Is Jesus a good role model?

[Jesusismyhero11]

Greetings friends.

Me and my dad were discussing this question the other night.
Me being a christian, and he being a atheist made it a interesting discussion.
I really wish to convince him that Jesus is a good role model, but we did not get out chance to finish. I am asking for inputs from you guys, so that I could be more prepared for the next time it comes up.
Everyone has their own perceptions, but the questions I have been asking myself are following:

-What is a role model? Do we need them or should we only listen to ourselves?

-What did Jesus stand for that can be admired by others?

-My dad claimed that Jesus did "some things" that werent consistent with today values.. What do you think of this? Of course, he did not give any concrete examples, so I do not know what he meant by saying so..

-People that have been inspired by Jesus. (Example: Martin Luther King jr. stood up against the majority in the USA such as Jesus stood up against the pharisees.) Can you think of anyone else?

-A story I showed my dad was the Parable of the Good Samaritan. I really think this is a good story that gives a good picture of who Jesus was. I am trying to find good stories like this one from the bible that shows how Jesus was tolerant, brave and a good role model. Could anyone recomend something?

Every answer is appreciated very much and I hope we can create a good discussion out of this

Have a nice day everyone. Best regards.

 

[Cearbhall]

I really wish to convince him that Jesus is a good role model, but we did not get out chance to finish. I am asking for inputs from you guys, so that I could be more prepared for the next time it comes up.

He was for the most part, yeah...

 

[MorkandMindy]

Talking about the teachings of Jesus is more of a humanist / liberal Christianity topic. The churches are more involved in the daily battle against sin, remaining a safe haven for their children from drug abuse and declaring victory over sin and Satan.

There is more in the Bible about David defeating the Philistines and Joshua and the Judges eliminating all the sinners in the Holy Land to make it suitable for occupation than teachings by Jesus per se, and although there is lofty teaching in church, I never heard it discussed after the sermon and I got the impression there was a lot of selective hearing. On questions such as who is the victim in alcoholism or drug addiction the response of the church is pretty clear, and one of Margaret Thatcher's most memorable statements, I think it was a different topic but still one of which is the victim variety, as an outstanding Methodist was 'Crime is crime is crime'. Church members tend to be strong on law enforcement. I think getting the ordinary churches involved would just complicate everything, best to leave the church out and read what the Liberals and Humanists say I would suggest.

 

[Locutus]

The churches are more involved in the daily battle against sin, remaining a safe haven for their children from drug abuse and declaring victory over sin and Satan.

.

Are the stats for kids from churchy families much better in terms of drug abuse? How about teen pregnancy?

 

[Locutus]

Greetings friends.

Me and my dad were discussing this question the other night.
Me being a christian, and he being a atheist made it a interesting discussion.
I really wish to convince him that Jesus is a good role model, but we did not get out chance to finish. I am asking for inputs from you guys, so that I could be more prepared for the next time it comes up.
Everyone has their own perceptions, but the questions I have been asking myself are following:

-What is a role model? Do we need them or should we only listen to ourselves?

-What did Jesus stand for that can be admired by others?

-My dad claimed that Jesus did "some things" that werent consistent with today values.. What do you think of this? Of course, he did not give any concrete examples, so I do not know what he meant by saying so..

-People that have been inspired by Jesus. (Example: Martin Luther King jr. stood up against the majority in the USA such as Jesus stood up against the pharisees.) Can you think of anyone else?

-A story I showed my dad was the Parable of the Good Samaritan. I really think this is a good story that gives a good picture of who Jesus was. I am trying to find good stories like this one from the bible that shows how Jesus was tolerant, brave and a good role model. Could anyone recomend something?

Every answer is appreciated very much and I hope we can create a good discussion out of this

Have a nice day everyone. Best regards.

There are plenty of old myths and stories about prophets and earthly gods etc who were great role models. Some were even 'good and kind' in ways we recognise today. I would imagine you can find the perfect role model from among them, if it's important to you to do so.

 

[quatona]

Greetings friends.

Me and my dad were discussing this question the other night.
Me being a christian, and he being a atheist made it a interesting discussion.
I really wish to convince him that Jesus is a good role model, but we did not get out chance to finish. I am asking for inputs from you guys, so that I could be more prepared for the next time it comes up.
Everyone has their own perceptions, but the questions I have been asking myself are following:

-What is a role model? Do we need them or should we only listen to ourselves?

-What did Jesus stand for that can be admired by others?

-My dad claimed that Jesus did "some things" that werent consistent with today values.. What do you think of this? Of course, he did not give any concrete examples, so I do not know what he meant by saying so..

-People that have been inspired by Jesus. (Example: Martin Luther King jr. stood up against the majority in the USA such as Jesus stood up against the pharisees.) Can you think of anyone else?

