Is there a break in Daniel's 70 weeks? (Daniel 9:26)

[Anto9us]

I am not derailing anyone's thread.

I am -- and have been -- and WILL CONTINUE TO -- be commenting on

BIBLICAL IMAGERY that had ALREADY BEEN INTRODUCED INTO THIS THREAD

(which now thread I now see has more people voting in it).

I will get back to Daniel ch 9 specifically when I am good and ready to,

AFTER I FINISH TALKING ABOUT THE THREE FRUITS, THANK YOU,

which were already introduced into this thread by Bible2 and IntoJoy

and if ANY PARTICULAR INDIVIDUAL haS a PROBLEM with that,

THEY CAN take it up with a MODERATOR and try to complain that I am "off topic" -
cuz I aint taking that FROM ANYONE OTHERWISE - savvy?

I am and have been continuing with conversation about

topics introduced by others in this thread.

Bible2 first mentioned the budding of the FIG tree.

Then IntoJoy brought up the Olive Tree and the Vine.

These are 3 completely different biblical images - and they are 3 completely different items of nature.

Fig Tree's budding is a SIGN to watch for, fig tree that was WITHERED was a different passage -- some MAY see these passages as being about ISRAEL as a fig tree -- but literally one is a sign to watch for, and one is an actual tree near Jerusalem which Jesus cursed.

The True Vine in John 15 is Jesus Himself, not a "nation of Israel". Grapes grow on VINES, they don't have their own species of TREES -- Figs and OLives have their own species of TREES.

The "Olive BRANCHES" that Paul mentions in Romans are a representation of BELIEVERS and PEOPLE of God's community - - Paul could not be any clearer that the "natural, cultivated Olive branches" represent Jews and that the "wild olive branches which are grafted in" represent GENTILES. These images are beyond any dispute. Note that the possibility of natural olive branches which have been hacked off being grafted back in is alluded to also.

So please let us not confuse trees and fruits and vine.

Now back to Daniel chapter Nine - I happen to be looking at a KJV right now, I normally prefer NRSV _ however - I cannot help but notice - since we been talking about it - that the word "Prince" in the phrase "Messiah the Prince" in verse 25 is CAPITALIZED;

whereas the word "prince" in the phrase "the people of the prince that shall come" in verse 26 is NOT capitalized -- the people of the prince that shall come are the people who destroy the city and the sanctuary.

Daniel WORKED for pagan monarchs - that was his JOB - he had positions in non-Jewish COURTS and worked for ROYALTY that were not part of

"his (Daniel's) people".

Jesus never caused, by His crucifixion or otherwise, any sacrifices and oblations in the Jerusalem Temple to "cease".

Sure, the veil was rent, and perhaps God didn't look on Temple sacrifices the same way after Jesus' sacrifice -- but the same ole same ole sacrifices and oblations went right on being sacrificed and oblated - they were not "caused to cease" "in the midst of the week" -- far from it

The sacrifices and oblations went on being sacrificed and oblated until obliteration of the Temple in 70 AD by the PEOPLE of a prince that should come later than Daniel's time -- not necessarily would it be a "prince" that destroyed the Temple in 70 AD, but it would be by the People of a prince who would come -

maybe that "prince" has not yet come at all, since maybe it was a General - Titus - rather than a monarch - who should get direct responsibility for razing the Temple and his troops leaving it "without one stone left on another" just as Jesus said in Olivet Discourse.

But sacrifices and oblations went right on being done in that Temple until it was indeed destroyed -- and Jesus was long crucified, resurrected, and seated at the right hand of the Father and was not there personally in Jerusalem in 70 AD to cause anything to "cease" -- nor was it the "middle of any of these 70 weeks" when such "ceasing" happened

so maybe we should look for a FUTURE 70th week when another "he" - another "prince" shall "confirm a covenant" - "renig in the middle of it" - and "cause sacfrices to CEASE and bring on an Abomination of Desolation that puts the types and shadows of Antiochus Epiphanes, and Nero or Titus TO SHAME in the intensity of the DESOLATION

and maybe the silly Dispensationalist idea that the "people of the prince that shall come" might have something to do with a sort of "revived Roman empire" as a PEOPLE

is not so silly at all

Anybody think I am ON TOPIC now?

The GAP between the 69th and 70th week started at Messiah being cut off and continues even now.

We're IN the Gap.

