confess that you know sin but rather confess what Jesus accomplished.

You cannot die to sin without first dying to law in Christ. Becz it is law which revives sin in you (rom 7:9).

Hope i have answered.

So here is my question.... again. Based upon what you are sharing, do you see it working in the church.... in your church..... in you? I do not mean to get personal, I assure you. I am simply trying to see whether this is theory or if it works in real life.

Do you see men and women who are believing as you believe being changed before your eyes from worldly to sojourners? Do you see men longing to become living sacrifices for Christ? Do you see them shed sinful behaviors that once ruled over them? Does the agape selfless love for others displace self love in the hearts of men?

I pray you do not think this an attack. It is far from that. The world is waiting for a Christianity that is more than words. Multitudes of seekers want something that will set them free from THEM, and theoretical doctrines where we assure ourselves all is well based upon some teaching we are memorizing and then regurgitating is not what people need. They want something that works, and up till now, we as Christians have talked much of love for God and love for others, but the sad truth most will refuse to acknowledge is that what we possess is not what possessed the believers in the first century church. Honesty is needed here by all who read these worlds, honesty with ourselves most of all.

It is time we all dig deep, far deeper than we have ever dug before. We stand at the edge of eternity, and the fate of or friends, our families, our children, our co-workers,and yes, even our own fate is at stake. We say we have the answer, and say we believe in both an eternal heaven and eternal hell, whatever form each may take. Yet we walk on in our daily lives as if all is well, and remain oblivious to the hypocrisy of our lives when held up against what we say we believe.

The valley of decision awaits us, like it or not. It is a valley we will enter alone. No minister to hold our hand, no like-minded church friends there for moral support to assure us. No theoretical doctrines to comfort us. It will be us and a clear choicewill be required.

Do we love the right to sin and retain self-rule and to partake of this world, or do we love the Lord with ALL of our hearts, no matter the cost to us?

Make no mistake, to fully come to grips with the choice and what that entails, tears will most likely fall. We entering he valley as Christians thinking it an easy choice. It will not be. The cost of getting through this valley is hating our old life, our self loving nature, our "right" to determine right and wrong. We sing "All to Jesus I surrender". That will be testing in the valley heading our way. To true sheep, the choice to walk as light in the Lord will reap amazing life altering rewards in this life, and that is but the beginning of what our God has for us. But to those who scoff, and refuse the basis of our salvation.... His life for ours..... the deception will grow to depths we cannot even now imagine.

True sheep know when they are sinning, for the Holy Spirit chastens them. We have devised all sorts of ways to shut out that guilt. We have shut our eyes to clear warnings given to us, and convinced ourselves that for one reason or another, these loving warnings to not be deceived are always meant for someone not named US. We have convinced ourselves that repentance and obedience are no longer an integral part of maintaining our relationship with Christ, and the deception has slowly but surely taken hold. We have convinced ourselves that if all our brothers and sisters in our church are saying it is ok to continue in sin, then surely God is saying so as well, right? We have redefined grace to the point where we are convinced that our sin actually magnifies God's goodness even more. May God awaken us! And as our sweet fellowship with Jesus in prayer that once was sweet and intimate slowly became form and doctrine rather than the joy of truly abiding in Him, we have assured ourselves that thats the way marriages go. The honeymoon ends and we settle in for the long haul. And our darkness gets darker still. And the angels weep.

Because of our shutting our ears to the voice of the Spirit warning us, because we have left the clear words God has given to us and heaped to ourselves teachers that say sin is no longer an issue because of grace, just as foretold, our hearts have become hardened, and our eyes have become blind. May God move in these last days to awaken us to the danger we are in, and to the need for heart rending crying out to save us from the great deception that has been hoisted upon us. If we hold onto sin, if we refuse to let God into ALL the rooms of our heart, if we dig in our heels and try to have our cake and eat it to, refusing to make a clear choice to bow the knee in ALL things and to serve our awesome God with all that is within us, we will have unknowingly already made our choice.

May we know that our God loves us, and that He will deliver us from evil..... all of it.... IF we want to be delivered. There will be no deals with the devil here. Ignorance will not be an excuse any longer. The clear word of the Lord will go out, and the highway of holiness will open up in its full glory to all who long for it, who want to please God with every single choice that they make. I pray that all who read these words let them sink in in their eternal importance, and that our yieldedness to the master potter is finally truly complete. It is His job to change us, weak and weary saints. He will not fail us. But first we must awake to righteousness, and our lack of it, and seek not positional holiness, but give God no rest till our feet are planted on the overcomers highway.

