Is the Great Tribulation impending ?

[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[stephen583]

I just did a Google search. BTW, the Greek word aetos (Luke 17:37, Matthew 24:17) is translated as eagle or vulture.

"FOR WHERESOEVER THE CARCASS IS, THERE WILL THE EAGLES BE GATHERED TOGETHER"
(MATTHEW 24:28).

I've studied all the Bible Commentary of this subject and there appears to be two divergent opinions as to what this passage of Scripture, (actually a prophecy) relates to. Either or both may be correct. It's hard to say, because both interpretations are supported by a great deal of Scriptural evidence that lends credence to their arguments. I'm not going to list all the biblical references, because that would make this post overly long and difficult to view, so I will just give you the Reader's Digest, abridged shorter version.

In the first interpretation, the "carcass" (body) represents the later day "nation" of Israel, and the "eagles" represent the "gentile" nations that will be used by God to "sweep away" the old remains of Israel which is spiritually dead, (and likened to a carcass), thus making way for the creation of a new (restored, remnant nation of Israel afterwards). Biblically speaking, that's what carrion eaters, (scavengers), like eagles and vultures do. They dispose of whatever is dead.

The alternative interpretation is, the "carcass", (transliterated as "body" in some Bible texts) refers to the "body" of the crucified and risen Christ, and the "eagles" refer to the "followers" of Christ and God, who are "gathered" unto him at the Time of the End.

As I said, both of these translations are supported by Scripture. So it's difficult to say whether one or the other, or perhaps even both are correct.

 

[Luke17:37]

Right, the Lamb is always Jesus Christ. He was seen by John symbol-wise two different ways.
Rev. 5- as a Lamb that was slain
Rev. 14 - the time of faith and salvation was over by this time of being seen with an 144,000.

Where do you get that the time of faith and salvation are over in Revelation 14?

 

[Luke17:37]

"FOR WHERESOEVER THE CARCASS IS, THERE WILL THE EAGLES BE GATHERED TOGETHER"
(MATTHEW 24:28).

I've studied all the Bible Commentary of this subject and there appears to be two divergent opinions as to what this passage of Scripture, (actually a prophecy) relates to. Either or both may be correct. It's hard to say, because both interpretations are supported by a great deal of Scriptural evidence that lends credence to their arguments. I'm not going to list all the biblical references, because that would make this post overly long and difficult to view, so I will just give you the Reader's Digest, abridged shorter version.

In the first interpretation, the "carcass" (body) represents the later day "nation" of Israel, and the "eagles" represent the "gentile" nations that will be used by God to "sweep away" the old remains of Israel which is spiritually dead, (and likened to a carcass), thus making way for the creation of a new (restored, remnant nation of Israel afterwards). Biblically speaking, that's what carrion eaters, (scavengers), like eagles and vultures do. They dispose of whatever is dead.

The alternative interpretation is, the "carcass", (transliterated as "body" in some Bible texts) refers to the "body" of the crucified and risen Christ, and the "eagles" refer to the "followers" of Christ and God, who are "gathered" unto him at the Time of the End.

As I said, both of these translations are supported by Scripture. So it's difficult to say whether one or the other, or perhaps even both are correct.

Neither of those perspectives make any sense to me. I think Jesus is speaking plainly but descriptively.

If you're interested, you can read the Bible study lesson I wrote about the taken, the carcasses, and the vultures. If you do, let me know if it helped you in any way.

https://app.box.com/s/zg24s1g30xz8rgxq5q8m4x415ihj01e2

 

[stephen583]

If you're interested, you can read the Bible study lesson I wrote about the taken, the carcasses, and the vultures. If you do, let me know if it helped you in any way.

