Is Harry Potter Evil? (2)

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Danyc

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What are we going to do tonight Harry?


Why Hermione, the same thing we do every night, try to take over the world
pinkybrain.jpg


Yea ok, some bad humour


It just amuses me that we are almost up to thread three and I still have yet to hear a coherant arguement what Harry is so bad

Hahah, that was great. You just made my day (well, night)
 
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CaDan

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If there is a category in a school which is being taught, the fact that it is given this credence, regardless of public opinion gives it credence on a subconscious level.

I thought your theory of mind and action was that every action comes from thought. What is this "subconscious" you speak of?
 
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JWNEWMAN

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Quite right; conversion therapy, it's also called.
I was skimming, I didn't see your bridge "as a side note" followed by the article. This starts to smack of politics you show me your stats I'll show you mine. One poll says Hilary's winning the other has her 10 points behind.

I believe the word of God is true. Psychology.... eh, later.
 
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JWNEWMAN

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There isn't an illusion of anonymity; we really are anonymous. At any rate, Anonymity causes our true selves to shine through; we don't have as much fear when talking about other people online. It would be less productive to talk offline than it would be to talk online.
Believe me it's only an illusion.
 
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JWNEWMAN

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Just fuel for your and Dannager's discussion

You two had been talking about the treatment of pedophilia so I provided some material for you to go off of
*shrugs*

I missed your "side note"


You'd have to give me a psychologist's opinion on this.
Think about it. You're looking through the list of college courses available. You note there is a whole section on parapsychology. Most of the students think its a joke. Yet there it is in black and white in the curriculum; giving it credence, no matter the general consensus.
 
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JWNEWMAN

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Hahaha

JWNEWMAN, social deviancy is the focus of my field. I can tell you with absolute certainty that the number of people who actually act on their wild fantasies is incredibly small compared to the number of people who hold them.

You might be certain, but that doesn't make it true. First of all what goes on behind closed doors in the "security" of the home isn't yet common knowledge. Your studies and information is based on statistics that don't relate real world events.

I can also tell you with absolute certainty that it is far better to provide a harmless outlet for deviant tendencies than to try and suppress them. Suppression generally tends not to work very well.

I never suggested suppression. Thoughts create feelings. Change your thoughts change your feelings. Of course that's an oversimplification but it is essentially the truth. There is no such thing as a harmless outlet for deviant behavior. Deviant behavior indulged only supports the pattern of behavior and more deeply embeds said pattern wholly condemning the individual to the behavior rather then dealing with the root cause your feeding it.

In psychology just as in many fields of medicine there are numerous theories abounding regarding method of treatment. Some which condemn the practice of the others. Psychology is anything but an exact science. Education can be a great thing. However, education doesn't imply intelligence or common sense. There are many educated fools running around in the world. One only need look at the condition of the world to see that is true.
 
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Danyc

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I missed your "side note"

It's no problem


Think about it. You're looking through the list of college courses available. You note there is a whole section on parapsychology. Most of the students think its a joke. Yet there it is in black and white in the curriculum; giving it credence, no matter the general consensus.

I didn't know most people think it is a joke; I think it is quite useful and has credence. It may not be an exact science, but it is a helpful one, nevertheless.

Your pseudo-analogy doesn't work here, because in Harry's World, you are shown that it has no credence. The teacher can't even read palms or crystal balls accurately. Other teachers disapprove of this 'woolly' subject, as does Hermione, the three heroes' smartest kid.

The situation you describe is me not knowing whether it has credence or not, and I would have to take the word of the other kids on it; in HP, you do know the credence of such a class; the teacher can't even do what her subject entails right in front of you.

And no, if I got to that psychology class and found it had no credence, I wouldn't look beyond anymore; I would snicker at it like all the rest and probably switch classes, unless that class was an easy credit or something like that.
 
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drifter5

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There is. It makes perfect sense; experts in the field agree with me and Dannager. You say if one repeatedly imagines an act, one will carry it out. Not so, even with pedophiles. You don't seem to understand that in taking out their sexual desire by watching little children in animations, it curbs their then-and-there desire to interact directly with children in the real world. It is exactly like masturbation:

Most masturbation is done while fantasizing about having sex; this is pretty much fact. The one who is doing the deed takes out their sexual desire through masturbation; when they are finished, the desire is gone, for then. It will probably come back up, but they can touch, it's no problem.

This analogy is perfect.