May you all be blessed.

Gideon

 

[singpeace]

Much confusion and disagreement has resulted from this debate of law versus grace. On the one hand, there is no denying that scriptures clearly tell us that it is those who obey Him who are saved. On the other, it is not by works of righteousness that determines our salvation. These seem totally contradictory, and has forced the saints to choose one side or another.

May I share a different perspective and n this matter?

What if God actually did for us what He clearly promised He would do for us in the new covenant? Yes, of course, if we sin, and repent and ask forgiveness, He graciously answers. But there is more, and our eyes in these last days are about to be opened to it.

Bear with me. There are two places in the Old Testament where God clearly lays out what He will do for us under the new. One is Jeremiah 31. The other is in Ezekiel 36. And when we read His clear words to us in Ezekiel 36, we find something that is so amazing, so unheard of, so wonderful, that if it is true, it would literally turn our lives upside down. And what is it?

"... and I will cause you to walk in my statutes."

Obedience under the Old Testament was the requirement. "Obey my voice and I will be your God and you will be my people". It is summed up by this.

DO AND YOU SHALL LIVE.

But praise God, not so under the new. God says He will actually cause us to obey Him. Obedience, the requirement under the old, is given freely to us under the new. Does He not say that He will keep us from falling? That our shields off faith would quench ALL of the fiery arrows of the enemy? That no matter the temptation, He would make a way of escape?

Let me ask you, what good is a way of escape if we choose again and again not to take it? We would be no better off than those under the old covenant, But if God actually causes us to take it, it changes everything. Thus, the summation of the new covenant is

LIVE AND YOU SHALL DO.

But if this is the case, why is it not working? Why do we still disobey? Why do we fall? It is simple.

According to our faith be it unto us.

We have been blinded to the second half of the new covenant ever since the grievous wolves Paul told us about entered the church after. his death. The former rain was over, and the church, once walking is purity and power and filled with a love that could not be shaken, lost its way. Religion replaced overcoming life. What followed was 1900 years of drought with but a few intermittent showers. But in these last days, God is waking us to the lost truth. Obedience is promised under the new covenant. He asks but one thing.

Believe Him.

So where are we now? We as His church, no matter the denomination, are currently not believing it to be true. Heck, we do not even believe it is possible! In fact we think overcoming disobedience is impossible. Why? Because we still think it is on OUR shoulders to do it. And if it were, we would be correct. But we are not.

And because of our error... our unbelief... we either have had to adopt a gospel where we can freely disobey and still make Heaven our home, or we are forced back under the law of self effort, trying to be Holy, where we either fail miserably, or we get religiously proud like the Pharisees and look down on the weaklings who can't do it. Both ways are in error, for neither is the way of faith in the promises of God.

A new day is dawning. We are awakening to righteousness..... His inside of us. We are awakening to the truth that we are not trying to walk as new men. We ARE new men. No more will we think we need self control to get the fruits of the Spirit. We will finally see that self control IS a fruit of the Spirit! God inside us causes us to walk as children of light, but only when we finally see that the old us is dead....right now.....today.

A new day is dawning, dear brother. Confusion is about to be swept away, as we arm ourselves with truth, and thus are enabled to overcome the world, the flesh, and the devil. How? By faith. The latter rain is coming, and the church is about to arise from the deadness of religious service and have its feet planted ON the highway of holiness, not towards it. The church of the book of ACts turned the entire world upside down in one generation. Men would exclaim "Behold how they love one another!" Now get this. Our Heavenly Father tells us that the latter rain will be greater than the for,mer!!we are about to be overtaken with a blessing that our minds and hearts can scarcely imagine. Buckle your seatbelt. We are in for a big surprise.

I pray this helps.

Blessings,

Gideon

The Law was not evil. It served as a mirror to reveal the condition of a person’s heart (Romans 7:7). John 1:17 says, “For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.” Jesus embodied the perfect balance between grace and the Law (John 1:14).

God has always been full of grace (Psalm 116:5; Joel 2:13), and people have always been saved by faith in God (Genesis 15:6). God did not change between the Old and New Testaments (Numbers 23:19; Psalm 55:19). The same God who gave the Law also gave Jesus (John 3:16). His grace was demonstrated through the Law by providing the sacrificial system to cover sin. Jesus was born “under the law” (Galatians 4:4) and became the final sacrifice to bring the Law to fulfillment and establish the New Covenant (Luke 22:20). Now, everyone who comes to God through Christ is declared righteous (2 Corinthians 5:21; 1 Peter 3:18; Hebrews 9:15).



