killing and murdering

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hisgrace26

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Can somebody tell me the difference between the KJ "thou shall not kill" vs other modern translation "thou shall not murder"? Generally human kill other human. This can be argued that mass killings is done by human. However, if I say that human kill other human being because God commanded them and gave the concept/instruction to kill, would God then be blame for the killings? The confusion lies between the definition of "killing" and "murdering". Killing may not be the correct word to apply to God, but for what reason and why shouldn't it be? How is God justify in killing? Just a little bit confused. Thanks in advance for clarifying.
 

Annoula

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i am not sure i can help but allow me a post.

killing is an action done with no intent.
eg. i run over a man with my car and i killed him. (by mistake)
i killed him. (metaphorically speaking, i killed a man's heart by rejecting him)

murder is an action done with the intention to deceit.

regarding God and killing.
i can't accept the notion that God will command the killing or murdering of innocent people.
He may allow killings or murders, because we live in a fallen word characterized of death, but He will judge immolators and victims accordingly.

i hope that helped.
take care!
 
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H

hisgrace26

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i am not sure i can help but allow me a post.

killing is an action done with no intent.
eg. i run over a man with my car and i killed him. (by mistake)
i killed him. (metaphorically speaking, i killed a man's heart by rejecting him)

But God killed with intent didn't he? So that's murder?

murder is an action done with the intention to deceit.

regarding God and killing.
i can't accept the notion that God will command the killing or murdering of innocent people.
He may allow killings or murders, because we live in a fallen word characterized of death, but He will judge immolators and victims accordingly.

i hope that helped.
take care!

How about God killing innocent child through diseases and cancer who did not know about Jesus and died young? Also, killings is done through human, but God gave them the concept of killing so God is to be blame on that too.
 
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Sketcher

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The difference is in the Hebrew, and for a good reason - God said to execute some people in circumstances he predefined. God is not self-contradictory. He doesn't tell his people to not do something and then turn around and tell them to do the very thing he told them not to do. Executing a deserving criminal after a fair trial with at least two competent witnesses - which is the Law's standard for execution - is entirely different than walking up to someone you don't like and killing him.
 
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Harry3142

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In the KJV the word for taking another person's life in battle was 'slay', while the word for taking another person's life in order to get what he had (such as a bandit) was 'kill'.

As for what happened to the Canaanites, that was how wars were waged in that era. The troops invaded the city, wiped out everyone who lived there, and then left. Archeologists only a few years ago found a city buried under the sand. When they excavated it, they realized that there were bodies still lying in its streets. An invading army had attacked the city, killed its inhabitants, and then moved on, leaving it for the desert to bury.

Moses, the leader and commander-in-chief of the Hebrews, would have known how to fight this kind of war. According to Josephus' Jewish Antiquities Moses was a general in pharaoh's army, and had himself led that army into battle in Ethiopia, crushing an uprising there. Having been adopted by pharaoh's daughter, and if the suspicions of many of us are correct also a pharaoh's wife and Queen of Egypt herself, Moses would have learned egyptian military tactics and weaponry. He would also have been indoctrinated in their mindset, namely, if you have to attack a city, make an example of it for all other cities to fear. Egypt didn't become the most powerful ancient kingdom by being nice guys.

It would have been this type of warfare that Moses would have taught the ragtag mob that was the Hebrew nation once he got them out of Egypt. We look on it with a sense of horror, but think nothing of dropping bombs from 25,000 feet that we know will take the lives of 10's of thousands of people. It is said that the attack on Tokyo in 1945 that created a massive firestorm, killing well over 100,000 people (and according to a survivor of it whose son I personally knew killed closer to 500,000), took more lives by itself than were taken in all of the wars fought before the time of Christ.

In the 'for what it's worth' category, there are those of us who believe that the person identified as 'pharaoh's daughter' was Hatshepsut, daughter of a pharaoh, chief wife of a pharaoh, Queen of Egypt, and eventually the only female to successfully take the title of 'pharaoh' herself. She would have had the clout to save Moses. She is also the person whom we believe named him (Moses' is the hebraicized version of 'Thutmose', the name of Hatshepsut's father, husband, and stepson).
 
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hisgrace26

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The difference is in the Hebrew, and for a good reason - God said to execute some people in circumstances he predefined. God is not self-contradictory. He doesn't tell his people to not do something and then turn around and tell them to do the very thing he told them not to do. Executing a deserving criminal after a fair trial with at least two competent witnesses - which is the Law's standard for execution - is entirely different than walking up to someone you don't like and killing him.