 

[intojoy]

The "generation" is not the 1948 rebirth of Israel. It can't be. The Olive Tree is not the symbol for Israel, the Vine is. The olive tree is not being used symbolically. It is being used "literally" to represent a time frame. From the budding of "all the trees" (Luke's acct) the timing of the harvest can be determined as very nigh, very close, right at the door. Thus during the Tribulation the antichrist will exalt himself as God/tree putting forth the bud - in the Third Temple and when he does the timing of the harvest/second coming will be very nigh, very close, right at the door - 3&1/2 years let him who has ears to hear hear.

My badd!!!
FIG TREE NOT OLIVE TREE SORRY.

 

[intojoy]

At least in some wrong technique we established that the Fig Tree in that passage didn't represent Israel. Ha

 

[Anto9us]

Well, heh, let us sincerely hope that Israel is NOT a fig tree from which "no fruit will EVER come from it again" - let us hope there will yet be some Fruit for Israel of some kind - let us hope that individual Jews will be grafted back in to whatever tree that branches were cut off from, for Paul said in spite of everything "all Israel will be saved" and for 65 years now there has been a State of Israel reformed and it may be just DRY BONES with no spirit blown into it yet

but as Yogi Berra said "it aint over til its over"

I erroneously had written in my earlier post that "Daniel served pagan DEITIES" -- how awful -- I meant to say Daniel served pagan MONARCHS - and I have corrected it now

It is not illogical that our WHOLE CHURCH AGE be hidden and ABSENT from Daniel's timeline of weeks - the Church is the MYSTERY hidden for a long time - Messiah was known to OT Prophets but THE CHURCH AS WE KNOW IT wasn't something Daniel and other OT guys could see into

 

[intojoy]

Well, heh, let us sincerely hope that Israel is NOT a fig tree from which "no fruit will EVER come from it again" - let us hope there will yet be some Fruit for Israel of some kind - let us hope that individual Jews will be grafted back in to whatever tree that branches were cut off from, for Paul said in spite of everything "all Israel will be saved" and for 65 years now there has been a State of Israel reformed and it may be just DRY BONES with no spirit blown into it yet

but as Yogi Berra said "it aint over til its over"

I erroneously had written in my earlier post that "Daniel served pagan DEITIES" -- how awful -- I meant to say Daniel served pagan MONARCHS - and I have corrected it now

It is not illogical that our WHOLE CHURCH AGE be hidden and ABSENT from Daniel's timeline of weeks - the Church is the MYSTERY hidden for a long time - Messiah was known to OT Prophets but THE CHURCH AS WE KNOW IT wasn't something Daniel and other OT guys could see into

The Jewish fruit in the church age is the Remnant if Israel made up of believing Jews. Throughout Israel's history the fact is that it has only been a small minority within the nation who believed in their God, as few as 7000 at one point.

What is happening today is we are seeing large numbers of Jews coming to faith in Messiah that has not been the case for the past 19 centuries.

One Jew who came to faith is spoken very highly of by Charles Ryrie, Dr Fruchtenbaum. Ryrie who studied under Chafer, who studied under Schofield, believes that Fruchtenbaum has surpassed all of those great scholars including himself. His ministry is missionary and discipleship of Jewish people and Gentiles. He was forced to leave Israel due to the success of his missionary work there and operates out of San Antonio Texas. Funny thing happened, I was messing with Calvinists on a thread here and one guy who sympathized with me is in London, Fruchtenbaum happens to be teaching there this month and this guy is going to listen in this weekend his website is Ariel.org

http://www.ariel.org/mbsnit.htm

 

[ebedmelech]

The Jewish fruit in the church age is the Remnant if Israel made up of believing Jews. Throughout Israel's history the fact is that it has only been a small minority within the nation who believed in their God, as few as 7000 at one point.

What is happening today is we are seeing large numbers of Jews coming to faith in Messiah that has not been the case for the past 19 centuries.

One Jew who came to faith is spoken very highly of by Charles Ryrie, Dr Fruchtenbaum. Ryrie who studied under Chafer, who studied under Schofield, believes that Fruchtenbaum has surpassed all of those great scholars including himself. His ministry is missionary and discipleship of Jewish people and Gentiles. He was forced to leave Israel due to the success of his missionary work there and operates out of San Antonio Texas. Funny thing happened, I was messing with Calvinists on a thread here and one guy who sympathized with me is in London, Fruchtenbaum happens to be teaching there this month and this guy is going to listen in this weekend his website is Ariel.org

Ariel Ministries: Messianic Bible Studies NUMERICAL INDEX

Ok. However, coming to faith in Christ is one thing, eschatology is another thing.

