Jesus did not come to destroy the law

[fli]

To obey His commands.

 

[fli]

If you love your brethren as you love yourself, you have to answer the question about Christians and the sabbath. If Christians have to keep the 10 commandments there may be some that need to know.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

If you love your brethren as you love yourself, you have to answer the question about Christians and the sabbath. If Christians have to keep the 10 commandments there may be some that need to know.

Yes, it was answered here.... Jesus did not come to destroy the law

It's why we share the forgotten commandment- God asked us to Remember because breaking one commandment, is like breaking them all James 2:10-12. Most people accept the 9 commandments but have a hard time giving up their time on the Sabbath to dedicate to God for some reason when God just wants to spend time with us and to bless and sanctify us.

 

[fli]

Yes, it was answered here.... Jesus did not come to destroy the law

It's why we share the forgotten commandment- God asked us to Remember because breaking one commandment, is like breaking them all James 2:10-12. Most people accept the 9 commandments but have a hard time giving up their time on the Sabbath to dedicate to God for some reason when God just wants to spend time with us and to bless and sanctify us.

1 Corinthians 11:27 Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. 30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world. NKJV

Paul states that the drunks above were chastened for their actions. Jesus made them sick and put some of them to sleep. Putting them to sleep means they died under discipline.

Hebrews 12:5 And you have forgotten the exhortation which speaks to you as to sons: "My son, do not despise the chastening of the Lord, Nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by Him; 6 For whom the Lord loves He chastens, And scourges every son whom He receives." NKJV


Verse 6 God chastens those He loves. Therefore, He loves the drunks. He scourges every son He receives. Scourge means to punish with severity. He punished with sickness until they died. I would say a punishment of sickness resulting in death would qualify as scourging.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

1 Corinthians 11:27 Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. 30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world. NKJV

Paul states that the drunks above were chastened for their actions. Jesus made them sick and put some of them to sleep. Putting them to sleep means they died under discipline.

Hebrews 12:5 And you have forgotten the exhortation which speaks to you as to sons: "My son, do not despise the chastening of the Lord, Nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by Him; 6 For whom the Lord loves He chastens, And scourges every son whom He receives." NKJV


Verse 6 God chastens those He loves. Therefore, He loves the drunks. He scourges every son He receives. Scourge means to punish with severity. He punished with sickness until they died. I would say a punishment of sickness resulting in death would qualify as scourging.

Yes, He does- He calls on us daily out of our rebellion to Him Heb 3:7-8 but will we listen?
We should not delay when He calls.... its what the other spirit wants us to do, I will obey tomorrow.

Psa 119:160 I made haste, and did not delay To keep Your commandments.

When Jesus comes in the Clouds, which I believe is soon, there will be no more second chances. Rev 22:11

 

[fli]

Yes, He does- He calls on us daily out of our rebellion to Him Heb 3:7-8 but will we listen?
We should not delay when He calls.... its what the other spirit wants us to do, I will obey tomorrow.

Psa 119:160 I made haste, and did not delay To keep Your commandments.

When Jesus comes in the Clouds, which I believe is soon, there will be no more second chances. Rev 22:11

In other words, you cannot explain how God loves a Christian that you say is in sin. God not only loves him but accepts him as a son.

 

[One God and Father of All]

First law: Exodus, Leviticus (fulfilled)

Deuteronomy (second law): judgments ( not yet fulfilled)
Prophets: not yet fulfilled.

 

[fli]

First law: Exodus, Leviticus (fulfilled)

Deuteronomy (second law): judgments ( not yet fulfilled)
Prophets: not yet fulfilled.

If you have something to add to the debate, please say so.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

In other words, you cannot explain how God loves a Christian that you say is in sin. God not only loves him but accepts him as a son.

God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten son. Thats how much He loves us, but the problem is not Christ love for us, it is our love for Him. He never lets go of us, we let go of Him when we do our will over His, He loves us so much He has no choice but to let us go and will not force His will on us. His commandments are kept though love and faith. 1 John 5:3 John 14:15 Rom 3:31 Rev 14:12

There is no scripture that says we are saved in our sins. Heb 10:26-30. If we come to Christ and ask for His help obeying Him, He will help us overcome, but there is no scripture that says we can break the least of these commandments without seeking repentance and sanctification and we will be saved. Jesus seems to be clear on this. Mat 5:19 Mat 7:21-23 1 John 2:3-6, Rev 22:14-15 Mat 15:3-14

 

[fli]

God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten son. Thats how much He loves us, but the problem is not Christ love for us, it is our love for Him. He never lets go of us, we let go of Him when we do our will over His, He loves us so much He has no choice but to let us go and will not force His will on us. His commandments are kept though love and faith. 1 John 5:3 John 14:15 Rom 3:31 Rev 14:12

1 Corinthians 11:27 Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. 30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world. NKJV


Paul states that some of the drunks above were chastened for their actions. Jesus made them sick and put some of them to sleep. Putting them to sleep means they died under discipline.


