Jesus and sin

[Gary K]

I would like to point out something in the life of Jesus that I think will be new to most people.

Hebrews 1: 8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

Jesus hates iniquity and did during His life here on earth. He is sinless.

Hebrews 4: 14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Now let's go to the temptation in the wilderness.

Matthew 4: 1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.
3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.

Have you ever been tempted to turn stones into bread when hungry? So, if the devil is tempting Jesus to sin how is being hungry a sin? I propose that it was futile for the devil to tempt Jesus to sin as we think of sinning. Hebrews 1:9 tells us Jesus hated sin. So was the sin the devil tempted Jesus with the same type of sin which we are tempted to indulge in? Yes. He was tempting Jesus to feed Himself miraculously. To use His own power to help Himself. Why would this be? How can this be? Jesus said:

John 5: 30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

The temptation was to separate Himself from His Father and do things on His own. And what is our temptation? To separate ourselves from God and do things our own way. Both actions are sinful as God is righteousness and the devil fell in heaven by wanting to do things his own way and thus separate himself from God. He set himself as his own idol and by separating ourselves from God and His power to live right we are doing the same.

The only way to live righteously as Jesus did is to submit ourselves to God as Jesus did to His Father. Then we are not part of the equation in our salvation.

 

[BobRyan]

good point. Also the temptation was designed to destroy Christ's role as a pattern , example for us. If He as God would solve problems He faced on Earth then only when we turn into God would we be able to find solutions to our problems here on Earth - and of course we never turn into God.

1 John 2 says this -
3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

good point. Also the temptation was designed to destroy Christ's role as a pattern , example for us. If He as God would solve problems He faced on Earth then only when we turn into God would we be able to find solutions to our problems here on Earth - and of course we never turn into God.

1 John 2 says this -
3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

Yes, good point, which is what the saints do until the end of time.

They keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus Rev 14:12. We need the same faith Jesus had- Jesus led by example Heb 4:15 1 Peter 2:21-22 1 John 2:6 and He kept all the commandments of God and taught us to as well. Jesus would never lead us down the wrong path and we can never be wrong in following Him, His example and His teachings over our own rules. Mat 15:3-9 Mat 5:19-30 John 15:10 Luke 4:16, Mat 19:17-19

 

[oikonomia]

Yes, good point, which is what the saints do until the end of time.

They keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus Rev 14:12. We need the same faith Jesus had- Jesus led by example Heb 4:15 1 Peter 2:21-22 1 John 2:6 and He kept all the commandments of God and taught us to as well. Jesus would never lead us down the wrong path and we can never be wrong in following Him, His example and His teachings over our own rules. Mat 15:3-9 Mat 5:19-30 John 15:10 Luke 4:16, Mat 19:17-19

So you are here as well teaching that Christians are obligated to keep the 7th Day Sabbath by including Luke 4:16.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

So you are here as well teaching that Christians are obligated to keep the 7th Day Sabbath by including Luke 4:16.

Jesus did- are we not told to follow His example? 1 John 2:6

 

[oikonomia]

Jesus did- are we not told to follow His example? 1 John 2:6

I asked on another thread if you were capable to discuss
here something besides the keeping of the 7th Day Sabbath.
You told me to go to other forums and check.

So occasionally I will do that.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I asked on another thread if you were capable to discuss
here something besides the keeping of the 7th Day Sabbath.
You told me to go to other forums and check.

So occasionally I will do that.

You might want to go outside of the law and Sabbath forum as this one is dedicated to discussing the Sabbath, so of course that is going to be the main topic. You're here on this forum dedicated to the Sabbath discussion- were you expecting something else to be discussed?

I offered to discuss anything in the bible with you, but you never took me up on my offer. It still stands.

 

[oikonomia]

You might want to go outside of the law and Sabbath forum as this one is dedicated to discussing the Sabbath, so of course that is going to be the main topic. You're here on this forum dedicated to the Sabbath discussion- were you expecting something else to be discussed?

I offered to discuss anything in the bible with you, but you never took me up on my offer. It still stands.

That is not where I see it stands. It stands that on THAT forum, dedicated to Sabbath, I don't think you will
not argue with the deeper significance of it.