Even up to Christ ascension He was straightening the disciples out about their thoughts of the end times.

They had to wait for the coming of the Holy Spirit to give them power and equip them with the knowledge and understanding of "the end".

Paul tells us these things were being revealed to the apostles and prophets by the Holy Spirit in Epheasian 3:4-10
4 By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ,
5 which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit;
6 to be specific, that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel,
7 of which I was made a minister, according to the gift of God’s grace which was given to me according to the working of His power.
8 To me, the very least of all saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unfathomable riches of Christ,
9 and to bring to light what is the administration of the mystery which for ages has been hidden in God who created all things;
10 so that the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known through the church to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenly places.

It is this very apostle Paul that reveals to us that there is a "spiritual Israel" and not a ethnic Israel that God is saving.

This is the issue...and it has been a long time. Because there are those who wish to ignore the Spiritual Jew.

 

[intojoy]

Ok. However, coming to faith in Christ is one thing, eschatology is another thing.

Even up to Christ ascension He was straightening the disciples out about their thoughts of the end times.

They had to wait for the coming of the Holy Spirit to give them power and equip them with the knowledge and understanding of "the end".

Paul tells us these things were being revealed to the apostles and prophets by the Holy Spirit in Epheasian 3:4-10
4 By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ,
5 which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit;
6 to be specific, that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel,
7 of which I was made a minister, according to the gift of God's grace which was given to me according to the working of His power.
8 To me, the very least of all saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unfathomable riches of Christ,
9 and to bring to light what is the administration of the mystery which for ages has been hidden in God who created all things;
10 so that the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known through the church to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenly places.

It is this very apostle Paul that reveals to us that there is a "spiritual Israel" and not a ethnic Israel that God is saving.

This is the issue...and it has been a long time. Because there are those who wish to ignore the Spiritual Jew.

We used to be brothers man!

 

[ebedmelech]

We used to be brothers man!

That's on you. As Luther said..."I STAND"...

Jesus stand with me...John 10:16:
16 I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd.

Open your eyes.

 

[intojoy]

That's on you. As Luther said..."I STAND"...

Jesus stand with me...John 10:16:
16 I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd.

Open your eyes.

Which thumb?

 

[ebedmelech]

Which thumb?

Face it...you deny scripture. As the apostles says in Ephesians 2:11-13:
11 Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called “Uncircumcision” by the so-called “Circumcision,” which is performed in the flesh by human hands—
12 remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
13 But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

Notice Gentiles formerly excluded from the commonwealth of Israel...NOT any more through Jesus...That is your "Israel of God".

This is what Jesus did...Ephesians 2:13-16:
13 But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
14 For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall,
15 by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace,
16 and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity.

Can't be more clear!

 

[JLB777]

24 "Seventy weeks are determined For your people and for your holy city, To finish the transgression, To make an end of sins, To make reconciliation for iniquity, To bring in everlasting righteousness, To seal up vision and prophecy, And to anoint the Most Holy. 25 "Know therefore and understand, That from the going forth of the command To restore and build Jerusalem Until Messiah the Prince, There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; The street shall be built again, and the wall, Even in troublesome times. Daniel 9:24-25


...There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;

The first Gap is seen in the lay out of this prophetic word.

...seven weeks and sixty two weeks.

Which is a total of 69 weeks.So by the structure or the way this prophecy is laid out we clearly see.

Seven weeks.

Sixty two weeks.

The Seventieth week.

We see the Going forth of the command -

Note: It is only through the mouth of the ruler of The World Governing Kingdom that can authorize this work to start or stop or start again.


1 Now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, that the word of the Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah might be fulfilled, the Lord stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, so that he made a proclamation throughout all his kingdom, and also put it in writing, saying, 2 Thus says Cyrus king of Persia: All the kingdoms of the earth the Lord God of heaven has given me. And He has commanded me to build Him a house at Jerusalem which is in Judah. 3 Who is among you of all His people? May his God be with him, and let him go up to Jerusalem which is in Judah, and build the house of the Lord God of Israel (He is God), which is in Jerusalem. Ezra 1:1-2


The first gap is seen in Ezra 4 -

23 Now when the copy of King Artaxerxes' letter was read before Rehum, Shimshai the scribe, and their companions, they went up in haste to Jerusalem against the Jews, and by force of arms made them cease. 24 Thus the work of the house of God which is at Jerusalem ceased,and it was discontinued until the second year of the reign of Darius king of Persia. Ezra 4:23-24