-got questions

 

[Hoghead1]

The Law was not evil. It served as a mirror to reveal the condition of a person’s heart (Romans 7:7). John 1:17 says, “For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.” Jesus embodied the perfect balance between grace and the Law (John 1:14).

God has always been full of grace (Psalm 116:5; Joel 2:13), and people have always been saved by faith in God (Genesis 15:6). God did not change between the Old and New Testaments (Numbers 23:19; Psalm 55:19). The same God who gave the Law also gave Jesus (John 3:16). His grace was demonstrated through the Law by providing the sacrificial system to cover sin. Jesus was born “under the law” (Galatians 4:4) and became the final sacrifice to bring the Law to fulfillment and establish the New Covenant (Luke 22:20). Now, everyone who comes to God through Christ is declared righteous (2 Corinthians 5:21; 1 Peter 3:18; Hebrews 9:15).
Yes, but in around 100 passages, the Bible does attribute change to God, e.g., Gen. 6:5, Hosea 11:8. The idea of a wholly immutable God comes largely from the influx of Hellenic philosophy and ideals of perfection.



-got questions

 

[Si_monfaith]

So here is my question.... again. Based upon what you are sharing, do you see it working in the church.... in your church..... in you? I do not mean to get personal, I assure you. I am simply trying to see whether this is theory or if it works in real life.

Do you see men and women who are believing as you believe being changed before your eyes from worldly to sojourners? Do you see men longing to become living sacrifices for Christ? Do you see them shed sinful behaviors that once ruled over them? Does the agape selfless love for others displace self love in the hearts of men?

I pray you do not think this an attack. It is far from that. The world is waiting for a Christianity that is more than words. Multitudes of seekers want something that will set them free from THEM, and theoretical doctrines where we assure ourselves all is well based upon some teaching we are memorizing and then regurgitating is not what people need. They want something that works, and up till now, we as Christians have talked much of love for God and love for others, but the sad truth most will refuse to acknowledge is that what we possess is not what possessed the believers in the first century church. Honesty is needed here by all who read these worlds, honesty with ourselves most of all.

It is time we all dig deep, far deeper than we have ever dug before. We stand at the edge of eternity, and the fate of or friends, our families, our children, our co-workers,and yes, even our own fate is at stake. We say we have the answer, and say we believe in both an eternal heaven and eternal hell, whatever form each may take. Yet we walk on in our daily lives as if all is well, and remain oblivious to the hypocrisy of our lives when held up against what we say we believe.

The valley of decision awaits us, like it or not. It is a valley we will enter alone. No minister to hold our hand, no like-minded church friends there for moral support to assure us. No theoretical doctrines to comfort us. It will be us and a clear choicewill be required.

Do we love the right to sin and retain self-rule and to partake of this world, or do we love the Lord with ALL of our hearts, no matter the cost to us?

Make no mistake, to fully come to grips with the choice and what that entails, tears will most likely fall. We entering he valley as Christians thinking it an easy choice. It will not be. The cost of getting through this valley is hating our old life, our self loving nature, our "right" to determine right and wrong. We sing "All to Jesus I surrender". That will be testing in the valley heading our way. To true sheep, the choice to walk as light in the Lord will reap amazing life altering rewards in this life, and that is but the beginning of what our God has for us. But to those who scoff, and refuse the basis of our salvation.... His life for ours..... the deception will grow to depths we cannot even now imagine.

True sheep know when they are sinning, for the Holy Spirit chastens them. We have devised all sorts of ways to shut out that guilt. We have shut our eyes to clear warnings given to us, and convinced ourselves that for one reason or another, these loving warnings to not be deceived are always meant for someone not named US. We have convinced ourselves that repentance and obedience are no longer an integral part of maintaining our relationship with Christ, and the deception has slowly but surely taken hold. We have convinced ourselves that if all our brothers and sisters in our church are saying it is ok to continue in sin, then surely God is saying so as well, right? We have redefined grace to the point where we are convinced that our sin actually magnifies God's goodness even more. May God awaken us! And as our sweet fellowship with Jesus in prayer that once was sweet and intimate slowly became form and doctrine rather than the joy of truly abiding in Him, we have assured ourselves that thats the way marriages go. The honeymoon ends and we settle in for the long haul. And our darkness gets darker still. And the angels weep.