Sorry, but I've two computers over the last ten years downloading text files. Not saying you're one of the bad guys, but that amounts to a potential loss of fifteen hundred dollars. Perhaps you could just give me the "condensed" Reader's Digest Version in a few words. I don't require chapter and verse proof on every word, nor do I use the absents of such to discredit, or attack the beliefs of others, I don't roll that way. Some of the most profound and enlightening things I ever heard about the meaning of the Scriptures, came from simple men who spoke plainly in just a few words.

 

[Armoured]

People strangely forget Matthew 24:35

But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

In other words, stop trying to predict when any Revelation or Tribulation period will begin or end. We can't know. We will never know. It may be in 3 years or 300 years.

I believe we have a long way to go yet. The global leaders can't even decide on doughnut flavors without an argument flaring up...

But if the Rapture/Tribulation/whatever is imminent, that means we don't have to worry about serious real world issues any more! Plus we get to sit by God's side and laugh while He tortures anyone who was ever mean to us!

IMHO, that's all this eschatology predicting stuff is about. Wishful thinking that every perceived problem and injustice is about to be solved with no effort on the part of the person making the claims.

 

[Luke17:37]

But if the Rapture/Tribulation/whatever is relevant, that means we don't have to worry about serious real world issues any more! Plus we get to sit by God's side and laugh while He tortures anyone who was ever mean to us!

IMHO, that's all this eschatology predicting stuff is about. Wishful thinking that every perceived problem and injustice is about to be solved with no effort on the part of the person making the claims.

Knowing the exact day and hour and gaining a good understanding are not the same thing.

Revelation 1:1
1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place...

1 Thessalonians 5:4-6
4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. 6 Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober.

The things Jesus said in Matthew 24 were written especially for the generation that will see their fulfillment.

Matthew 24:32-35
32 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So you also, when you see all these things [Matthew 24:4-29], know that it is near—at the doors! 34 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.

 

[Armoured]

Knowing the exact day and hour and gaining a good understanding are not the same thing.

Revelation 1:1
1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place...

1 Thessalonians 5:4-6
4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. 6 Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober.

The things Jesus said in Matthew 24 were written especially for the generation that will see their fulfillment.

Matthew 24:32-35
32 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So you also, when you see all these things [Matthew 24:4-29], know that it is near—at the doors! 34 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.

All fine. None of which applies in anything but the vaguest way to today. People have been predicting the end of the world for thousands of years. Many using the exact same Bible verses you are and believing them to apply to their own time.

They've all be wrong. I see nothing in any recent eschatology to suggest anything has changed.

*sigh*

Yeah, I know. "But THIS time is different!"

I've been following this sort of thing for about 20 years. Every time the would be prophet claims "this time is different", and every time they're wrong. But please, go agead and show me what you know that the thousands (millions?) of totally sincere Doomsday forecasters before you got wrong?

 

[Erie79]

Within the next two months a tsunami flood of refugees from Syria and Iraq (4 X the size of the one in September 2015), is going to slam right into Turkey and the shores of Europe. It's going to be the greatest refugee crisis since the Second World War, and it's only going to worsen in the next couple of years as the situation in the Middle East deteriorates.

When NATO moves against Russia in the Ukraine and the Middle East, (which inevitably it will have to), Vladimir Putin will cut off natural gas supplies to Western Europe. China will embargo the West and Iran will close the Straight of Hormuz, (no more made in China, no more Middle East oil). The economic effect on the West is going to be "catastrophic", and I don't think using the word "Apocalyptic" is going to be too strong an adjective either.

Anyone who can't see this coming, is living in a "fantasy" world.

This makes sense.

 

[Armoured]

This makes sense.

Not really.

 

[Luke17:37]

All fine. None of which applies in anything but the vaguest way to today. People have been predicting the end of the world for thousands of years. Many using the exact same Bible verses you are and believing them to apply to their own time.

They've all be wrong. I see nothing in any recent eschatology to suggest anything has changed.

*sigh*

Yeah, I know. "But THIS time is different!"