17 Now therefore, if it seems good to the king, let a search be made in the king's treasure house, which is there in Babylon, whether it is so that a decree was issued by King Cyrus to build this house of God at Jerusalem, and let the king send us his pleasure concerning this matter. Ezra 5:17


1 Then King Darius issued a decree, and a search was made in the archives, where the treasures were stored in Babylon. 2 And at Achmetha, in the palace that is in the province of Media, a scroll was found, and in it a record was written thus: 3 In the first year of King Cyrus, King Cyrus issued a decree concerning the house of God at Jerusalem: "Let the house be rebuilt, the place where they offered sacrifices; and let the foundations of it be firmly laid, its height sixty cubits and its width sixty cubits, 4 with three rows of heavy stones and one row of new timber. Let the expenses be paid from the king's treasury. 5 Also let the gold and silver articles of the house of God, which Nebuchadnezzar took from the temple which is in Jerusalem and brought to Babylon, be restored and taken back to the temple which is in Jerusalem, each to its place; and deposit them in the house of God"-- 6 Now therefore, Tattenai, governor of the region beyond the River, and Shethar-Boznai, and your companions the Persians who are beyond the River, keep yourselves far from there. 7 Let the work of this house of God alone; let the governor of the Jews and the elders of the Jews build this house of God on its site. 8 Moreover I issue a decree as to what you shall do for the elders of these Jews, for the building of this house of God: Let the cost be paid at the king's expense from taxes on the region beyond the River; this is to be given immediately to these men, so that they are not hindered. 9 And whatever they need--young bulls, rams, and lambs for the burnt offerings of the God of heaven, wheat, salt, wine, and oil, according to the request of the priests who are in Jerusalem--let it be given them day by day without fail, 10 that they may offer sacrifices of sweet aroma to the God of heaven, and pray for the life of the king and his sons. 11 Also I issue a decree that whoever alters this edict, let a timber be pulled from his house and erected, and let him be hanged on it; and let his house be made a refuse heap because of this. 12 And may the God who causes His name to dwell there destroy any king or people who put their hand to alter it, or to destroy this house of God which is in Jerusalem. I Darius issue a decree; let it be done diligently. Ezra 6:1-12


This is the account of the "Going forth of the command to restore and build Jerusalem" and the first gap in the time line.

More to come.


JLB

 

[ebedmelech]

No JLB you're mistaken. I used to think that too...but the prophecy makes it real clear where the 70 weeks start.

Cyrus gave the decree to rebuild the temple...that's not what the prophecy says. It says specifically...Daniel 9:25
25 So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress.

The decree to rebuild JERUSALEM was given by Artaxerxes, That would be Nehemiah 2.

The decree of Cyrus rebuilds the temple...the decree of Artaxerxes rebuilds the city and that's where you count.

I know this is a point where saints disagree...but preterism/futurism aside for the moment...this is a point where I think the scripture is pretty explicit.

The count starts from the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem. If you start at the decree of Cyrus or the prophecy breaks down.

 

[Houly]

The decree to rebuild JERUSALEM was given by Artaxerxes, That would be Nehemiah 2.

I agree. The decree was given by Artaxerxes on March 5, 444 BC. Exactly 156,240 days (69 'sevens') later, Jesus rode into Jerusalem on March 30, 33 AD. Then the cut off. And then there's another entire 'seven' (the 70th).

The cut off can't be at the midpoint of the 70th week. There aren't enough days between Artaxerxes and the Crucifixion.

 

[Bible2]

ebedmelech said in post 46:

It is this very apostle Paul that reveals to us that there is a "spiritual Israel" and not a ethnic Israel that God is saving.

That's right.

All genetic Jews are part of genetic Israel (Romans 9:3-5). But being part of the true, spiritual Israel, the true, spiritual seed of Abraham, the promised seed, isn't based on genetics (Romans 9:6-24), but on God's election (Romans 9:11), which includes both some Jews and some Gentiles (Romans 9:24).

All believing Jews and all believing Gentiles are part of the true Israel (Ephesians 2:12,19, Romans 11:17,24, Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10, John 10:16), the seed of Abraham (Galatians 3:28-29, Romans 4:16-17), the promised seed, just as Isaac was (Galatians 4:28). And so all Gentiles in the church, along with all Jews in the church, are heirs of all the promises made by God to Israel (Ephesians 3:6, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29, Romans 15:27).