As a sidenote, here's a passage from Wikipedia on the treatment of pedophilia:
Treatment

A number of proposed treatment techniques for pedophilia have been developed. In 1981, writer David Crawford reported that the success rate of these therapies was very low.[47] Crawford's article did not address the use of Depo-Provera, today the most common drug used to decrease libido in sex offenders. Dr. Fred Berlin, founder of the Johns Hopkins Sexual Disorders Clinic, believes pedophilia can "indeed be successfully treated," if only the medical community would give it more attention.[20]
British inventor Adam Hildreth developed a computer program to catch internet sex offenders who pose as children. The software analyzes the user's language patterns in comparison to his age. Adults use more sophisticated phrases and punctuation than children in writing, and so the software can identify adults who pretend to be children. [48]

Medical therapies

Anti-androgenic medications such as Depo Provera may be used to lower testosterone levels, and are often used in conjunction with the non-medical approaches above. (This is commonly referred to as "chemical castration.") Gonadotropin-releasing hormone analogues, which last longer and have less side effects, are also effective in reducing libido and may be used.[49]
Other programs induce an association of illegal behavior with pain by means of the more controversial aversion therapy, in which the pedophile is given an electric shock while fantasizing.[50] A study by the Council on Scientific Affairs found that the success rate of aversion therapy was parallel to that of homosexual reparative therapy; that is to say, extremely low.[51] This method is rarely used on pedophiles who have not offended.
Convicted sex offenders, including many pedophiles, have been treated by the psychosurgical procedure commonly known as lobotomization. Psychosurgery has long been controversial, particularly the historical use of surgical intervention on homosexuals given that homosexuality is no longer considered a mental illness by the psychiatric community (see for instance Rieber et al. 1976;[52] Sigusch 1977;[53] Rieber & Sigusch 1979;[54][55] Lobotomies are generally no longer practiced and are prohibited in a number of countries.
Thalamotomy is an alternative surgical treatment of sex offenders in practice since the problems with leucotomy have been commonly known (see Greist 1990;[56] Diering & Bell 1991;[57] Hay & Sachdev 1992;[58] Rappaport 1992;[59] de la Porte 1993;[60] Poynton 1993;[61] Bridges et al. 1994;[62] Cummings et al. 1995)[63] and is increasingly advertised as an "effective therapy" for sex offenders (as well as for some children suffering from symptoms of child sexual abuse, since the 1980s (see for instance Andy 1970;[64] Bradford 1988a;[65] Wyre & Swift 1991;[66] Abel et al. 1992;[67] Bridges et al.[62] Cummings et al. 1995).[63] As Levey and Curfman have noted, however, given the availability of psychopharmacological treatment options, psychosurgical interventions are not likely to be employed given their extreme side effects and irreversible nature. See the same article for an in depth review of treatment options and diagnostic criteria. Additionally Reid 2002 writes that neurosurgery for sex offenders is "essentially unavailable" in the United States and that data on its use is sparse.[68]
Klaus M. Beier of the Institute of Sexology and Sexual Medicine at Charité, a large university hospital in Berlin, Germany, reported success in a preliminary study using role-play therapy and medicine. According to researchers, the pedophiles were better able to control their urges once they understood the pre-pubescent youth's view.[69][70] Schorsch & Schmidt 1979) 1994;





It's being taught in a school by a teacher who everyone thinks is a total fraud; other teachers think the same way. McGonogall, one of the more influential instructors, disapproves.
You do not think children are smart enough not to be interested in something when it is called laughable and stupid, but you give them enough credit to rationalize that because it's in school, it must have validity, even when the teacher herself, and other teachers at said school, believe it to be rubbish?

You have a strange view of children's minds.
If you feed addictions they can certainly get worse. It is fuel for the addiction.
 
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Danyc

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I was skimming, I didn't see your bridge "as a side note" followed by the article. This starts to smack of politics you show me your stats I'll show you mine. One poll says Hilary's winning the other has her 10 points behind.

I believe the word of God is true. Psychology.... eh, later.

I would believe a professional in the field of the human mind on how often imagination relates to action.

It actually has scientific backing.

The Bible...eh, later.
 
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Danyc

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If you feed addictions they can certainly get worse.

Yes, let's just not feed them, then we can have more pedophiles out and about fondling kids instead of safe at home watching inappropriate contentography.

The only way to justify this is with an ideal scenario, a scenario that won't ever happen (not until Christ's Return, anyway). The safest route to take right now, for the good of our children, is to allow it to be legal. Kids are not directly hurt by pedophiles viewing such inappropriate contentography; they are hurt by pedophiles actually acting upon their desires instead of taking them out on a harmless source.
 
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drifter5

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Yes, let's just not feed them, then we can have more pedophiles out and about fondling kids instead of safe at home watching inappropriate contentography.

The only way to justify this is with an ideal scenario, a scenario that won't ever happen (not until Christ's Return, anyway). The safest route to take right now, for the good of our children, is to allow it to be legal. Kids are not directly hurt by pedophiles viewing such inappropriate contentography; they are hurt by pedophiles actually acting upon their desires instead of taking them out on a harmless source.
inappropriate contentography , of any kind, is NOT harmless.
 