Because of our shutting our ears to the voice of the Spirit warning us, because we have left the clear words God has given to us and heaped to ourselves teachers that say sin is no longer an issue because of grace, just as foretold, our hearts have become hardened, and our eyes have become blind. May God move in these last days to awaken us to the danger we are in, and to the need for heart rending crying out to save us from the great deception that has been hoisted upon us. If we hold onto sin, if we refuse to let God into ALL the rooms of our heart, if we dig in our heels and try to have our cake and eat it to, refusing to make a clear choice to bow the knee in ALL things and to serve our awesome God with all that is within us, we will have unknowingly already made our choice.

May we know that our God loves us, and that He will deliver us from evil..... all of it.... IF we want to be delivered. There will be no deals with the devil here. Ignorance will not be an excuse any longer. The clear word of the Lord will go out, and the highway of holiness will open up in its full glory to all who long for it, who want to please God with every single choice that they make. I pray that all who read these words let them sink in in their eternal importance, and that our yieldedness to the master potter is finally truly complete. It is His job to change us, weak and weary saints. He will not fail us. But first we must awake to righteousness, and our lack of it, and seek not positional holiness, but give God no rest till our feet are planted on the overcomers highway.

May you all be blessed.

Gideon

You have not believed in Jesus' works to give you salvation, entrance to heaven & rewards in heaven.

You believe that His works can give only the first. For the remaining two you believe in your works.

You are only a one-third believer & not a whole believer.

 

[Gideons300]

You have not believed in Jesus' works to give you salvation, entrance to heaven & rewards in heaven.

You believe that His works can give only the first. For the remaining two you believe in your works.

You are only a one-third believer & not a whole believer.

Brother, I have simply asked a question that you seem bent on not answering directly. Unless you are willing to clearly discuss this, do you not see that Your mis-direction is revealing the very answer you are avoiding giving? I have made myself clear that the "work" you are telling me I a, doing is not a work at all, but rather a total yieldedness and faith in His promises to keep us from sin and change us so that we do not want to. I can provide scriptures if you like to show that both of these are asked for by our Father, and as well, scriptures where God clearly promises the results.

Now, will you clearly answer the question posed to you or not? If you cannot answer that such faith that you espouse is actually bringing about spiritual fruits and that it is actually making you a victor over the sins that once bound you, then what you are espousing is theory, not truth.

The true gospel works. We are not given bus passes to Heaven yet still left sitting in our prison cells and told to believe we are free indeed while all the while, we remain bound to sins and self love like spiritual balls and chains.

Jesus said that he that commits sin is still a slave to sin. He promised to make us free indeed. But the only way we can walk in this amazing grace is first to admit we are not there and need it desperately.

Do you not see that these "positional" teachings that never actually bring real results are satan's way of keeping us from digging deep so that we may finally cry out like Paul did as a wretched man who hated his old nature so that we are finally truly set free as Jesus promised? Real freedom is being able to walk out of our cells, and when Satan attacks again, and he will, be able by faith in who Christ has made us, hold up our shield of faith and quench every arrow he shoots at us. Not some of them. Not occasionally. Every single one. Every single time.

That is the full gospel, and our eyes are about to be opened to how good and powerful our God really is.Bless you, brother

Gids

 

[Gideons300]

The Law was not evil. It served as a mirror to reveal the condition of a person’s heart (Romans 7:7). John 1:17 says, “For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.” Jesus embodied the perfect balance between grace and the Law (John 1:14).

God has always been full of grace (Psalm 116:5; Joel 2:13), and people have always been saved by faith in God (Genesis 15:6). God did not change between the Old and New Testaments (Numbers 23:19; Psalm 55:19). The same God who gave the Law also gave Jesus (John 3:16). His grace was demonstrated through the Law by providing the sacrificial system to cover sin. Jesus was born “under the law” (Galatians 4:4) and became the final sacrifice to bring the Law to fulfillment and establish the New Covenant (Luke 22:20). Now, everyone who comes to God through Christ is declared righteous (2 Corinthians 5:21; 1 Peter 3:18; Hebrews 9:15).



-got questions

i will then pose the same question to you. In this positional righteousness, can a man remain in willful known sin and remain saved anyway. Please provide scriptural references for these as well. Thanks.

Gideon