In Romans 9:8, by "the children of the flesh", Paul means genetic Jews, who are the genetic children of Abraham (Romans 11:1, Acts 13:26, John 8:37). And by "the children of God"/"the children of the promise", Paul means the elect, both some Jews and some Gentiles (Romans 9:24, Galatians 4:28). Romans 9:6-8 means that not all Jews are elect (John 8:37-47, John 10:26) and that some Gentiles are elect (Romans 9:24, John 10:16, John 11:52). Only a remnant of genetic Israel is elect (Romans 9:27).

 

[JLB777]

No JLB you're mistaken. I used to think that too...but the prophecy makes it real clear where the 70 weeks start.

Cyrus gave the decree to rebuild the temple...that's not what the prophecy says. It says specifically...Daniel 9:25
25 So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress.

The decree to rebuild JERUSALEM was given by Artaxerxes, That would be Nehemiah 2.

The decree of Cyrus rebuilds the temple...the decree of Artaxerxes rebuilds the city and that's where you count.

I know this is a point where saints disagree...but preterism/futurism aside for the moment...this is a point where I think the scripture is pretty explicit.

The count starts from the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem. If you start at the decree of Cyrus or the prophecy breaks down.

Sorry brother, you err not knowing the word.

Here is what God called Cyrus to do.

28 Who says of Cyrus, 'He is My shepherd, And he shall perform all My pleasure, Saying to Jerusalem, "You shall be built," And to the temple, "Your foundation shall be laid." '

1 Now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, that the word of the Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah might be fulfilled, the Lord stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, so that he made a proclamation throughout all his kingdom, and also put it in writing, saying, Ezra 1:1

1 In the first year of Darius the son of Ahasuerus, of the lineage of the Medes, who was made king over the realm of the Chaldeans-- 2 in the first year of his reign I, Daniel, understood by the books the number of the years specified by the word of the Lord through Jeremiah the prophet, that He would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem. Daniel 9:1-2

10 For thus says the Lord: After seventy years are completed at Babylon, I will visit you and perform My good word toward you, and cause you to return to this place. 11 For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the Lord, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope. 12 Then you will call upon Me and go and pray to Me, and I will listen to you. 13 And you will seek Me and find Me, when you search for Me with all your heart. 14 I will be found by you, says the Lord, and I will bring you back from your captivity; I will gather you from all the nations and from all the places where I have driven you, says the Lord, and I will bring you to the place from which I cause you to be carried away captive. Jeremiah 29:10


... And he shall perform all My pleasure, Saying to Jerusalem, "You shall be built," And to the temple, "Your foundation shall be laid." '

Cyrus word which was from God was the command that set everything in motion.

The work was stopped.

The work was started again.

The 69 weeks ended when Jesus entered the city on a donkey on "Palm Sunday".

Messiah the Prince refers to the Messianic proclamation of the people when Jesus came into the city of Jerusalem, where they cried out Hosanna to the son of David, and laid palm branches down before Him. This event is celebrated even to this day as "Palm Sunday".

Hosanna is a Messianic term from psalms 118 that means "save now"! The priest's were angry with the people and asked Jesus to stop them because this was a reference to be made to YHWH.

Psalm 118:21-26
21 I will praise You, For You have answered me, And have become my salvation. 22 The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief cornerstone. 23 This was the Lord's doing; It is marvelous in our eyes. 24 This is the day the Lord has made; We will rejoice and be glad in it. 25 Save now, I pray, O Lord; O Lord, I pray, send now prosperity. 26 Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord! We have blessed you from the house of the Lord.


9 Then the multitudes who went before and those who followed cried out, saying: "Hosanna to the Son of David! 'Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!' Hosanna in the highest!" 10 And when He had come into Jerusalem, all the city was moved, saying, "Who is this?" 11 So the multitudes said, "This is Jesus, the prophet from Nazareth of Galilee." Matthew 21:9-11

Jesus said if these people don't praise me the stones will cry out.

This was the prophecy from Daniel being fulfilled and nothing in heaven or on earth was going to stop it from coming to pass!

This event marked the end of the 69th week!

Five days later, after the 69th week, Messiah was "cut off" on Passover.

26 "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;


JLB

 

[JLB777]

I agree. The decree was given by Artaxerxes on March 5, 444 BC. Exactly 156,240 days (69 'sevens') later, Jesus rode into Jerusalem on March 30, 33 AD. Then the cut off. And then there's another entire 'seven' (the 70th).

The cut off can't be at the midpoint of the 70th week. There aren't enough days between Artaxerxes and the Crucifixion.

17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations, from David until the captivity in Babylon are fourteen generations, and from the captivity in Babylon until the Christ are fourteen generations. Matthew 1:17


A Generation is 40 years.