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JWNEWMAN

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It's no problem

I didn't know most people think it is a joke; I think it is quite useful and has credence. It may not be an exact science, but it is a helpful one, nevertheless.

It wasn't a REAL scenario just a suggested one. psychology isn't a science either.

Your pseudo-analogy doesn't work here, because in Harry's World, you are shown that it has no credence. The teacher can't even read palms or crystal balls accurately. Other teachers disapprove of this 'woolly' subject, as does Hermione, the three heroes' smartest kid.

All you need is a word recorded in your memory given to you in the proper setting to plant the seed of curiosity.

The situation you describe is me not knowing whether it has credence or not, and I would have to take the word of the other kids on it; in HP, you do know the credence of such a class; the teacher can't even do what her subject entails right in front of you.

Your missing my point. Subliminal messages.

And no, if I got to that psychology class and found it had no credence, I wouldn't look beyond anymore; I would snicker at it like all the rest and probably switch classes, unless that class was an easy credit or something like that.

Parapsychology not psychology. I've learned to look before I laugh. Done a lot of looking. Love to laugh.
 
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JWNEWMAN

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Yes, let's just not feed them, then we can have more pedophiles out and about fondling kids instead of safe at home watching inappropriate contentography.

The only way to justify this is with an ideal scenario, a scenario that won't ever happen (not until Christ's Return, anyway). The safest route to take right now, for the good of our children, is to allow it to be legal. Kids are not directly hurt by pedophiles viewing such inappropriate contentography; they are hurt by pedophiles actually acting upon their desires instead of taking them out on a harmless source.
What source material are you using to suggest that indulgence is a cure for depraved behavior? Does the same apply to serial killers? Rapists? Masochists?
 
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Danyc

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What source material are you using to suggest that indulgence is a cure for depraved behavior? Does the same apply to serial killers? Rapists? Masochists?

When did I say it is a cure? I never said such a thing.

Yes, I firmly believe that the same would apply to rapists, serial killers and masochists.

Think about this: Would you rather have a serial killer out killing in the real world, or killing in his fantasies? Which would you like best?

The correct answer is neither, obviously. But that won't ever happen, because it is an ideal situation. The safest route is harmless appeasement in light of the situation.
 
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Danyc

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It wasn't a REAL scenario just a suggested one. psychology isn't a science either.

Nevertheless it tries to make a point which I responded to. And psychology deals with the human mind; it is a science, even if it isn't exact.



All you need is a word recorded in your memory given to you in the proper setting to plant the seed of curiosity.

As I said before, I'd need a psychologist's opinion on this.



Your missing my point. Subliminal messages.

Psychologist's opinion would be helpful



Parapsychology not psychology. I've learned to look before I laugh. Done a lot of looking. Love to laugh.

The subject that is being taught means nothing to the scenario; heck, throw World History in there. If I found that it had no credence and that the teacher knew nothing, the teachers disapproved, and all the other kids did as well, I'd be switching classes fast.
 
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JWNEWMAN

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Yes, let's just not feed them, then we can have more pedophiles out and about fondling kids instead of safe at home watching inappropriate contentography.

The only way to justify this is with an ideal scenario, a scenario that won't ever happen (not until Christ's Return, anyway). The safest route to take right now, for the good of our children, is to allow it to be legal. Kids are not directly hurt by pedophiles viewing such inappropriate contentography; they are hurt by pedophiles actually acting upon their desires instead of taking them out on a harmless source.
Allowing indulgence suggests acceptance of the behavior. It only feeds the desire and weakens moral resolve. People can, it they decide to, change. The bible calls it renewing the mind. Removing absolutes, right and wrong, from our vocabulary is an attempt to remove acknowledgment of sinful behavior. Suggesting one can not change accepts defeat and condemns a soul to the mastery of an evil conscience.

I'm not suggesting allowing depravity to run unchecked. But making depravity legal only lowers the moral standard another bar. Where does one stop? The huge problem we are facing is the loss of our moral center. We are no longer ashamed of our sins.
 
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JWNEWMAN

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Nevertheless it tries to make a point which I responded to. And psychology deals with the human mind; it is a science, even if it isn't exact.

It's not a science by my definition: http://www.arachnoid.com/psychology/index.html


As I said before, I'd need a psychologist's opinion on this.

And you would believe him/her?


Psychologist's opinion would be helpful
It could be. It could also be completely inaccurate.


The subject that is being taught means nothing to the scenario; heck, throw World History in there. If I found that it had no credence and that the teacher knew nothing, the teachers disapproved, and all the other kids did as well, I'd be switching classes fast.

Well then you are swayed to easily by the voice of the crowd.
 
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