From experience I think it stands that to discuss the Sabbath is to argue for obligatory keeping of the 7th Day rest. This seems to be
all you see about it. And to point out more about Sabbath Rest to you is "bashing" it.

Perhaps I too cannot write too much on this Forum without eventually getting around
to Christ being EVERYTHING to us. So we might be even. You with your agenda and me with mine.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

That is not where I see it stands. It stands that on THAT forum, dedicated to Sabbath, I don't think you will
not argue with the deeper significance of it.

From experience I think it stands that to discuss the Sabbath is to argue for obligatory keeping of the 7th Day rest. This seems to be
all you see about it. And to point out more about Sabbath Rest to you is "bashing" it.

Perhaps I too cannot write too much on this Forum without eventually getting around
to Christ being EVERYTHING to us. So we might be even. You with your agenda and me with mine.

I see the Sabbath just has God commanded Exodus 20:8-11

I do see the Sabbath as greater significance because its not just about a day, its about who our allegiance is to. Keeping the Sabbath is our sign of our allegiance to God, the God of Creation Eze 20:20 the only God that has the power to sanctify Eze 20:12

Just like in the Garden, the tree was more than just a tree.

I disagree that the Sabbath commandment was altered in any way, Jesus said His law can't be altered Deut 4:2 Psa 89:34 Mat 5:18 not one jot or tittle because no one is above God's spoken and written Word.

Christ is everything to us, so when He asks us to keep His commandments and set aside the seventh day to spend holy time with us and to spend one full day dedicated to Him Isa 58:13 to bless and sanctify as we can't sanctify ourselves Eze 20:12 I don't think He's asking too much, and it always surprises me people argue against this for some strange reason, like what could be more important than this.

 

[oikonomia]

I see the Sabbath just has God commanded Exodus 20:8-11

I think this confirms what I am saying. If God, now, says to us something else about Rest, to speak to
that might be considered "bashing" Exodus 20:8-11.

I do see the Sabbath as greater significance because its not just about a day, its about who our allegiance is to.

That is somewhat of an encouraging sign that you see a "greater significance."
But again, I am quickly concerned that "allegience" to its greater significance just amounts to a Day.
Exploring allegience to it transcending a day of the week observance, I suspect will be considered by you as "bashing."

Keeping the Sabbath is our sign of our allegiance to God, the God of Creation Eze 20:20 the only God that has the power to sanctify Eze 20:12

Just like in the Garden, the tree was more than just a tree.

I disagree that the Sabbath commandment was altered in any way, Jesus said His law can't be altered Deut 4:2 Psa 89:34 Mat 5:18 not one jot or tittle because no one is above God's spoken and written Word.

Christ is everything to us, so when He asks us to keep His commandments and set aside the seventh day to spend holy time with us and to spend one full day dedicated to Him Isa 58:13 to bless and sanctify as we can't sanctify ourselves Eze 20:12 I don't think He's asking too much, and it always surprises me people argue against this for some strange reason, like what could be more important than this.

This confirms my observation. You are surprised that to speak of the deeper meaning of Sabbath amounts to "bashing" the obligatory
demand upon all Christians to set aside as special the 7th Day.

"Christ is everything" means to you , like, "Christ who is everything commanded the keeping of the 4th commandment. So what could be more important ? '

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I think this confirms what I am saying. If God, now, says to us something else about Rest, to speak to
that might be considered "bashing" Exodus 20:8-11.

You mean altering His commandments, He said heaven and earth would pass away before doing so. Heaven and earth are still here....therefore we are to keep the Sabbath according to the commandment, just like His faithful followers did in scripture. Luke 23:56

That is somewhat of an encouraging sign that you see a "greater significance."
But again, I am quickly concerned that "allegience" to its greater significance just amounts to a Day.
Exploring allegience to it transcending a day of the week observance, I suspect will be considered by you as "bashing."
This confirms my observation. You are surprised that to speak of the deeper meaning of Sabbath amounts to "bashing" the obligatory
demand upon all Christians to set aside as special the 7th Day.

For some reason, it appears you think I am the one who said the seventh day is the Sabbath. These are not my words, these were spoken and written by God personally. If you disagree, your argument is with a much higher authority than I

Exodus 20:10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God

Seems clear to me.