Hebrews 12:5 And you have forgotten the exhortation which speaks to you as to sons: "My son, do not despise the chastening of the Lord, Nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by Him; 6 For whom the Lord loves He chastens, And scourges every son whom He receives." NKJV


Verse 6 God chastens those He loves. Therefore, He loves the drunks. He scourges every son He receives. Scourge means to punish with severity. He punished with sickness until they died. I would say a punishment of sickness resulting in death would qualify as scourging.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

1 Corinthians 11:27 Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. 30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world. NKJV


Paul states that some of the drunks above were chastened for their actions. Jesus made them sick and put some of them to sleep. Putting them to sleep means they died under discipline.


Hebrews 12:5 And you have forgotten the exhortation which speaks to you as to sons: "My son, do not despise the chastening of the Lord, Nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by Him; 6 For whom the Lord loves He chastens, And scourges every son whom He receives." NKJV


Verse 6 God chastens those He loves. Therefore, He loves the drunks. He scourges every son He receives. Scourge means to punish with severity. He punished with sickness until they died. I would say a punishment of sickness resulting in death would qualify as scourging.

Does He chasten us so we continue in the path of sin or to help free us from that bondage?

 

[One God and Father of All]

If you have something to add to the debate, please say so.

The law contains judgments, as do the prophets. The judgments contained in Deuteronomy(second law) have yet to be fulfilled. As do the prophets yet to be fulfilled.
Not one jot or title of those judgments will pass until all are fulfilled.

 

[fli]

Does He chasten us so we continue in the path of sin or to help free us from that bondage?

1 Corinthians 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world. NKJV

 

[fli]

First law: Exodus, Leviticus (fulfilled)

Deuteronomy (second law): judgments ( not yet fulfilled)
Prophets: not yet fulfilled.

If the judgments of the law needed to be fulfilled by Him to be sinless then He fulfilled them. If the judgments in the prophecies were to be fulfilled by His first coming, then they were fulfilled. All the prophecies of His first coming were fulfilled.

 

[One God and Father of All]

If the judgments of the law needed to be fulfilled by Him to be sinless then He fulfilled them. If the judgments in the prophecies were to be fulfilled by His first coming, then they were fulfilled. All the prophecies of His first coming were fulfilled.

All the judgments and prophecy of his second coming need to be fulfilled.

 

[fli]

I am sure that He will fulfill all that needs to be fulfilled in its time.

 

[One God and Father of All]

I am sure that He will fulfill all that needs to be fulfilled in its time.

Me too.

 

[fli]

Does He chasten us so we continue in the path of sin or to help free us from that bondage?

Galatians 2:11 Now when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed; 12 for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision. 13 And the rest of the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy.


14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, "If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews? 15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified. NKJV


Peter and Barnabas both transgressed the commandment to love your neighbor as you love yourself. Paul did not mention one time that they violated the 10 commandments. James seemed to be the instigator yet, nothing is mentioned about his transgression.


Luke 12:42 And the Lord said, "Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his master will make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of food in due season? 43 Blessed is that servant whom his master will find so doing when he comes. 44 Truly, I say to you that he will make him ruler over all that he has. 45 But if that servant says in his heart, 'My master is delaying his coming,' and begins to beat the male and female servants, and to eat and drink and be drunk, 46 the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. 47 And that servant who knew his master's will and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few. For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more. NKJV


Peter was the chief steward for Jesus. Both Barnabas and James were apostles. All of them had gifts of the apostles which meant they had many gifts of the Spirit. If God expects more of them something more than just a dressing down would have been in order.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Galatians 2:11 Now when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed; 12 for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision. 13 And the rest of the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy.


14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, "If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews? 15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified. NKJV


Peter and Barnabas both transgressed the commandment to love your neighbor as you love yourself. Paul did not mention one time that they violated the 10 commandments. James seemed to be the instigator yet, nothing is mentioned about his transgression.