-A story I showed my dad was the Parable of the Good Samaritan. I really think this is a good story that gives a good picture of who Jesus was. I am trying to find good stories like this one from the bible that shows how Jesus was tolerant, brave and a good role model. Could anyone recomend something?

Every answer is appreciated very much and I hope we can create a good discussion out of this

Have a nice day everyone. Best regards.

I don´t think we know much about those aspects of his life that would apply to my everyday life. I guess (assuming that Jesus existed, for a moment) the bible tells us just about some significant highlights of his life, and is silent about 99% of his actions.
On another note, it seems to me that picking an alleged semi-God (who has a completely different background than us, totally different capabilities etc.) is a strange approach.

 

[Haasrecht]

Yes, of course, Jesus is a good role model. He is the role model for Christians.

When talking to non-Christians about this topic, the two most common 'complaints' you will hear are about turning the other cheek and hell. Those are the two that are incessantly brought up by non-Christians to argue that Jesus was not a good role model nor were his teachings. If you want to prepare for a discussion about it, those are the two things I would anticipate.

 

[jayem]

I'll mention one of Jesus' sayings which to me is very questionable:

"He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathers not with me scatters abroad." Matt. 12:30

The plain meaning here is that if you are not a follower of Jesus, you are not just mistaken, or unsaved. You are an enemy. I'm familiar with various commentaries claiming that in context, Jesus was only talking to the Pharisees. But the text never states that explicitly. And if Jesus always spoke universal truth, then his pronouncements should applicable to everyone. At this risk of getting warned, I have to say that this is a terrible message. It's saying that non-believers are unrighteous adversaries. Similar to what Islamic extremists say about non-Muslims.

Much of Jesus' moral teaching is quite good--but so are the teachings of Zoroaster, and the Buddha, and Socrates. And you don't find this attitude toward non-believers in them.

 

[MehGuy]

The best role model there is!

 

[Soyeong]

Greetings friends.

Me and my dad were discussing this question the other night.
Me being a christian, and he being a atheist made it a interesting discussion.
I really wish to convince him that Jesus is a good role model, but we did not get out chance to finish. I am asking for inputs from you guys, so that I could be more prepared for the next time it comes up.
Everyone has their own perceptions, but the questions I have been asking myself are following:

-What is a role model? Do we need them or should we only listen to ourselves?

-What did Jesus stand for that can be admired by others?

-My dad claimed that Jesus did "some things" that werent consistent with today values.. What do you think of this? Of course, he did not give any concrete examples, so I do not know what he meant by saying so..

-People that have been inspired by Jesus. (Example: Martin Luther King jr. stood up against the majority in the USA such as Jesus stood up against the pharisees.) Can you think of anyone else?

-A story I showed my dad was the Parable of the Good Samaritan. I really think this is a good story that gives a good picture of who Jesus was. I am trying to find good stories like this one from the bible that shows how Jesus was tolerant, brave and a good role model. Could anyone recomend something?

Every answer is appreciated very much and I hope we can create a good discussion out of this

Have a nice day everyone. Best regards.

A role model a person looked to by others as an example to be imitated. We believe that it is good for our children to learn certain values, so we look for people who exemplify those values. If we do not appeal to a standard that is outside of human opinion, then it becomes is impossible for someone to say that one set of values is better than another set of values without them appealing to their values, which makes it impossible to justify that their values are the ones should be appealed to. So for example, if Group A values raping and pillaging and Group B values pacifism, the way that you determine which you think is right is by which most closely corresponds to your values, but how do you know that you value the right things? Today's values are inconsistent with the values that Jesus taught and vice versa, so how do you say which set of values is right? There would have to be some outside standard to measure your values against.

I think we can agree that there are certain things that should or shouldn't be tolerated, so the disagreement is not about whether we should be tolerant, but about which things should be tolerated. If you value people not being murdered, then you are intolerant of murder, so there are things that it is good to be intolerant about, assuming that our values are correct. So it is impossible to convince someone that a person is a good role model unless they are first convinced that the values they exemplify are good. As a Christian, the outside standard for our values is based on God's character, but an atheist can't justify their values on their worldview. You might find this video interesting:

 

[MorkandMindy]

Are the stats for kids from churchy families much better in terms of drug abuse? How about teen pregnancy?

In the US the higher the level of church attendance and the more Bible-believing the churches are the worse all indicators of anything that makes life bearable become. That is in the Deep South aka 'Bible Belt'. But I guess a lot of Christians would love it there, almost nobody believes in evolution or education or any of that new fangled stuff, and poverty and homicide are more prevalent as is divorce and teen pregnancy and voting Republican.

The Human Development Index is higher in areas such as Massachusetts which are the exact opposite.


This is not necessarily a failing of Christianity but just of the sort that is very common in the USA.

To put it differently, 35% of Americans are born-again Christians and many more are faithful church attenders, but overall none of it seems to have made any difference to the nation. It has four times the homicide rate agnostic Britain has and ditto for Europe, with far fewer Christians and far more Muslims.