"Christ is everything" means to you , like, "Christ who is everything commanded the keeping of the 4th commandment. So what could be more important ? '

No, Christ is everything to me, so I obey all of His commandments which includes the 4th commandment. I do not see the commandments as multiple choice.

 

[trophy33]

therefore we are to keep the Sabbath according to the commandment, just like His faithful followers did in scripture. Luke 23:56

Can you explain to me how this works in your mind - why is healing, carrying a mat or plucking the grains from wheat on Sabbath allowed, but the proper burial of the son of God is not?

What is the rule for you to decide what is faithful and what is not?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Can you explain to me how this works in your mind - why is healing, carrying a mat or plucking the grains from wheat on Sabbath allowed, but the proper burial of the son of God is not?

What is the rule for you to decide what is faithful and what is not?

Jesus said it was not a sin to eat grain or carry a mat on the Sabbath, so I believe Him.

Spending hours on a burial is work and His faithful followers kept the Sabbath according to the commandment even after His death, just goes to show how important obeying God is to God's people, even after His death.

The more we obey, the more spiritual discernment we have. Acts 5:32 The Pharisees lacked this spiritual discernment because they kept their rules over the commandments of God and had similar questions and misunderstanding about God's Sabbath, so much so it led to His death due to these false accusations.

 

[trophy33]

Well I didn't write scripture, and Jesus said it was not a sin to eat grain or carry a mat, so I believe Him.

Jesus said no such thing.

Spending hours on a burial is work and His faithful followers kept the Sabbath according to the commandment even after His death, just goes to show how important obeying God is to God's people, even after His death.

The more we obey, the more spiritual discernment we have.

Where does the Mosaic Law says the proper burial of the son of God is not allowed on Sabbath, for it to be obeyed?

What rule do you use for deciding what is and what is not work?

 

[oikonomia]

You mean altering His commandments, He said heaven and earth would pass away before doing so. Heaven and earth are still here....therefore we are to keep the Sabbath according to the commandment, just like His faithful followers did in scripture. Luke 23:56

He who said His words will not pass away though heaven and earth would also said this -
I am the way and the reality and the life; no one comes to the Father except through Me. (John 14:6)

I suspect your response will be that this means we better adhere to keeping the 7th Day Sabbath on the
ultimate authority of Jesus.

I would point out that Jesus Himself is the way, the reality (truth) and the life. Without Him Himself no one
comes to God.

For some reason, it appears you think I am the one who said the seventh day is the Sabbath. These are not my words, these were spoken and written by God personally. If you disagree, your argument is with a much higher authority than I

Exodus 20:10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God

Seems clear to me.

No, Christ is everything to me, so I obey all of His commandments which includes the 4th commandment. I do not see the commandments as multiple choice.

I think I will still spot check your entries to see if you are capable of any other theme besides the 4th commandment's adherence.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

He who said His words will not pass away though heaven and earth would also said this -
I am the way and the reality and the life; no one comes to the Father except through Me. (John 14:6)

I suspect your response will be that this means we better adhere to keeping the 7th Day Sabbath on the
ultimate authority of Jesus.

I would point out that Jesus Himself is the way, the reality (truth) and the life. Without Him Himself no one
comes to God.


I think I will still spot check your entries to see if you are capable of any other theme besides the 4th commandment's adherence.

So if Jesus is the way and asked us to keep His commandments, who kept all of the commandments including the Sabbath Luke 4:16 and we are to follow His example 1 John 2:6 - why do you think we can sidestep this commandment? On whose authority? Certainly not Jesus.

You keep isolating the Sabbath like it's a separate commandment from the other 9. God wrote Ten Commandments Deut 4:13 Exo 31:18 Exo 32:16 Breaking the Sabbath commandment is no different than breaking any of the other commandments - breaking one is like breaking them all James 2:10-12. Do you think we can be in Christ but worship other gods, or vain His holy name, or lie or steal. Why treat the Sabbath any different. It's the one commandment that has to do with our time- all Jesus wants to do is spend time with us. He is the way and through His teachings and example He will lead us on the narrow path back to reconciliation Rev 22:14

Yeah, as long as we are on the Sabbath and law forum, I will talk about the Sabbath, my suggestion if you do not liking talking about it there are other forums.

