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Jesus said, 'that they may be one, even as we are one'.

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by MoreCoffee, Mar 4, 2013.

  1. MoreCoffee

    MoreCoffee O God,come to my aid.O Lord,make haste to help me. Supporter CF Ambassador

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    Jesus prayed a prayer that saint John the evangelist recorded in these words,
    "Father, the hour has come; glorify thy Son that the Son may glorify thee, since thou hast given him power over all flesh, to give eternal life to all whom thou hast given him. And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent. I glorified thee on earth, having accomplished the work which thou gavest me to do; and now, Father, glorify thou me in thy own presence with the glory which I had with thee before the world was made.

    "I have manifested thy name to the men whom thou gavest me out of the world; thine they were, and thou gavest them to me, and they have kept thy word. Now they know that everything that thou hast given me is from thee; for I have given them the words which thou gavest me, and they have received them and know in truth that I came from thee; and they have believed that thou didst send me. I am praying for them; I am not praying for the world but for those whom thou hast given me, for they are thine; all mine are thine, and thine are mine, and I am glorified in them. And now I am no more in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to thee. Holy Father, keep them in thy name, which thou hast given me, that they may be one, even as we are one. While I was with them, I kept them in thy name, which thou hast given me; I have guarded them, and none of them is lost but the son of perdition, that the scripture might be fulfilled. But now I am coming to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they may have my joy fulfilled in themselves. I have given them thy word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. I do not pray that thou shouldst take them out of the world, but that thou shouldst keep them from the evil one. They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. Sanctify them in the truth; thy word is truth. As thou didst send me into the world, so I have sent them into the world. And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be consecrated in truth.

    "I do not pray for these only, but also for those who believe in me through their word, that they may all be one; even as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. The glory which thou hast given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, I in them and thou in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that thou hast sent me and hast loved them even as thou hast loved me. Father, I desire that they also, whom thou hast given me, may be with me where I am, to behold my glory which thou hast given me in thy love for me before the foundation of the world. O righteous Father, the world has not known thee, but I have known thee; and these know that thou hast sent me. I made known to them thy name, and I will make it known, that the love with which thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them."

    (John 17:1-25 RSV-CE)

    The prayer is, of course, fulfilled in the church but those who make up the church are a mixture of good and bad, this is as it must be until the time for judgement comes. This is how the Lord said it will be when he spoke the parables of the kingdom. 'the kingdom of heaven is like a net which was thrown into the sea and gathered fish of every kind; when it was full, men drew it ashore and sat down and sorted the good into vessels but threw away the bad. So it will be at the close of the age. The angels will come out and separate the evil from the righteous, and throw them into the furnace of fire; there men will weep and gnash their teeth.'

    The Church is one because of her source: "the highest exemplar and source of this mystery is the unity, in the Trinity of Persons, of one God, the Father and the Son in the Holy Spirit." The Church is one because of her founder: for "the Word made flesh, the prince of peace, reconciled all men to God by the cross,... restoring the unity of all in one people and one body." The Church is one because of her "soul": "It is the Holy Spirit, dwelling in those who believe and pervading and ruling over the entire Church, who brings about that wonderful communion of the faithful and joins them together so intimately in Christ that he is the principle of the Church’s unity." Unity is of the essence of the Church:
    What an astonishing mystery! There is one Father of the universe, one Logos of the universe, and also one Holy Spirit, everywhere one and the same; there is also one virgin become mother, and I should like to call her “Church.”​
    From the beginning, this one Church has been marked by a great diversity which comes from both the variety of God’s gifts and the diversity of those who receive them. Within the unity of the People of God, a multiplicity of peoples and cultures is gathered together. Among the Church’s members, there are different gifts, offices, conditions, and ways of life. "Holding a rightful place in the communion of the Church there are also particular Churches that retain their own traditions." The great richness of such diversity is not opposed to the Church’s unity. Yet sin and the burden of its consequences constantly threaten the gift of unity. And so the Apostle has to exhort Christians to "maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace."

    What are these bonds of unity? Above all, charity "binds everything together in perfect harmony." But the unity of the pilgrim Church is also assured by visible bonds of communion:
    • profession of one faith received from the Apostles
    • common celebration of divine worship, especially of the sacraments;
    • apostolic succession through the sacrament of Holy Orders, maintaining the fraternal concord of God’s family.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2013
  2. annier

    annier Guest

    Thank you for this lovely post. It really struck me personally in that Jesus actually prayed for me.
     