Babylonian Captivity to Christ = 14 generations = 560 years

Time of Captivity = 70 years : [The going forth of the command]

560 -70 = 490 years -

Gap between 7 weeks and 62 weeks = 40 years = 1 Generation [ From one king to the next] 23 Now when the copy of King Artaxerxes' letter was read before Rehum, Shimshai the scribe, and their companions, they went up in haste to Jerusalem against the Jews, and by force of arms made them cease. 24 Thus the work of the house of God which is at Jerusalem ceased, and it was discontinued until the second year of the reign of Darius king of Persia. Ezra 4:23-24

33 = Birth to “Palm Sunday”
Now Jesus Himself began His ministry at about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, the son of Heli, Luke 3:23

490 - 40 = 450 years + 33 years “Birth” to Messiah the Prince 483 years = 69 weeks

[Messiah the Prince; Hosanna to the son of David]


You have to start with the entire time of Captivity.

The entire 14 Generations is 560 years.

The time of captivity is 70 years.

To arrive at the time of the going forth of the command we deduct the time of captivity. 70 years.


560 -70 = 490 years

The non stop progressive time from the going forth of the going forth of the command to the birth of Christ. 490 years


16 And Jacob begot Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus who is called Christ. 17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations, from David until the captivity in Babylon are fourteen generations, and from the captivity in Babylon until the Christ are fourteen generations. 18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows...

... from the captivity in Babylon until the Christ are fourteen generations.

That's 70 weeks.

We are looking for 69 weeks.

69 weeks to Messiah the Prince.

490 - 40 = 450 years + 33 years “Birth” to Messiah the Prince 483 years = 69 weeks


JLB

 

[ebedmelech]

Sorry brother, you err not knowing the word.

Here is what God called Cyrus to do.

28 Who says of Cyrus, 'He is My shepherd, And he shall perform all My pleasure, Saying to Jerusalem, "You shall be built," And to the temple, "Your foundation shall be laid." '

1 Now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, that the word of the Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah might be fulfilled, the Lord stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, so that he made a proclamation throughout all his kingdom, and also put it in writing, saying, Ezra 1:1

1 In the first year of Darius the son of Ahasuerus, of the lineage of the Medes, who was made king over the realm of the Chaldeans-- 2 in the first year of his reign I, Daniel, understood by the books the number of the years specified by the word of the Lord through Jeremiah the prophet, that He would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem. Daniel 9:1-2

10 For thus says the Lord: After seventy years are completed at Babylon, I will visit you and perform My good word toward you, and cause you to return to this place. 11 For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the Lord, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope. 12 Then you will call upon Me and go and pray to Me, and I will listen to you. 13 And you will seek Me and find Me, when you search for Me with all your heart. 14 I will be found by you, says the Lord, and I will bring you back from your captivity; I will gather you from all the nations and from all the places where I have driven you, says the Lord, and I will bring you to the place from which I cause you to be carried away captive. Jeremiah 29:10

Notice the Lord says two things. The problem you have is you're making the two things one. They are not. Cyrus is the beginning of what God will accomplish not the end. You allow the scriptures to say HOW prophecy is fulfilled.

Ezra 1:1-4 ends the 70 years captivity. Daniel prayed for that in Daniel 9:1-19. Ezra 1-1 tells us this is fulfilled:
Now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, in order to fulfill the word of the Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah, the Lord stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, so that he sent a proclamation throughout all his kingdom, and also put it in writing, saying:

This is Cyrus' decree but it is NOT a decree to rebuild Jerusalem, it's a decree to rebuild the temple. The 70 weeks for the captivity of Judah end with the decree to build the temple.

You're correct that Cyrus sets things in motion, but if you don't remmeber the the 70 weeks start with the "decree to rebuild Jerusalem", which is so clearly stated in Daniel 9:24, you make a huge error. Notice it DOES NOT include anything about the temple...Daniel 9:25:
25 So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress.
Nothing about the temple is there...why? because Ezra rebuilt the temple FIRST. It was only after Nehemiah complained to King Artaxerxes that THE CITY was desolate, that the decree come to rebuild the city by Artaxerses.

... And he shall perform all My pleasure, Saying to Jerusalem, "You shall be built," And to the temple, "Your foundation shall be laid." '

Cyrus word which was from God was the command that set everything in motion.

The work was stopped.

The work was started again.

The 69 weeks ended when Jesus entered the city on a donkey on "Palm Sunday".