I've been following this sort of thing for about 20 years. Every time the would be prophet claims "this time is different", and every time they're wrong. But please, go agead and show me what you know that the thousands (millions?) of totally sincere Doomsday forecasters before you got wrong?

I'm not prophesying anything. I'm not going to waste either of our time to show you what I know about false doomsday prophets.

I think it's good for the Church to be aware of what the Bible says about the Tribulation and return of Christ just in case it falls on our generation. (Not saying, "I won't be there.") It seems confessed Christians are increasingly prone to reject sound doctrine from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21 (2 Timothy 4:3). It makes sense that this rejection of truth leads the way for the great apostasy (2 Thessalonians 2), one of two things that must happen before Jesus returns (2 Thessalonians 2:1-3).

Our main orders are to make disciples of all nations, teaching them to obey everything Jesus has commanded. Jesus' entire word (the Bible) contains these things, not just the words in red (2 Timothy 3:16). Being aware of the Tribulation/Return of Christ prophecies (so we can be ready spiritually and mentally to endure suffering while remaining obedient to Jesus and steadfast in faith) is just one element of a person's discipleship.

 

[Goatee]

I think good Christians are not bothered because Jesus said we would not know when it would happen and also if you believe and trust in Jesus why worry about such things?

 

[Luke17:37]

I think good Christians are not bothered because Jesus said we would not know when it would happen and also if you believe and trust in Jesus why worry about such things?

I'll let this be my answer:

1 Thessalonians 5:1-6
5 But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. 6 Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober.

Matthew 24:4-5
4 And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many.

Matthew 24:9-13
9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. 10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved.

Matthew 24:23-28
23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand.
26 “Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it.
27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28 For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.

Awareness is not worry. Jesus spoke strong warnings (to those who confess Christ as their Lord and Savior) for a reason.

2 Thessalonians 2 talks about how the Jesus won't return and gather us until the man of sin is revealed (the Antichrist, or the beast of the sea: see Revelation 13) and the great apostasy (a large number of confessed Christians turning away from the Lord, most likely by committing blasphemy of the Holy Spirit somehow.)

 

[Goatee]

No need to worry at all if you follow Jesus and do as he taught!!

 

[Luke17:37]

No need to worry at all if you follow Jesus and do as he taught!!

Again, I'm not worried.

However, all ten of the virgins in Jesus' parable (Matthew 25) are looking for the bridegroom (awaiting Jesus' return with expectation). They all think they follow Jesus and do as He taught, yet five of them were foolish - HALF - and they do not enter into the presence of the bridegroom as they hope. It is my prayer that people who are unprepared today will ready themselves as one of the wise so they are able to endure.

My concern is for the Church. Yeah, I know there's the elect and there are the people who are going to be deceived. Nothing I say or do can convince a person who is not elect to open his eyes and see. However, just as Christians have the responsibility to share the gospel with a world who doesn't know Him, and God uses Christians in the process of bringing people to faith, I feel a certain responsibility promote seeing among the brethren.

 

[Goatee]

Again, I'm not worried.

However, all ten of the virgins in Jesus' parable (Matthew 25) are looking for the bridegroom (awaiting Jesus' return with expectation). They all think they follow Jesus and do as He taught, yet five of them were foolish - HALF - and they do not enter into the presence of the bridegroom as they hope. It is my prayer that people who are unprepared today will ready themselves as one of the wise so they are able to endure.

My concern is for the Church. Yeah, I know there's the elect and there are the people who are going to be deceived. Nothing I say or do can convince a person who is not elect to open his eyes and see. However, just as Christians have the responsibility to share the gospel with a world who doesn't know Him, and God uses Christians in the process of bringing people to faith, I feel a certain responsibility promote seeing among the brethren.

Good. Glad you are helping others. God Bless you

 

[vinsight4u]

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[Goatee]

Thing is, we shouldn't be reading it the way we see it in our modern language! In those days, words and sentences meant different things! People lived differently. We could be interpreting quite wrongly!

 

[vinsight4u]

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