Luke 12:42 And the Lord said, "Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his master will make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of food in due season? 43 Blessed is that servant whom his master will find so doing when he comes. 44 Truly, I say to you that he will make him ruler over all that he has. 45 But if that servant says in his heart, 'My master is delaying his coming,' and begins to beat the male and female servants, and to eat and drink and be drunk, 46 the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. 47 And that servant who knew his master's will and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few. For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more. NKJV


Peter was the chief steward for Jesus. Both Barnabas and James were apostles. All of them had gifts of the apostles which meant they had many gifts of the Spirit. If God expects more of them something more than just a dressing down would have been in order.

Can you please tell me how you think these two passages relates to the Words of Jesus in your OP- I did not come to destroy the law- heaven and earth will pass before one jot or tittle will pass from the law and not to break or teach others to break the least of these commanemnts as it affects our status in heaven, which if you read the next verse in the passage Mat 5:20 least does not mean one will be there.

 

[fli]

Can you please tell me how you think these two passages relates to the Words of Jesus in your OP- I did not come to destroy the law- heaven and earth will pass before one jot or tittle will pass from the law and not to break or teach others to break the least of these commanemnts as it affects our status in heaven, which if you read the next verse in the passage Mat 5:20 least does not mean one will be there.

My belief is that we are not under the law. Your doctrine is that we must obey the 10 commandments to be saved. I am citing scriptures that disprove the doctrine that Christians are under the 10 commandments. We should obey all that Jesus commands, but we are not under the law or the 10 commandments.


Here is another instance of a Christian in violation of the ten. First the background.


Acts 18:1 After these things Paul departed from Athens and went to Corinth. …............................................................9 Now the Lord spoke to Paul in the night by a vision, "Do not be afraid, but speak, and do not keep silent; 10 for I am with you, and no one will attack you to hurt you; for I have many people in this city." 11 And he continued there a year and six months, teaching the word of God among them. NKJV


Paul started the church at Corinth and taught there a year and a half. God testified that He had many people in the city.


Acts 18:24 Now a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man and mighty in the Scriptures, came to Ephesus. 25 This man had been instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in spirit, he spoke and taught accurately the things of the Lord, though he knew only the baptism of John. 26 So he began to speak boldly in the synagogue. When Aquila and Priscilla heard him, they took him aside and explained to him the way of God more accurately. 27 And when he desired to cross to Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him; and when he arrived, he greatly helped those who had believed through grace; 28 for he vigorously refuted the Jews publicly, showing from the Scriptures that Jesus is the Christ. Acts 19: 1 And it happened, while Apollos was at Corinth, NKJV



After Paul left Apollos went to Corinth and taught there. The Holy Spirit speaks highly of Apollos in the above scriptures. The Corinth church was instructed by good teachers for over 2 years. They should have been thoroughly indoctrinated with all good teachings.

1 Corinthians 1:4 I thank my God always concerning you for the grace of God which was given to you by Christ Jesus, 5 that you were enriched in everything by Him in all utterance and all knowledge, 6 even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you, 7 so that you come short in no gift, eagerly waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ, NKJV


In addition to right teachings God had gifted the church all the gifts. The holy Spirit had blessed the church and made sure that the church had plenty of gifts for edification, guidance and right teachings.

1 Corinthians 5:1 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and such sexual immorality as is not even named among the Gentiles — that a man has his father's wife! 2 And you are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he who has done this deed might be taken away from among you. NKJV


A man was having relations with his father's wife. He was guilty of breaking at least 3 of the ten. The church did not condemn him, they were proud of his behavior.


The church had all the gifts. That means that there were at least several with gifts who knew the young man was breaking the 10 commandments. The church had many Jews who did not need a gift to know that the man was breaking the 10. In addition, all of that the church had a long period of good teaching under Paul. Yet, the church was proud of the young man.

Everyone in Corinth who was encouraging the young man was guilty of breaking the first and tenth commandments.


1 Corinthians 5:3 For I indeed, as absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged (as though I were present) him who has so done this deed. 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. NKJV


Paul knew that the young man was breaking the 10. He recommended a procedure that is only for the righteous. Satan does not harm his own. If he did his kingdom would fall. Paul said that Satan would kill the man's flesh and his spirit would be saved. If his spirit was saved the young man would go to be with the Lord.


The church at Corinth was not aware that Christians were under the law, the ten commandments.


Romans 3:7 For if the truth of God has increased through my lie to His glory, why am I also still judged as a sinner? 8 And why not say, "Let us do evil that good may come"? — as we are slanderously reported and as some affirm that we say. Their condemnation is just. NKJV


That is what some in the early church thought Paul was teaching. If he was teaching that Christians had to obey the ten commandments such a misunderstanding would not have occurred.