Messiah the Prince refers to the Messianic proclamation of the people when Jesus came into the city of Jerusalem, where they cried out Hosanna to the son of David, and laid palm branches down before Him. This event is celebrated even to this day as "Palm Sunday".

Hosanna is a Messianic term from psalms 118 that means "save now"! The priest's were angry with the people and asked Jesus to stop them because this was a reference to be made to YHWH.

Psalm 118:21-26
21 I will praise You, For You have answered me, And have become my salvation. 22 The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief cornerstone. 23 This was the Lord's doing; It is marvelous in our eyes. 24 This is the day the Lord has made; We will rejoice and be glad in it. 25 Save now, I pray, O Lord; O Lord, I pray, send now prosperity. 26 Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord! We have blessed you from the house of the Lord.


9 Then the multitudes who went before and those who followed cried out, saying: "Hosanna to the Son of David! 'Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!' Hosanna in the highest!" 10 And when He had come into Jerusalem, all the city was moved, saying, "Who is this?" 11 So the multitudes said, "This is Jesus, the prophet from Nazareth of Galilee." Matthew 21:9-11

Jesus said if these people don't praise me the stones will cry out.

This was the prophecy from Daniel being fulfilled and nothing in heaven or on earth was going to stop it from coming to pass!

This event marked the end of the 69th week!

1. The work stopping and starting have nothing whatsover to do with it.

2. Jesus riding into Jerusalem is NOT the end of the 69 weeks. Mesisiah is "the anointed one"...Jesus was anointed by God as Messiah at His baptism, that ends the 69th week. God makes the declaration from heaven that Jesus is Messiah. That's why it says "until Messiah the Prince".

3. Jesus announces this Himself as that fulfillment also in Luke 4:17-21:
17 And the book of the prophet Isaiah was handed to Him. And He opened the book and found the place where it was written,
18 “The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, Because He anointed Me to preach the gospel to the poor.
He has sent Me to proclaim release to the captives, And recovery of sight to the blind, To set free those who are oppressed,
19 To proclaim the favorable year of the Lord.”
20 And He closed the book, gave it back to the attendant and sat down; and the eyes of all in the synagogue were fixed on Him. 21 And He began to say to them, “Today this Scripture has been fulfilled in your hearing.”

Five days later, after the 69th week, Messiah was "cut off" on Passover.

26 "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;

JLB

This is where you make your mistake. Jesus baptism and anointing by God ends the 69th week and begins the 70th week.

One last note...Daniel 9:24 lays out what the 70 weeks accomplish:
24 “Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place.

This is what the 70 weeks accomplish as stated above:

1. For "your people" (the Jews), to finish transgression.

2. To make and end of sin.

3. To make atonement for inquity

4. To bring in everlasting righteousness,

5. To seal up the vision and the prophecy.

6. To anoint the most holy place

Those six things are all accomplished in Christ. The Lord Jesus becins the 70th week at His baptism.

 

[JLB777]

You're correct that Cyrus sets things in motion, but if you don't remmeber the the 70 weeks start with the "decree to rebuild Jerusalem"

You ignore the Divine intent and purpose that God raised up Cyrus for.

28 Who says of Cyrus, 'He is My shepherd, And he shall perform all My pleasure, Saying to Jerusalem, "You shall be built," And to the temple, "Your foundation shall be laid." 'Isaiah 44:28

you also ignore the time frame from Matthew 1:17

It all starts with when the children of Israel are to be realeased from captivity.

That is without a doubt from Cyrus.

That is the time frame from Matthew 1:17

You have to start with the entire time of Captivity.

The entire 14 Generations is 560 years.

The time of captivity is 70 years.

To arrive at the time of the going forth of the command we deduct the time of captivity. 70 years.


560 -70 = 490 years

The non stop progressive time from the going forth of the going forth of the command to the birth of Christ. 490 years


16 And Jacob begot Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus who is called Christ. 17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations, from David until the captivity in Babylon are fourteen generations, and from the captivity in Babylon until the Christ are fourteen generations. 18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows...

... from the captivity in Babylon until the Christ are fourteen generations.

That's 70 weeks.

We are looking for 69 weeks.

69 weeks to Messiah the Prince.

490 - 40 = 450 years + 33 years “Birth” to Messiah the Prince 483 years = 69 weeks


JLB

 

[ebedmelech]

You ignore the Divine intent and purpose that God raised up Cyrus for.

