It is time for a new Holy Inquisition

[thereselittleflower]

One of the large issues in the 1960 presidential election was the discussion of how much influence the Vatican would have over the first Catholic president if he was elected. I think that many would see wholesale excommunications to be undue interference in American politics

And?

So what?


What is more important?

The protection of truth and taking a clear stand?

Or compromise to avoid being seen in a negative light?


Do you believe we are called, as christians, to compromise truth for acceptance of those who oppose Church teaching?


Wide and easy is the road to hell.

Hard and difficult is the road to heaven and narrow the gate, and few there be that find it.


So which should we REALLY be concerned about?

 

[Basil the Great]

I agree with thereselittleflower. While it is probably true that there would be an outcry from some quarters about interference in politics and violation of the so called "separation of church and state", so what? We must decide what is most important in life.

 

[longhair75]

Friend TLF

And?

So what?

What is more important?

The protection of truth and taking a clear stand?

Or compromise to avoid being seen in a negative light?

I think it would have a negative effect on all American Catholics. From that point, I think it would be very difficult for a Catholic to be elected to any public office.

Do you believe we are called, as christians, to compromise truth for acceptance of those who oppose Church teaching?

No. I do not believe we should compromise on our principles. I am just willing to see that there will possibly be a very serious price to pay.

Wide and easy is the road to hell.

Hard and difficult is the road to heaven and narrow the gate, and few there be that find it.

Again, I say true enough.

So which should we REALLY be concerned about?

I think the decision here is not up to us. The proper authority here is the USCCB We should address our concerns to this body.

 

[Joachim]

I have to give you this. It takes major cojones to suggest that we need to go out and start another inquisition.

 

[JoabAnias]

I have to give you this. It takes major cojones to suggest that we need to go out and start another inquisition.

Only if you realize what your saying.

If the US begins a revolution I think we will see it coming a long ways off.

 

[chaoschristian]

I agree with thereselittleflower. While it is probably true that there would be an outcry from some quarters about interference in politics and violation of the so called "separation of church and state", so what? We must decide what is most important in life.

That 'seperation of church and state' that you've put in scare quotes is as important to Catholics as it is to anyone else.

 

[JoabAnias]

That 'seperation of church and state' that you've put in scare quotes is as important to Catholics as it is to anyone else.

More so, its what protects the Church and makes laws like that just tried in CT unconstitutional.

 

[katholikos]

I have to give you this. It takes major cojones to suggest that we need to go out and start another inquisition.

No it doesn't. It would only take cojones to say that the guilty parties should be burned at the stake.

There is nothing wrong with conducting an Inquisition - an "inquiry" - and excommunicating the guilty parties

 

[ProCommunioneFacior]

I think the decision here is not up to us. The proper authority here is the USCCB We should address our concerns to this body.

Where does this fascination with the USCCB come from? The USCCB is mostly an impotent money wasting bureaucracy. The authority rests with the individual Bishops and/or the Vatican. Thank God some Bishops are waking up and drawing the line, hopefully more of them will follow suit and take upon themselves the authority of the Bishop and protect their flock and let the world know where these politicians stand with their contribution to the slaughter of millions of innocents.

Frankly, I would not cry a tear if I saw the Church get rid of the Conference of Bishops, they have been largely a failed experiment in my estimation.

 

[max1120]

If the Roman Catholic Church did such a thing (and I think Pope Benedict XVI is too smart to go along with this) then there would indeed be a huge outcry. It would be seen as a blatant attempt to intervene and control American politics. The results would be grave damage to the church around the world not just in the United States. The earlier Inquisitions did not bode well for the churches image. You can not conceive of how badly it would damage it this time in the era of CNN. I would not be surprised to see the church loose its tax free status as a result.

More importantly I think it would backfire on you. People would in this modern age see being so excommunicated as a badge of honor. The church would loose all political legitimacy. The church would be seen as a group tyrants hell bent on domination of our nation. The church would be showing that it does not believe in liberty and has a dominating agenda. It would be seen as oppressive and it would I think lead to the churches loss of status. I can not imagine anything worse the church could do. In short such a move would play right into the hands of the churches enemies around the world.

I see this as an academic question since I do not view the Pope as so stupid as to do such a thing. I think even though we may have serious disagreements over issues we both are wise enough to know that such an action would bring irreparable harm to the church.

Max

 

[max1120]

Another point I might add is that in another thread I read about a bill in the Conn. legislature that many of you stated was an "anti-Catholic" bill. If ever something like a new "Inquisition" was to be convened and used against American political leaders in attempt to control American political thought, I can assure you that there would be many more and even harsher laws. The fact is that few would care if you had such a "Inquisition" the church would in short order shrink to nothing and you would be irrelevant. You would drive maybe as many as 75% of American catholics church if not more. That would lead to big drops in revenue and power for the church. You would as I say become almost unnoticed.

With all the problems the Roman Catholic church has today, sex abuse scandals, priest shortage, big decline in western Europe, I fail to see why the church would want to pick a fight of this magnitude which it would most certainly loose.

Max

 

[katholikos]

Another point I might add is that in another thread I read about a bill in the Conn. legislature that many of you stated was an "anti-Catholic" bill. If ever something like a new "Inquisition" was to be convened and used against American political leaders in attempt to control American political thought, I can assure you that there would be many more and even harsher laws.....