They've mostly got it wrong over here.

If you want the most useful and favorable impression of the teachings of Jesus talk to the Liberals here or almost any church in Britain or Europe.

 

[The Cadet]

This is not necessarily a failing of Christianity but just of the sort that is very common in the USA.

I will say that Christianity makes it extremely easy to justify. After all, if we're all broken, evil people, what's wrong with my particular broken evil? So long as I beg Jesus for forgiveness... After all, it's not like my bullying, rape, or muder is any worse than my neighbor's pride in his new car, or my other neighbor's sexual thoughts towards my wife.

 

[The Cadet]

With regards to the topic: Jesus said some very nice things. He also demanded that his followers leave their families, without even telling them where they were going or that they were going, or giving them the chance to follow. He came to turn brother against brother. He set up a divisive "us against them" morality. Even in the Sermon on the Mount, there is a lot of really bad advice. He's not awful, but the way people hold him up as the role model to end all role models kind of is.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

I dont feel he's a role model in all regards, as he ought to have had a more dignified death.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Greetings friends.

Me and my dad were discussing this question the other night.
Me being a christian, and he being a atheist made it a interesting discussion.
I really wish to convince him that Jesus is a good role model, but we did not get out chance to finish. I am asking for inputs from you guys, so that I could be more prepared for the next time it comes up.
Everyone has their own perceptions, but the questions I have been asking myself are following:

-What is a role model? Do we need them or should we only listen to ourselves?

-What did Jesus stand for that can be admired by others?

-My dad claimed that Jesus did "some things" that werent consistent with today values.. What do you think of this? Of course, he did not give any concrete examples, so I do not know what he meant by saying so..

-People that have been inspired by Jesus. (Example: Martin Luther King jr. stood up against the majority in the USA such as Jesus stood up against the pharisees.) Can you think of anyone else?

-A story I showed my dad was the Parable of the Good Samaritan. I really think this is a good story that gives a good picture of who Jesus was. I am trying to find good stories like this one from the bible that shows how Jesus was tolerant, brave and a good role model. Could anyone recomend something?

Every answer is appreciated very much and I hope we can create a good discussion out of this

Have a nice day everyone. Best regards.

Martin Luther King Jr was an adulterer. It's easy to forget about the shortcomings and downright awful aspects of a person once you begin to idolize them into something they were not. I don't think there are many good role models...not alive anyway.

I'm curious as to why you want to "convince" your father that Jesus is a good role model when you already know that he's an atheist? Is it your hope that through this conversation your dad will open up to the possibility of becoming a christian? Does he try to convince you to abandon your faith and become an atheist? Or do you respect each other's beliefs and this was nothing more than a friendly conversation?

 

[Eryk]

We can recognize the accomplishments of famous people and regard their private lives as historically irrelevant, except to biographers. King's speeches and activism were important and sorely needed. Nothing changes that. But this is a complicated case because it's appropriate to see him as a moral exemplar in his activism, and then we have to compartmentalize when we go beyond that.

Immanuel Kant said, "Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made."

About Jesus: there is actually some debate in Christianity about whether Jesus should be seen as a role model. He's a unique person because he is divine, so "being like him" would amount to proclaiming yourself God. And some believe that the whole point of his life is his redemptive work, which no other person can accomplish. Some protestant Christians don't want to go beyond the doctrine of justification when we think about Jesus.

But the idea that Jesus is a role model is still pretty standard. But even when you have a perfectly moral model, you still have to put that person's actions into context, e.g. the use of invective in Jesus' culture. There is no escaping our responsibility to use our reason and to heed the warnings of our consciences - and those who don't will look for excuses for evil in the life-stories of the most saintly people.

 

[Goonie]

Apologies but when anybody asks what Jesus would do...

 

[quatona]

Not to mention cursing plants for not bearing fruit.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

View attachment 169107
Apologies but when anybody asks what Jesus would do...

He was for the most part, yeah...

You are both taking that out of context. Jesus was doing something good by chasing those people out of the Temple. He has no tolerance for thievery, corruption, and greed, especially not when it's in His Father's house.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

Here is an example of God showing His mercy:

"but Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. Early in the morning he came again to the temple; all the people came to him, and he sat down and taught them. The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in adultery, and placing her in the midst they said to him, 'Teacher, this woman has been caught in the act of adultery. Now in the law Moses commanded us to stone such. What do you say about her?' This they said to test him, that they might have some charge to bring against him. Jesus bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground. And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, 'Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.' And once more he bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground. But when they heard it, they went away, one by one, beginning with the eldest, and Jesus was left alone with the woman standing before him. Jesus looked up and said to her, 'Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?' She said, 'No one, Lord.' And Jesus said, 'Neither do I condemn you; go, and do not sin again.'" - Jn 8:1-11