Is the authority of a council biblical?

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Does a Church council have authority to make declarations and then pass it before the people to ask their approval?

Do we see a biblical model for the use of councils within The Church?

Mat 18:19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.

Forgive me...

 

[Hentenza]

No, but am sure that you are going to use the "council" of Jerusalem as proof.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Specifically I would ask if the Church had the authority to "set" the method for calculating when to "end the great fast" and begin the Paschal resurrection celebration... AKA "Great and Holy Pascha" AKA "Easter".

Forgive me...

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

No, but am sure that you are going to use the "council" of Jerusalem as proof.

Hi Henry!

Forgive me...

 

[MrPolo]

Yes. Acts 15.

 

[Pythons]

Yes, Acts 1,1-2.... God speaks commandments via those "He selected".

 

[Standing Up]

Does a Church council have authority to make declarations and then pass it before the people to ask their approval?

Do we see a biblical model for the use of councils within The Church?

Mat 18:19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.

Forgive me...

Only within the context of "as it is written".

Acts 15 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,

They and we have been commanded not to add to or subtract from.

Deut. 4:2 "You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Rev. 22:18-19 I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book.

Elders should assemble to decide, using the same as James "as it is written".

 

[Standing Up]

Specifically I would ask if the Church had the authority to "set" the method for calculating when to "end the great fast" and begin the Paschal resurrection celebration... AKA "Great and Holy Pascha" AKA "Easter".

Forgive me...

Most folks may not know that a council decided when they should celebrate, as opposed to when scripture says.

Nicea:
We ought not, therefore, to have anything in common with the Jews, for the Saviour has shown us another way

c600 Saint Columbanus to Pope Gregory:
Of what worth, I ask, is this sentence, so frivolous and so rude and resting, as it does, on no testimonies of sacred Scripture; We ought not to keep the Passover with the Jews? What has it to do with the question? Are the reprobate Jews to be supposed to keep the Passover now, seeing that they are without a temple, outside Jerusalem, and Christ, who was formerly prefigured, having been crucified by them? Or, can it be rightly supposed that the 14th day of the moon for the Passover was of their own appointment, and is it not rather to be acknowledged to be of God’s, who alone knew clearly with what mysterious meaning the 14th day of the moon was chosen for the passage [out of Egypt].


Scripture--Christ died on the 14th.

Council--celebrate it on the first sunday after the first full moon after the vernal equinox. Apart from the 24 hours of continuous light prefigured by God, whereby Christ overcame darkness.

 

[MrPolo]

Only within the context of "as it is written".

I don't understand what your post means. Do you mean councils should consult Scripture?

 

[Standing Up]

I don't understand what your post means. Do you mean councils should consult Scripture?

Councils should consult Scripture yes. James concluded, as it is written.

Peter opened the door to the Jews and to the Gentiles. Paul and Barnabas confirming. James said, yep, this agrees with Scripture. Therefore, ...

Councils have no authority to contradict Scripture. Is that a Canon? Deut. and Rev. said, do not add, do not take away from.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Councils should consult Scripture yes. James concluded, as it is written.

Of course the consult scriptures... but on matters that there is no teaching about... where do you go?

St. James did not quote anything that would lead us to the final decision that he rendered (ACTS 15:16-17)... that is to say... no prophet ever said that the gentiles do not need to be circumcised. In fact... far the opposite was said of those comeing into Judaism.

I don't think "as it is written" could be used here.

Forgive me...

 

[Standing Up]

Of course the consult scriptures... but on matters that there is no teaching about... where do you go?

St. James did not quote anything that would lead us to the final decision that he rendered (ACTS 15:16-17)... that is to say... no prophet ever said that the gentiles do not need to be circumcised. In fact... far the opposite was said of those comeing into Judaism.

I don't think "as it is written" could be used here.

Forgive me...

Sure he did. As it is written, Acts 15:16, 17, 18 quoting from Amos and alluding to other scripture. Same as Paul's followup to the council in Galatians.

There were two parties, the Apostles/elders versus the Pharisee sect who believed. The council ruled not out of thin air, but "as it is written". What you don't see is the Pharisee sect citing scripture, just opinion.

 

[Christos Anesti]

duplicate

 

[Christos Anesti]

Councils have no authority to contradict Scripture.

I definitely agree with that. The truly ecumenical councils derive their teachings from the Scriptures as exegeted by the Church and its God illumined Saints. If a council contradicted the Scriptures it would have no authority within the Church and it would be the duty of Christians to reject it.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Make up a story...

I do understand that is your perception of The Orthodox Churches... however, I would like to ask just how that would work.

In the Orthodox Church you have to have everyone's agreement. It's not a top down organization. It's from the bottom up.

The Laity are the controling vote.

Someone would have to do a lot of running around campaining for "change"... and that's not something that the Orthodox are willing to do.

What Saint did you have in mind when you said "make up a story"?

Forgive me...

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Wrong. The majority of the laity were Arian at one time. It gives the apperance of being laity controlled but is infact fascist.

You mean fascism?

So... you don't think the laity approved of the council of 325AD?

Forgive me...

(I was adding to my post when you replied.. sorry.)

 

[Livindesert]

You mean fascism?

So... you don't think the laity approved of the council of 325AD?

Forgive me...

(I was adding to my post when you replied.. sorry.)

Nope they were fed from the top down. It is like a dictatorship that holds fake elections.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Nope they were fed from the top down. It is like a dictatorship that holds fake elections.

So... You believe that...

The Church of Jerusalem
The Church of Antioch
The Church of Alexandria
The Church of Constantinople
and
The Church of Rome

... ALL conspired to fake the results of these councils and forged the concensus agreements?

Forgive me...

 

[Standing Up]

So... You believe that...

The Church of Jerusalem
The Church of Antioch
The Church of Alexandria
The Church of Constantinople
and
The Church of Rome

... ALL conspired to fake the results of these councils and forged the concensus agreements?

Forgive me...

Bit strong in the language, but c120, sometime after Jerusalem destruction, it was the Palestinian bishops who first "comprehended the propriety" of adopting the Roman custom of observing Sunday sunrise resurrection (and death on the 15th).

Again, remember the "smoking gun".

 

[Livindesert]

So... You believe that...

The Church of Jerusalem
The Church of Antioch
The Church of Alexandria
The Church of Constantinople
and
The Church of Rome

... ALL conspired to fake the results of these councils and forged the concensus agreements?

Forgive me...

Yes. 5 Bishops conspired. Plus according to one council Nestorius was correct until a bribed and coerced Emperor changed the councils outcome.