Good. We can disobey them. Maybe we'll be persecuted after that, then we can weed out the phony pro-abortion Catholics from the faithful ones

 

[katholikos]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z0wezHBvyY

 

[max1120]

Katholikos...It will not matter at that point. You will not be considered a church in the United States if you loose the tax exempt status. You obviously have a persecution complex. You will have done nothing to change anything. Ok so Nancy Pelosi is no longer a Catholic and Ted Kennedy has a protestant funeral. Big deal! She will still be the Speaker of the House. He will still be a revered American leader. You will have lost over 75% or more of your members, your tax free status, and your legitimacy. Your image will be that of complete tyrants and you likely would have a voice at all in world affairs. The reason some of them want to remain Catholic is because of the votes it may win them in some areas. If the Church drives off 75% or more of its membership because of its dictatorial actions such as you are suggesting, they will see no advantage and most like leave your church thus deny you any public forum to "excommunicate" them. You would look silly saying get out to people who would say proudly that they already left. You would in short order destroy the Roman Catholic church. Be my guest but I doubt your plan makes any further than this forum. The Pope is smarter than you and his advisers are more intelligent than to pick such fights where they stand to loose much and gain nothing.

Max

 

[JoabAnias]

If the Roman Catholic Church did such a thing (and I think Pope Benedict XVI is too smart to go along with this) then there would indeed be a huge outcry. It would be seen as a blatant attempt to intervene and control American politics. The results would be grave damage to the church around the world not just in the United States. The earlier Inquisitions did not bode well for the churches image. You can not conceive of how badly it would damage it this time in the era of CNN. I would not be surprised to see the church loose its tax free status as a result.

More importantly I think it would backfire on you. People would in this modern age see being so excommunicated as a badge of honor. The church would loose all political legitimacy. The church would be seen as a group tyrants hell bent on domination of our nation. The church would be showing that it does not believe in liberty and has a dominating agenda. It would be seen as oppressive and it would I think lead to the churches loss of status. I can not imagine anything worse the church could do. In short such a move would play right into the hands of the churches enemies around the world.

I see this as an academic question since I do not view the Pope as so stupid as to do such a thing. I think even though we may have serious disagreements over issues we both are wise enough to know that such an action would bring irreparable harm to the church.

Max

You do realize this thread was started by what looks like a non-Catholic troll who obviously has no clue what the Inquisition even was about right?

The rest is hypocritical anger that amounts to returning hate for hate.

You can't bring light to the minds of those who hate life in this way.

We need to pray for the abortion proponents and stay faithful.

Returning hate for hate makes one the same as they are and only hurts the cause.

 

[max1120]

Katholikos...Talking to Congresswoman Polosi in a private meeting behind closed doors as the Pope did is perfectly acceptable and he is free to do this with any of his guest. But I think he knows the limits and doing some sort of public tribunal would be way over the line and he knows that fact. He would never do it and would loose his shirt (politically and morally) if he did.

Max

 

[max1120]

JoabAbnias...no was not aware of him being a troll. So you would see it as improper to do such a thing as bringing back some sort of Inquisition???? Such mistakes must never be again allowed to occur.

I respect each mans right to his/her opinion. I further respect the right of even those I bitterly disagree with tho their beliefs and would defend that right to the death. But I sense there are others here who do not so much share my view of liberty. I am concerned that such talk brings bad feelings from the past into the modern age. Why should we allow that? Should we not live in peace?

Max

 

[frenchdefense]

You are barking up the wrong tree . . . it has nothing to do with being a sovereign state.

It has to do with religious discipline. . .

Please think about this.

Well, now that is an opinion assuming facts not exactly in evidence.

Assuming, for the sake of argument, that the Vatican goes after only Democrats (which seem to be the de facto assumption so far on this thread) then is will most certainly look like a matter of internal US politics.

Then is doesn't exactly look like a matter of discipline but more like a foreign power attempting to effect the internal functioning of the US using corrosive means.

If the Chruch were to start going after, say, Republican leaders for, union busting, war making, obscene wealth consolidation at the expense of the many (or any of the other 1000 pro-life issues raise by the chruch) then, of course the leader of the GOP, Rush Limbaugh, would be calling for the unconditional carpet bombing the Vatican City.

So, I think it just doesn't float.

 

[JoabAnias]

Katholikos...Talking to Congresswoman Polosi in a private meeting behind closed doors as the Pope did is perfectly acceptable and he is free to do this with any of his guest. But I think he knows the limits and doing some sort of public tribunal would be way over the line and he knows that fact. He would never do it and would loose his shirt (politically and morally) if he did.

Max

Whether to excommunicate Catholic politicians who propagate an anti-Catholic agenda really has less to do with the politics than with the fact that they are Catholic.

The Bishops are on both sides of the fence on this one and several politicians have been told to abstain from communion on a case per case basis.

 

[a.d.ivNonasNovembres]

Such mistakes must never be again allowed to occur.

There are times when it might be prudent. Now is not such a time.

I respect each mans right to his/her opinion. I further respect the right of even those I bitterly disagree with tho their beliefs and would defend that right to the death. But I sense there are others here who do not so much share my view of liberty. I am concerned that such talk brings bad feelings from the past into the modern age. Why should we allow that? Should we not live in peace?

There is a difference between rights to an opinion and the right to propagate that opinion though.