28 Who says of Cyrus, 'He is My shepherd, And he shall perform all My pleasure, Saying to Jerusalem, "You shall be built," And to the temple, "Your foundation shall be laid." 'Isaiah 44:28

you also ignore the time frame from Matthew 1:17

It all starts with when the children of Israel are to be realeased from captivity.

That is without a doubt from Cyrus.

That is the time frame from Matthew 1:17

You have to start with the entire time of Captivity.

The entire 14 Generations is 560 years.

The time of captivity is 70 years.

To arrive at the time of the going forth of the command we deduct the time of captivity. 70 years.


560 -70 = 490 years

The non stop progressive time from the going forth of the going forth of the command to the birth of Christ. 490 years


16 And Jacob begot Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus who is called Christ. 17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations, from David until the captivity in Babylon are fourteen generations, and from the captivity in Babylon until the Christ are fourteen generations. 18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows...

... from the captivity in Babylon until the Christ are fourteen generations.

That's 70 weeks.

We are looking for 69 weeks.

69 weeks to Messiah the Prince.

490 - 40 = 450 years + 33 years “Birth” to Messiah the Prince 483 years = 69 weeks


JLB

You're going to see it your way...but this is what you CANNOT deny:
Daniel 9:25:
25 So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress.

That's a pretty specific thing! God said to Daniel to KNOW AND DISCERN...are you discerning that rebuilding Jerusalem and rebuilding the temple are two different things?

That's why God said "KNOW and DISCERN"...the specific thing to end Judah's 70 year captivity is the decree of Cyrus to rebuild the temple. Ezra 1 tells you that.

The specific thing that start the 70 weeks of Daniel 9:24 is the decree of King Artaxerxes to rebuild Jerusalem.

Cyrus decree was given about 539 BC. Artaxerses decree was given about 457 BC.

Now if you go with Cyrus...you got problems. Check out those dates, but also research the history too because there's 79 years between those decrees.

You have to understand the two decrees trigger two events.

*Cyrus decree triggers the fulfillment of the 70 years exile of Judah.

*Artaxerxes decree triggers the 70 weeks until Messiah.

 

[JLB777]

You're going to see it your way...but this is what you CANNOT deny:
Daniel 9:25:
25 So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress.

That's a pretty specific thing! God said to Daniel to KNOW AND DISCERN...are you discerning that rebuilding Jerusalem and rebuilding the temple are two different things?

That's why God said "KNOW and DISCERN"...the specific thing to end Judah's 70 year captivity is the decree of Cyrus to rebuild the temple. Ezra 1 tells you that.

The specific thing that start the 70 weeks of Daniel 9:24 is the decree of King Artaxerxes to rebuild Jerusalem.

Cyrus decree was given about 539 BC. Artaxerses decree was given about 457 BC.

Now if you go with Cyrus...you got problems. Check out those dates, but also research the history too because there's 79 years between those decrees.

You have to understand the two decrees trigger two events.

*Cyrus decree triggers the fulfillment of the 70 years exile of Judah.

*Artaxerxes decree triggers the 70 weeks until Messiah.

If you add and subtract, then you can know that the decree to restore and build Jerusalem came from Cyrus.

16 And Jacob begot Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus who is called Christ. 17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations, from David until the captivity in Babylon are fourteen generations, and from the captivity in Babylon until the Christ are fourteen generations. 18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows...

... from the captivity in Babylon until the Christ are fourteen generations.

That's 70 weeks.

We are looking for 69 weeks.

69 weeks to Messiah the Prince.

490 - 40 = 450 years + 33 years “Birth” to Messiah the Prince 483 years = 69 weeks

The specific structure of the prophecy is as such -


25 "Know therefore and understand, That from the going forth of the command To restore and build Jerusalem Until Messiah the Prince, There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; The street shall be built again, and the wall, Even in troublesome times.

seven weeks

sixty-two weeks

seventy weeks

These time frames are divided in the prophecy for a reason.

seven weeks- gap

sixty two weeks through Messiah the Prince.

verse 26 is the key to understand.

The time frame spans from 33 AD to 70 AD, with no seventieth week yet started.

Cyrus was the one who Commanded the work to start, as the seventy years has run it's course.

Cyrus was the one who God chose to build the city and the sanctuary.


28 Who says of Cyrus, 'He is My shepherd, And he shall perform all My pleasure, Saying to Jerusalem, "You shall be built," And to the temple, "Your foundation shall be laid." 'Isaiah 44:28
That is when the going forth of the command was given, after 70 years.

That is what Matthew 1:17 confirms.


JLB