 

[oikonomia]

So if Jesus is the door and asked us to keep His commandments, who kept all of the commandments including the Sabbath and we are to follow His example- why do you think we can sidestep this commandment? On whose authority? Certainly not Jesus.

Let's say you are a prisoner who has been thrown into solitary confinement. And you have no idea if it is day or night or even
what day of the week it is.

But you heard that "Whoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." So you cry out to the Lord Jesus for comfort, support,
sustaining of sanity, LOVE, forgiveness, endurance, longsuffering, and enjoyment of the presence of God.

I think having this knowledge about the Lord being rich to all who call upon Him would be
more prescious than a just being furnished with a list of the commandments from Exodus and watch and calender.

Yeah, as long as we are on the Sabbath and law forum, I will talk about the Sabbath, my suggestion if you do not liking talking about it there are other forums.

Erased request.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Let's say you are a prisoner who has been thrown into solitary confinement. And you have no idea if it is day or night or even
what day of the week it is.

You if you heard that "Whoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." So you cry out to the Lord Jesus for comfort, support,
sustaining of sanity, LOVE, forgiveness, endurance, longsuffering, and enoyment of the presence of God.

I think having this knowledge about the Lord being rich to all who call upon Him would be
more prescious than a just being furnished with a list of the commandments from Exodus and watch and calender.


I see. Now where and on what Forum did you contribute to in which you did not mention adherence to the 4th commandment?
Send me there to read about what else is on your heart.

Jesus will comfort us in our darkest hour, but did you know when we turn from hearing His law scripture says this...

Pro 28:9 One who turns away his ear from hearing the law, Even his prayer is an abomination.

Our salvation is from sin Mat 1:21. not in sin. Sin is the transgression of God's law 1 John 3:4 Romans 7:7 and the Sabbath is part of this same law, written by the finger of God, so no I can't get on board that we can break this commandment -the one commandment God said Remember and keep holy is the one we can forget and profane. You're talking to the wrong person.

Guess we will have to agree to disagree.

 

[oikonomia]

Jesus will comfort us in our darkest hour, but did you know when we turn from hearing His law scripture says this...

We need His presence in every hour high or low, dark or bright.
Do you agree?

Pro 28:9 One who turns away his ear from hearing the law, Even his prayer is an abomination.

I know the verse. I am not talking about "turning from hearing the law" of the prisoner.
He just doesn't know anything to do but to cry out to the Lord Jesus.

He is RICH to all who call upon Him. That is all he can experience.

Our salvation is from sin Mat 1:21. not in sin. Sin is the transgression of God's law 1 John 3:4 Romans 7:7 and the Sabbath is part of this same law, written by the finger of God, so no I can't get on board that we can break this commandment -the one commandment God said Remember and keep holy is the one we can forget and profane. You're talking to the wrong person.

Guess we will have to agree to disagree.

I want to take back about sending me to see if there is anything else on your heart.
I'll just check now and then if the Lord really leads me to do so.
And I think maybe He is not.

Agape.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

We need His presence in every hour high or low, dark or bright.
Do you agree?

I know the verse. I am not talking about "turning from hearing the law" of the prisoner.
He just doesn't know anything to do by cry out to the Lord Jesus.

He is RICH to all who call upon Him. That is all he can experience.

I want to take back about sending me to see if there is anything else on your heart.
I'll just check now and then if the Lord really leads me to do so.
And I think maybe He is not.

Agape.

If we sincerely call on Jesus in our darkest hour, He will comfort us. Jesus never leaves us, we leave Him when we stop hearing the Holy Spirit calling us out of rebellion to God Heb 3:7-8 He pleas with us daily, but we can lose communication due to our rebellion. The scripture says the Holy Spirit is given to help us obey Him John 14:15-18 and to those who obey Acts 5:32. If you are new to Christ, He accepts us just as we are, but as we grow in Him we should be making that connection stronger and would want to do everything He asks of us through love and faith.

There are lots of things on my heart, Jesus knows so that's what matters, I do spend time on the Sabbath commandment, because its the forgotten commandment. God said Remember- if its important to God, it should be to us. Thanks for the chat. God bless.