Independant Woman, to Getting Married

[Sascha Fitzpatrick]

I have a lot of female friends who were very independant before they got married - as in did not like anyone helping them out with stuff, felt that anything a guy could do, they could do, quite liked having their own money to do whatever they wanted, and hated hearing about women who loved having men to help them out with stuff - often looked down their noses at these women for being 'needy, clingy, co-dependant' etc etc. I must admit, I can get pretty independant, and frustrated when B wants to help 'fix' all my issues (especially financially - I don't want to feel like I can't survive financially unless he's around).

I'm sure there's heaps of women in here who were pretty aggressively independant before they got married - how did you adjust? I'm getting to a place where marriage isn't that far off for me, so I'm having to incorporate B into my life more and more, with helping out with stuff, and I don't want to feel like I NEED him there to do stuff, but don't want him to feel like my independance is going to push him out of our relationship (if that makes sense).

How do you adjust to being part of a team? Whether you are from the 'women submit' team (which I am, but am scared my stubbornness will combat that), or 'everything is equal in life' team - how did you adjust, when all of a sudden there is a guy there who wants to help 'fix' things (isn't that their inherant nature) all the time, and you used to feel 'less than worthwhile' when someone used to do that when you were single?

Any advice? Life stories?

Sasch

 

[Andy Broadley]

Hows about a few words of wisdom from no less than Martin Luther King Jr.


Who said:

It is not dependence.
It is not independence
It is INTERdependence
That will make us what we need to be



I've heard worse Sasch

 

[GirlieGirl]

I think we were meant to fellowship. I had my stint as a so called independent woman who had to prove she didn't need a man for anything. Honestly, I was pretty lonely that way but would never have admitted it.

But getting married and being part of a team doesn't mean you become clingy and helpless. You have to work at a common goal together. If you're clingy, you'll likely become a burden to your spouse. I think the change from singledom to marriage is not that now you're a dependent, it's that now you can't make your decisions based only on yourself. Maybe "independent women" consider that a burden. Sometimes it is a challenge, but it's better than being secretly lonely.

 

[Cordy]

Before I was married, I was independent, but not in a forceful or stubborn way (well, at least that is what I would like to think). I liked to do things for myself. I liked making my own decisions. But when I needed help or someone to lean on, I think I was pretty quick to admit it. I think that I have pretty much just integrated that approach into marriage, as has my husband (who was also rather independent). When there are things I can do myself, I do – but it is even better now because my husband encourages and supports me. I still make decisions, but with my husband. We are both actively discuss issues and work, learn and negotiate to the best decision we can come to.

On a rare occasion, when we were dating, my husband (then boyfriend or fiancé) would try to take over. He saw his dad do this over his mom, and thought that was how things were supposed to be (he was uncomfortable, but thought he had to because it was expected). I let him know that I was not interested in a relationship like that, and we have never had a problem with it in marriage. He knows that I will handle as much as a can, but that I will willingly ask for a hand when I need it, so he need not worry about me and try to jump in and save me. I try to do the same for him. I truly have an incredible husband!

I an extended note…in marriage counselling, our counsellor said that marriage is not about people dropping who they are for this new unit. It is always being there to uplift, support and encourage the other in their individuality – who they were created to be! When there are two people giving each other that kind of boost through everyday, it makes for a wonderful and successful union.

 

[Singin4Him]

Haha you described me to a T lol. I am and have been that way ever since I was born I think. I grew up with brothers so I had that mind set of anything a guy can do I could do just as good and I did most the time though I wasn't a tomboy oddly enough. Well, I just got married in June and it has been a learning experience but I've enjoyed. I don't think I'll ever be a girl who NEEDS help from a man but there are times when it's nice. Along with that, don't be confused about what submission means, it's not like a dictatorship. It's not like the man goes around making all the decisions and we women sit back and have no say-so in the matter. It's a team effort, it's something we do together. He doesn't make your decisions for you but he is there to advise you.

There is a book that has helped me, it's called: Redefining the Strong-willed Woman" by Cynthia Ulrich Tobias. It's a great book about how strong-willed woman can serve Christ, their husband's, and their families. I loved it, I felt like it was written about me lol.

 

[Zoomer]

I believe that you can still be independent in a marriage. I know I am still somewhat independent but that's one of the reasons my husband married me. There are things that I do in our marriage that I do not consult my husband on. One is that we decided that I would take care of the finanances, so I do every associated with that. I don't think it is about changing who we are, but loving each other for who we are.