That's a very good point. I can learn from that. How about God killing children with diseases? Children are dying all around the world because of that. Seem like God give them no chance to accept Jesus at all, they died before even know Jesus.
 
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zaksmummy

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Have you read what's on the Bible? God was ok with killing everyone who didn't believe him.
"Thou shall not kill" means: thou shall not kill your neighbor. and your neighbor means anyone who believes the same god (according to some authors).
The god of BC was a nasty and cruel guy.

The question you need to ask yourself is why did God ask for these people to be killed?

When you know the answer to that question you will know the character of God a little better.
 
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Annoula

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we live in a fallen world. pain, sorrow, disease and death are the "physiological" characteristics of this world.

age is important for us, not for the Ultimate Being Who created all creation. what is important for God is our soul's state.
He knows our soul's state and allows disease or whatever else accordingly.
 
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Sketcher

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That's a very good point. I can learn from that. How about God killing children with diseases? Children are dying all around the world because of that. Seem like God give them no chance to accept Jesus at all, they died before even know Jesus.

Well, that's a completely different question, since we're talking about God taking life, which he has the right to do, vs. people taking life wantonly. We must remember that
1) God has the power to bring them back if he wishes
2) God cares for them more than a lot of people give him credit for. He made them (Jonah 4:10-11), he celebrates wildly when one lost person repents and comes to him (Luke 15). Certainly more than most people who don't give these children a second thought, unless they're asking this question.
3) Jesus preached to at least some people who never heard of him in their lifetimes when he was dead (1 Peter 3:19). How many is uncertain, but I do not believe it is outside the realm of possibility that these children get their fair chance to repent and believe, one way or the other.
 
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drich0150

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That's a very good point. I can learn from that. How about God killing children with diseases? Children are dying all around the world because of that. Seem like God give them no chance to accept Jesus at all, they died before even know Jesus.

Death is only a "bad thing" to those who are made to fear His coming judgment. Death in reality is one's birth into eternity. We are told many times Children do not have to be afraid of their God.

However The wicked are another matter.
 
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hisgrace26

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Well, that's a completely different question, since we're talking about God taking life, which he has the right to do, vs. people taking life wantonly. We must remember that
1) God has the power to bring them back if he wishes
2) God cares for them more than a lot of people give him credit for. He made them (Jonah 4:10-11), he celebrates wildly when one lost person repents and comes to him (Luke 15). Certainly more than most people who don't give these children a second thought, unless they're asking this question.
3) Jesus preached to at least some people who never heard of him in their lifetimes when he was dead (1 Peter 3:19). How many is uncertain, but I do not believe it is outside the realm of possibility that these children get their fair chance to repent and believe, one way or the other.

Ok, so why is it OK for God to killed people during the caananites/old testament? Don't forget the babies as well.
 
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drich0150

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Ok, so why is it OK for God to killed people during the caananites/old testament? Don't forget the babies as well.

For the same reason He will also call you to die. (as well as the rest of us) To judge the wicked. What does it matter if it is now or 100 years from now?

For the babies it was an act of mercy. Do you think the wicked are respecters of babies or the young?
 
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hisgrace26

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For the same reason He will also call you to die. (as well as the rest of us) To judge the wicked. What does it matter if it is now or 100 years from now?

For the babies it was an act of mercy. Do you think the wicked are respecters of babies or the young?

Call to die? I thought God want us saved and then He go around killing people? That defeats His own purpose.
 
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drich0150

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Call to die? I thought God want us saved
Do the "Saved" not die? (they do) This means that physical death and Salvation have nothing to do with each other.

and then He go around killing people? That defeats His own purpose.
how so?
 
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hisgrace26

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Do the "Saved" not die? (they do) This means that physical death and Salvation have nothing to do with each other.


how so?

Ok... So everybody will die then that means everybody will be saved, which violate scriptures. Because to be saved the person has to believe in the gospel. Killing pple off like that doesn't work because people then can't believe. So you're saying God killed them to saved them? Doesn't make sense. Why not just let them live and accept the gospel and do whatever?
 
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Sketcher

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Ok, so why is it OK for God to killed people during the caananites/old testament? Don't forget the babies as well.

He's God. He has the right to take whatever lives he wants. He's the Creator. He's the King. All rights come from him.
 
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hisgrace26

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He's God. He has the right to take whatever lives he wants. He's the Creator. He's the King. All rights come from him.

So He can take whatever He want?? God cannot do that for no reason. If God did that for no reason how are you sure you're following a good God who "do watever He want" and can lied that Jesus didn't died - Muslim were right after all then. So what was the reason he killed them babies?
 
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