It is time for a new Holy Inquisition

[thereselittleflower]

While the Church may feel better for having a good "clear out" of people who don't measure up (to whose standards I wonder?), I'm not sure that would help overall. A small battle may be won, but if hearts and minds aren't won in the process then it will be a Pyrrhic victory.

I also personally don't recognise inquisitions/excommunications as being in line with the Gospel message of Our Lord. While the intention may be loving and "medicinal" the motivation often seems to be otherwise.

So are you saying that the scriptures are wrong and that Paul was wrong when he excommunicated the young man from the Corithian Church?

Are you saying that you dissent from Church teaching as Church teaching recognizes and defines excommication?

Mark 2:15-17: While Jesus was having dinner at Levi's house, many tax collectors and "sinners" were eating with him and his disciples, for there were many who followed him. When the teachers of the law who were Pharisees saw him eating with the "sinners" and tax collectors, they asked his disciples: "Why does he eat with tax collectors and 'sinners'?" On hearing this, Jesus said to them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
Yes, we may treat them as "tax collectors" (Matt 18:17) but don't forget that Christ was happy to eat with the same tax collectors.

Treat them as "tax collectors"?

That means they cannot be part of the fellowship of the Catholic Church.

That means they cannot receive the sacraments.

That means they cannot receive the Eucharist.

That means they are outside of the Church.

It means ALL that excommunication means.


So what exactly are you arguing against since you support what it means to excommunicate someone?

 

[thereselittleflower]

This is an excellent point. I don't understand why so many folks feel it is their responsibility to tell the Pope and the bishops what to do in such vehement terms. Let the Pope and the bishops be the Pope and the bishops, let the laity be the laity.

The laity are called to go to their Bishop and Pope even if they see a problem that needs addressing.

Laity is laity by doing so. Please do not try to discourage laity from doing their duty as they are obligated by the Church to do.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Maybe it's time for you to get a refresher on the Catechism.

I would recommend that you should be looking to do so yourself. . . I find there is a very strong lack of understanding in these responses.

 

[thereselittleflower]

and this makes him less Christian?

Jim

He has no business debating us here or telling us what we know or don't know about the Catholic faith.

Please stop encouraging and supporting non Catholics in violating our fsg's.

And please stop insinuating that people have said things that no one has said . . .

 

[Basil the Great]

It is a distinct possibility that if the Holy Father decided to press this matter to the fullest extent possible, perhaps Eastern Orthodox churches and conservative Protestant ecclesiastical communities might follow suit and begin excommunicating their pro-abortion rights politicians also.....

 

[thereselittleflower]

I suppose it is possible for a particular non-Catholic to be more informative of the Catechism teachings than most Catholics.

perhaps, but if they were truly informed, they would be Catholic for then they would recognize the need to do so.

 

[Dominus Fidelis]

/puts some popcorn on

I haven't seen a beatdown like this since Tyson vs Holyfield.

Girls got skills.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Funny, it has never occured to me to see if person was Catholic or not. I really don't care.

He's either speaking what is true, or he's not.



Jim

So the fsg's are meaningless for you?

 

[thereselittleflower]

Man bro....have you ever studied what pride is ?

He's right, and all this attack needs to stop and stop now, especially from non catholics.

Please remember where you are.

 

[Fish and Bread]

The laity are called to go to their Bishop and Pope even if they see a problem that needs addressing.

And how does this relate to loud vehement borderline disrespectful (in some cases) complaints about bishops and the Pope on message forums and websites?

 

[thereselittleflower]

Because what was said, was contrary to what the Catechism teaches us.

So, he apparently knows the Catechism better than the professed Catholic.

Jim

No it wasn't and no he doesn't.

 

[frenchdefense]

It is time for a new Holy Inquisition

Yeah, that's because the first one worked so danged well.

 

[thereselittleflower]

OK. I grok that.

The question, then, is why haven't they (the church authority)?

The Church moves slowly and doesn't rush.

That doesn't mean they won't.

When the cry from laity rises high enough, I believe we will see action as you won't believe.

 

[thereselittleflower]

I made a mistake and used the Psalter for ordinary time for vespers tonight (from the Benedictine breviary). But the short reading seemed aposite to this discussion:

Romans 3:23-25a for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.

Yes, and those who have excommunicated themselves must repent to avail themselves of this great gift.

Without repentance, they risk going into the darkness in hell.

 

[chaoschristian]

He has no business debating us here or telling us what we know or don't know about the Catholic faith.

Please stop encouraging and supporting non Catholics in violating our fsg's.

And please stop insinuating that people have said things that no one has said . . .

perhaps, but if they were truly informed, they would be Catholic for then they would recognize the need to do so.

So the fsg's are meaningless for you?

He's right, and all this attack needs to stop and stop now, especially from non catholics.

Please remember where you are.

No it wasn't and no he doesn't.

Since all these seem to be aimed at me, let me ask a question of you directly:

Am I Catholic?

 

[thereselittleflower]

But apparently, they are not currently being excommunicated.

No, the ARE Excommunicated.

The Vatican has simply not made a formal statement to this fact.

But it is a fact.

The Vatican can make this decision,

No, the person makes the decision. . the excommunication is automatic.

It is the real state they are in.


Please do not confuse what the Vatican says formally with whether or not one is excommunicated. Read back through this thread and you will find the reference from the Church that informs us they are already excommunicated.

but for the laity to decide this to be the course of action is unlikely to influence the Holy See.

Laity DOES NOT decide.

Laity calls upon our Bishops to protect the faithful.

The people involved have already declared, by their actions that they have excommunicated themselves.

Wholesale excommunication of American political leaders would likely disrupt diplomatic relations with the Vatican at the very least.

True enough.

Such as that may be, we do not base the practice our faith on such issues.

We are not to compromise our faith for the sake of favor with secular governments.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Also BTW and FYI: the post that Cardinal Ratzinger held before being elected Pope Benedict was to head this congregation. This would lead one to assume that Pope Benedict knows what would consist of a valid reason for calling for another Inquisition.

Yes, I agree completely.

 

[chaoschristian]

The Church moves slowly and doesn't rush.

That doesn't mean they won't.

When the cry from laity rises high enough, I believe we will see action as you won't believe.

Your response assumes the Church wants to move in that direction.

This issue has been around for how many decades on the modern political landscape?

By time the Church makes a decision most of the folks who are the target of the animosity in OBOB will be retired or dead.

 

[katholikos]

Since all these seem to be aimed at me, let me ask a question of you directly:

Am I Catholic?

You tell us
Were you baptised A Catholic? Were you confirmed a Catholic? Are you a Catholic in good standing with the Church?
I'm kinda interested to know myself

 

[thereselittleflower]

Thats right. So technically they could convene a panel and recommend excommunication to the pope. So the OP is not totally beyond the realm of possibility, though it is beyond the realm or probability

I don't believe it is beyond the realm of probability at all, in fact I believe it is the direction we are moving because of their refusal to come in line with the Church's teaching.

The Pope has even spoken to Pelosi, so now we will see what happens. . . . .