 

[gracefaith]

I sometimes feel like the modern woman has a feminist on one shoulder and a traditional mother/wife on the other...and they fight A LOT! Like real people, they tend to fight with extremes and false premises.

For instance, the feminist sees the the stay-at-home mom says in our ear, "Egads! I could never be so helpless." The traditional wife sees the woman with the independent income and says in the other, "Doesn't she want her husband to feel needed?!" We hear this internal bicker and try and figure out who's telling us the truth (which, in this case, is neither.)

The problem isn't what we do or what roles we take. It's our attitude while doing it!

Both people in a marriage need to humble themselves to accept with grace and gratefullness the assistance of their partner. A true team is about interdependence. Each member depends on the other to do their part for the whole. They may not do the same part, but that does not make either person more necessary or more dependent than the other. It doesn't really matter who makes how much and when, or who handles the bills or who mops the floors or who opens the pickle jars - in the end, this about how you feel about yourself and how you treat your spouse.

 

[Gwenyfur]

That's just it Sash...Guys *need* to be *needed*. It's part of letting a man be a man. They're the happiest when we come to them with something to fix. It took me a LONG time to get to where I'd actually let him wear the pants, lead the family and solve problems. And honestly, it almost cost me my marriage.

I can recomment a couple of books that helped me to realize that men just need to be the man. There's nothing wrong with needing your fiance` You're going to *need* him a lot more when you're married. Needing another human being isn't a horrible thing. It's all part of being a loving couple. He's going to *need* you too, not to fix things, but to support him emotionally after he's had a rough day, or he's struggling with something in his walk, any number of things...and that's where you get to give support, encouragement and most of all prayer for your man.

The book titles are Liberated Through Submission by P. B. Wilson
and The Excellent Wife by Martha Peace.

Those 2 books changed my life and my perspective of the world's view vs God's view of marriage...and saved my marriage...

If he's wanting information on stuff for guys...my DH swears by
Wild at Heart by John Eldridge.

He says it changed how he feels about being a hubby and a father. The book by PB Wilson is actually geared toward hubby and wife, so it's good one for both to read

Hope this helps hun

 

[fruitrach]

Hi Sasch,

That's a great thing to be thinking about before marriage.

I think one of the issues which might be helpful in thinking about this is the reasons for your independence. Some independence is good - it's good to be able to handle yourself, manage your own finances etc etc etc. It's good to have your own identity. But the other side of independence is based on pride and stubbornness. "I will not ask for help or 'need' anyone because I don't want them to see that I am weak". This isn't so good. Needing help, depending on others, isn't weak or bad and it definitely isn't something we should be ashamed of, not even as women.

As you and B get to know each other more and more, you'll recognise each others' strengths and weaknesses and you'll naturally come to depend on each other where one is stronger than the other. Don't be afraid to ask him for help and let him know he can ask you too. In the same way, don't be afraid to tell him when you can manage something, just try and be gentle and gracious when you do!

Bless you lots

 

[Abiel]

I think i am submissive...but then we are to each other. We have common,negotiated objectives. We look out for each other. If I hear a bump in the night, he is the one to check things out. He wants to be protective. I allow him. That's submission too. In a marriage between two people that works, it just doesn't seem to be an issue.

 

[karla]

I think it is all on how we present ourselves. I am independant in that I can do things for myself and don't need to rely on others to much for my survival or happiness. My husband knows this, but he also knows that I love him and that when he is taking care of me that it makes me feel appreciated, not useless. There are plenty of things that I can do that DH can't and vice versa, but the point is to appreciate what gifts you each bring to the table and to accept the other person's help for exactly what it is - a demonstration of their love for you. I know that when DH starts doing the laundry it doesn't mean that he thinks I am a poor housewife or incapable of doing it myself he does it because he knows that I have had a long day with the kids and just didn't have time to do it. When I take it upon myself to take a crow bar to the closet in order to remodel it - that doesn't mean I don't think he is capable of it. It's just that I know that it is something that we wanted to do and that he much rather spend the weekend playing with the kids and spendng time with me. There is nothing wrong with being independant, in fact I know that my husband loves me more for being that way - but what is wrong is using that independance to hurt or push other people out of your life. It's all about perspective and perception.

