Jesus and Metaphors

[Timothew]

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=teMlv3ripSM

 

[ebia]

This is the part I objected to, in my odd way:
"You can't have it both ways. It's the slippery slope which non-believers of the Eucharist must go down"

The OP admits that there are things that Jesus says which are to be taken metaphorically. Then he says that if we do, we deny His divinity.

The OP was so Python-esk that I had to post the witch scene from "Holy Grail", also anything Monte is just funny.

I got your reference.

 

[Timothew]

I got your reference.

No you didn't

 

[TheCunctator]

There was a different meaning, however, when referring to Holy Communion and the "I am the door."

When he was referring to the former, he said "this bread IS MY FLESH," not "my body is bread to those who believe."

 

[Tangible]

Do you worship the Eucharist?

I worship Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God, whose true body and blood I receive in, with and under the bread and wine in the context of the Sacrament of the Altar.

I do not worship or adore the host as do some Catholics.

Also: http://www.christianforums.com/t7402686/#post53029397

 

[Eucharisted]

Thanks, everyone, for the replies so far

 

[tadoflamb]

I worship Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God, whose true body and blood I receive in, with and under the bread and wine in the context of the Sacrament of the Altar.

I do not worship or adore the host as do some Catholics.

That's what I don't understand. One would hope one's practice would align with one's belief and since some Protestants profess a belief in the Real Presence (true Body and Blood) of Christ in the Holy Eucharist, then why don't they kneel before it as the bible says, "Every knee will bend".

 

[Warrior Poet]

Non-Catholic Christians,

You believe when Jesus spoke of His Body in John 6, He spoke metaphorically, that the Eucharist is not Jesus but a symbol of Jesus. You back this up with His self-reference of being the Door to the Father: He is not an actual door, He's just speaking metaphorically.

Using the same logic, one must conclude that when Jesus calls Himself the Son of God, He is not speaking literally but metaphorically: He isn't calling Himself God, He's just saying He's a son of God - like every Israelite is! So Jesus isn't claiming to be God, He's just claiming to be a Jew, an Israelite.

You can't have it both ways. It's the slippery slope which non-believers of the Eucharist must go down, or else, you'll have to face the fact that Jesus spoke literally of His Body in John 6, which is backed up by His words at the Last Supper: "λάβετε: τοῦτό ἐστιν τὸ σῶμά μου." (Take, eat; this is My Body)

I have found that more Protestants are turned away from the RCC take on the Eucharist for their interpretation OF the Real Presence, not so much IF the the real presence is part of the Eucharist.

It is the explanation of the mystery that takes place while partaking that destroys the true beauty and complexities of the Eucharist, both metaphorically and literally, if one is being forced to adopt or concede to one or the other.

Warrior Poet

 

[JamesAH]

No you didn't

Hey you haven't paid for you 5 minutes of arguing yet

 

[tadoflamb]

Hey you haven't paid for you 5 minutes of arguing yet

I'd like to complain....

 

[Tangible]

That's what I don't understand. One would hope one's practice would align with one's belief and since some Protestants profess a belief in the Real Presence (true Body and Blood) of Christ in the Holy Eucharist, then why don't they kneel before it as the bible says, "Every knee will bend".

Because the command that we are given by Jesus himself at the institution of the sacrament is that we are to simply "take, eat" and "drink" the consecrated bread and wine, not kneel before it and venerate it.

We do, in fact, kneel to receive the sacrament, but we are kneeling before God in reverence to him as he comes to us to deliver to us yet again the forgiveness of our sins, not kneeling before the consecrated elements.

 

[Timothew]

Hey you haven't paid for you 5 minutes of arguing yet

Yes I have.

 

[tadoflamb]

Because the command that we are given by Jesus himself at the institution of the sacrament is that we are to simply "take, eat" and "drink" the consecrated bread and wine, not kneel before it and venerate it.

We do, in fact, kneel to receive the sacrament, but we are kneeling before God in reverence to him as he comes to us to deliver to us yet again the forgiveness of our sins, not kneeling before the consecrated elements.

But again, if you believe the Body and Blood of Jesus to be truly and really present in the consecrated elements then why have you forsaken Eucharistic adoration? Scripture does say every knee will bend, and Jesus did say "take and eat, this is my body". It would only follow reason for those of us who profess a belief in the Real Presence that we would be spending time on our knees adoring the Blessed Sacrament.

Personally, this is one of the great joys of being Catholic and just one more reason why I remain so. It's not so much that I find the Protestant teachings on the Eucharist as in error as I find them lacking the fullness of what the sacrament truly is.

 

[JamesAH]

Yes I have.

No you haven't.

 

[Timothew]

Here we go!

Jesus said "This IS my body, take and eat, all of you."

He also said:
"I AM the way, the truth, and the life, I am the good shepherd, I am the light of the world, I am the door to the sheepfold, I am the vine, I am the bread of life, I am the resurrection and the life"

John said "He will baptize you with fire" (ouch!)

You are salt, you are light, unless you become like little children, you snakes, whoever does God's will is my brother and sister and mother, are you so dull?, it is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs, Why are you still talking about having no bread? Whoever loses his life for me and for the gospel will save it, some who are standing here will not taste death (what does death taste like?), everyone will be salted with fire, have salt in yourselves, When your eyes are good, your whole body is also full of light, they killed the prophets and you build their tombs, you are worth more than many sparrows, Do not be afraid little flock, keep your lamps burning, I have come to bring fire upon the earth, enter through the narrow door, those who are last will be first and the first will be last, go tell that fox, no prophet can die outside Jerusalem, if anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, if they keep quiet the stones will cry out, this cup is the new covenant in my blood, destroy this temple and I will raise it again in three days, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the spirit, light has come into the world, whoever loves by the truth comes into the light, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water, the water I give him will become in him a spring of water, I have food to eat that you know nothing about, My food is to do the will of him who sent me, do not work for food that spoils but for food that endures to eternal life, who believes in me will never be thirsty, whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, my flesh is real food, my blood is real drink, streams of living water will flow from him, night is coming when no one can work, my sheep listen to me, no one can snatch them out of my hand, A person who has has a bath needs only to wash his feet, my children, don't you know me Philip? my father is the gardener, you are the branches, this is my body, this is my blood of the covenant which is poured out for many. Shall I not drink the cup the Father has given me?

Though I have been speaking figuratively, a time is coming when I will no longer use this kind of language but will tell you plainly about my father.

Do we take it all literally, all figuratively, or some of each?

 

[Standing Up]

But again, if you believe the Body and Blood of Jesus to be truly and really present in the consecrated elements then why have you forsaken Eucharistic adoration? Scripture does say every knee will bend, and Jesus did say "take and eat, this is my body". It would only follow reason for those of us who profess a belief in the Real Presence that we would be spending time on our knees adoring the Blessed Sacrament.

Personally, this is one of the great joys of being Catholic and just one more reason why I remain so. It's not so much that I find the Protestant teachings on the Eucharist as in error as I find them lacking the fullness of what the sacrament truly is.

So, again, I'm the dubm one here.

The Roman Church (Pope Damasus) worships the bread and wine?

 

[Tangible]

So, again, I'm the dubm one here.

The Roman Church (Pope Damasus) worships the bread and wine?

Look up "Eucharistic adoration".

 

[Thekla]

The metaphoric use of "eat flesh" occurs in the OT and means roughly to attack or oppress (ex., Psalm 27:2).