  3. MoreCoffee

    MoreCoffee O God,come to my aid.O Lord,make haste to help me. Supporter CF Ambassador

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    It is encouraging to know that he did. And, you are most welcome.

    :)
     
  4. bugkiller

    bugkiller Active Member

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    And we are divided because of vanity as the chief cause. I am calling vanity sin in the matters before us. But then I also believe heresy is important to show the contrast to the truth. It helps us recognize the truth.

    bugkiller
     
  5. MoreCoffee

    MoreCoffee O God,come to my aid.O Lord,make haste to help me. Supporter CF Ambassador

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    It is deeper than vanity, I think. Many people are vain and are not creating their own denominations or their own independent religious community.
     
  6. MoreCoffee

    MoreCoffee O God,come to my aid.O Lord,make haste to help me. Supporter CF Ambassador

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    This thread is about unity as Jesus prayed for it. But it isn't full of useless fighting so it is not popular. This is the irony of human nature.
     
  7. Rev Randy

    Rev Randy Sometimes I pretend to be normal

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    [​IMG]
     
  8. Eseven

    Eseven Newbie

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    The parable of the sower doesn't support church division, the field is the world not the church




    Paul doesnt condone division in the church.




    Paul doesn't condone willful unrepentant sin in the church.


     
  9. MoreCoffee

    MoreCoffee O God,come to my aid.O Lord,make haste to help me. Supporter CF Ambassador

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    Yes, that's right. But what has that got to do with the Original Post? Nobody mentioned the parable of the sower but you.
    Yes, that is true. It has nothing to do with anything written in this thread.
     
  10. Thekla

    Thekla Guest

    This is a bump :)
    (if I commit to involvement in one more thread, we'll be in shipwreck status here at home in no time)
     
  11. MoreCoffee

    MoreCoffee O God,come to my aid.O Lord,make haste to help me. Supporter CF Ambassador

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    I'd absolve you, Thekla, if I could ;)
     
  12. Thekla

    Thekla Guest

    ^_^

    well, thank-you !
    :hug:
     
  13. Eseven

    Eseven Newbie

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    Your post above makes it relevant. But i wont argue with you, so good day.
     
  14. MoreCoffee

    MoreCoffee O God,come to my aid.O Lord,make haste to help me. Supporter CF Ambassador

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    Just human nature on display. ...

    No fight no interest I reckon.
     
  15. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Compassion is the basis of the teachings . Supporter

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    This is another thing that Jesus declared about his church . that they'd be one as he and the Father are so that the whole world would know Jesus came from God . that i look at .. and i'm like .. it's obvious the way we're teaching people is bringing this out in them . or perhaps only to me . perhaps his church is elsewhere

    love this passage . one of the ways i discovered the worldwide church everywhere .
     
  16. MoreCoffee

    MoreCoffee O God,come to my aid.O Lord,make haste to help me. Supporter CF Ambassador

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    Me too, so I became a member of the Church.
     
  17. Zeek

    Zeek Follower of Messiah, Israel advocate and Zionist

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    Membership is automatic, the credentials to be a memeber are to repent, believe and be baptised into the Body...so whatever flavour of Christianity you are part of the Body over which no organisation, institution or religious group has any monopoly...Jesus is the Head.
     
  18. Ignatius21

    Ignatius21 Can somebody please pass the incense?

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    MoreCoffee, I enjoyed your OP. And I agree with it. I do pray for reunion of churches.

    And yes, those that aren't filled with useless fighting are never popular here. If you want to get more involvement, just assert (a) the Calvinist God is mean or (b) the Arminian God is wimpy, then sit back and enjoy the popcorn.

    However, I do have one question for you...what kind of discussion were you hoping to generate? Your OP was well phrased but not really posted as a question so much as a statement, and one that just about any Christian would agree with, so long as they define (or redefine) the terms you use as criteria for unity.
     
  19. MoreCoffee

    MoreCoffee O God,come to my aid.O Lord,make haste to help me. Supporter CF Ambassador

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    I didn't want to ask a question. My intend was to let scripture make a statement. And to add a little reflection to the statement of scripture.

    What I hope for is that some, perhaps many, will recognise that Jesus wants unity and stop all the pointless fighting.
     
  20. Albion

    Albion Senior Contributor

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    You know the answer, I assume. No, there was no question. It was testimony, not an invitation for discussion. It was witnessing that he joined the Roman Catholic Church and everyone else who agrees to the idea of Christian unity ought to do the same since it's the only real church.
     
    Eseven likes this.