 

[Sascha Fitzpatrick]

Thank you (all of you) for replying to this thread - you helped lay a few of my fears to rest.

I'm just so worried, that when we do end up officially engaged (and then married), that I'm not going to be able to deal so well with him trying to 'fix' things in my life - we've been having lots of discussions about how I feel when he tries to make it 'all better' and how HE feels when I don't let him do it (as well as his reasons as to WHY he wants to do that). I'm learning (very slowly) to appreciate his willingness to help out, and his capabilities - I'm just worried I'm going to start falling apart when I'm left to do something when he's not around - that's probably HIGHLY unlikely, but I have a GREAT 'worrier/what if' personality.

I'm not on the first page, so please forgive me - but the person who shared that 'independant v stereotypical housewife' (or whatever) being on your shoulders each day - that is so right! I WANT to be the stay at home, submissive, stereotypical wife when it gets to that point - but as soon as I say that, the other one chimes in with 'but what if he dies? what if you lose that 'strength' you've always had' - thanks for that post, it really helped me understand.

And you're all so right about interdependance - I'm trying to incorporate that into our dating life now (to a small extent), and it is going well (so don't get me wrong on that) - I just don't want to come across as helpless in our relationship to him. B is like most guys where he wants to help out, but I know a fair bit of his past, and he's pretty used to helping out girlfriends financially, and I'm still getting used to that.

For example, I want to go to Europe, but to do that, I have to pay off my credit card. I'm really careful when I talk to him about it, cos I know that if I sound stressed, he WILL offer to do something that I think is 'ridiculous' - like paying it off himself, or paying the airfare (he has quite a large expendable income after bills are paid). I've learnt to prefix all those kinds of conversations about MY budgetting for the trip by saying - I don't want you to do anything rash and help me out with this - I need to do this for myself, so I can prove that I am able to budget. He is so far being ok with this (and keeping silent), but I know that he longs to 'fix' this for me.

That's my main worry - I don't want to start taking advantage of his capabilities. AND I don't want to hurt him, everytime I say no to his generosity!

Sasch

 

[gracefaith]

Sasch,

I'm the one that talked about the feminist and housewife sitting on our shoulders! Thought I would recommend a book to you: WHAT OUR MOTHERS DIDN'T TELL US: Why Happiness Eludes the Modern Woman by Danielle Crittenden. It's not a Christian book but it is an excellent analysis of the internal conflict within women who appreciate both independence and domesticity.

 

[Abiel]

But for some people the domestic thing SUCKS! If our family wasn't a joint enterprise it would collapse! Yet we still have 'roles' and it is still one of mutual submission, and I did the stay at home mum thing for 7 years- as a joint descision, and only with considerable hubby support between the hours of 6pm- 8am. The biblical model is not the nuclear family. It required a huge extended family to work.

 

[Cordy]

But for some people the domestic thing SUCKS! If our family wasn't a joint enterprise it would collapse! Yet we still have 'roles' and it is still one of mutual submission, and I did the stay at home mum thing for 7 years- as a joint descision, and only with considerable hubby support between the hours of 6pm- 8am. The biblical model is not the nuclear family. It required a huge extended family to work.

Very good point. In the past, there was a greater presence of family support as well as a sense of community. Responsibilities were generally more shared, rather than simply divided into two roles for two people (which is a rather recent phenomenon)

I have difficulty understanding why we get so caught up in these bifurcated roles: the independent woman v. the submitted woman; the feminist v. the domestic; the decision-maker v. the supporter etc. If we examine scripture, I believe we can find evidence that ALL these traits are valuable for women (and men). I have feminist friends who look forward to being housewives for a while. I’m a feminist, and I love cooking, baking and decorating as well as things that are not domestic. A husband and wife should learn how to make decisions together while having the mentality of submitting to each other. We have been given brains to think as individuals. There are, indeed, things that we must do independently, like making the decision to become a follower of Christ. But scripture also stresses the great importance of being part of a community in which we submit to each other for unity, growth, encouragement and strength. Marriage is an incredible place to develop these qualities. It is not about being this or that - or to be this, you can’t be that. Life is not merely made of up dichotomies. I think it is about learning how to grown in many different areas, and learning how to come to a healthy balance.

 

[Emma!]

The way i look at it is, my husband is more gifted ('better') at certain things than i am, and there are certain things that i am more gifted ('better') at than he is. So we 'mix' these things and 'help' each other out in those areas, as one.