Is Selfishness the reason why we are marrying later and later these days?

[seeker2122]

Nah ,not uncomfortable. Maybe you need to know the difference between submission and obedience. Additionally, you failed to include verse 21 which says "Submit to one another". Be blessed.

Ephesians 5:21
"Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ."

Difference Between Submission and Obedience | Compare the Difference Between Similar Terms

Submission vs Obedience Difference between Submission and Obedience is important to know as we live in a society where obedience and submission to power

www.differencebetween.com

Hmm, I believe you have just revealed what you struggle with. For your information, submission and obedience are interchangeable.
It seems to me that you might struggle with this issue of someone telling you to be obedient or to submit to men being that you are female.
That is being said in a Christ-loving Biblical context. If you cannot accept submitting and being obedient to your husband, then you can't be submissive and obedient to Jesus Christ. That is the whole point and exercise of why God created the roles. It is not to oppress females as
we are being brainwashed to believe (hence the rise of feminism). It is to prepare us (all of us both men and women) to be ready for our bride groom who is Jesus!

If you read the verses I gave you, it's all there. Christ gave his life for the church. That's why the man's role is to give his life for his wife.
Don't take it personally. It is biblical. For me and for you. I actually found it very beautiful, one of the most beautiful lessons taught in the Bible! (but most women, even christian women don't like the notion of anyone telling them they should be obedient....which is why marriages are happening less and families even less because women see it as a form of submission/obedience by playing that traditional role).
The highest virtue for a woman is obedience. (see the story of Rebekah as just one example).
The highest virtue for a man is sacrifice/giving his life for his wife (Adam "slept"/died so that Eve could be made, Jesus gave his life for his bride).

The Bible says, the word of God is foolishness to those who are perishing but to those being saved, it is the power of God (1 Cor. 1:18).

 

[trophy33]

I would like to suggest that chasing "unrealistic expectations" IS selfishness / self-centered living. Also career first / family second is also self-centeredness. I agree with what you said, but I do believe all of that is rooted in self-centeredness/selfishness.

It would depend on how broadly we defined selfishness, agreed. My view is that its more based on various misinformation, lies, illusions and political agendas, so the outcome has its source rather in external things like society and culture. But its quite subjective.

 

[seeker2122]

It would depend on how broadly we defined selfishness, agreed. My view is that its more based on various misinformation, lies and illusions, but its quite subjective.

Selfishness is defined simply as this: having our own independent will
the opposite to selfishness is this: living by/for God's will alone.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Hmm, I believe you have just revealed what you struggle with. For your information, submission and obedience are interchangeable.
It seems to me that you might struggle with this issue of someone telling you to be obedient or to submit to men being that you are female.
That is being said in a Christ-loving Biblical context. If you cannot accept submitting and being obedient to your husband, then you can't be submissive and obedient to Jesus Christ. That is the whole point and exercise of why God created the roles. It is not to oppress females as
we are being brainwashed to believe (hence the rise of feminism). It is to prepare us (all of us both men and women) to be ready for our bride groom who is Jesus!

If you read the verses I gave you, it's all there. Christ gave his life for the church. That's why the man's role is to give his life for his wife.
Don't take it personally. It is biblical. For me and for you. I actually found it very beautiful, one of the most beautiful lessons taught in the Bible! (but most women, even christian women don't like the notion of anyone telling them they should be obedient....which is why marriages are happening less and families even less because women see it as a form of submission/obedience by playing that traditional role).
The highest virtue for a woman is obedience. (see the story of Rebekah as just one example).
The highest virtue for a man is sacrifice/giving his life for his wife (Adam "slept"/died so that Eve could be made, Jesus gave his life for his bride).

The Bible says, the word of God is foolishness to those who are perishing but to those being saved, it is the power of God (1 Cor. 1:18).

"Submit to one another."
Be blessed.

 

[trophy33]

"Submit to one another."
Be blessed.

How does that work, in practical situations?

Do you submit one time and expect his submission next time? Or does that somehow function during one decision making?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

How does that work, in practical situations?

Do you submit one time and expect his submission next time? Or does that somehow function during one decision making?

Sure sometimes speak up and sometimes yeild to the other. It's 50/50.

 

[Paidiske]

I think that is where we differ. I don't believe it has at all.
Life is still life. It's always been hard. People are just more self-centered and unwilling to sacrifice everything for marriage and family. I think we'd rather seek our own career advancement, personal development, acquisition of wealth/power/leverage. If you look at the poorer people immigrating to western nations, they are working hard and still marrying young and raising 3 - 7 children in the west. If they can do it then what is our/your excuse? This is my opinion.

I don't see, for example, getting a degree as selfish in itself. The motivation for getting it might be selfish, or highly unselfish. I also don't think smaller family sizes are inherently selfish.
There is, I think, more than one way to live a generous, loving, unselfish life, and God's will is not the same for every person; and we ought to be careful about labelling a different approach to our own as "selfish" when we don't know the hearts of the people concerned.

 

[trophy33]

Sure sometimes speak up and sometimes yeild to the other. It's 50/50.

Is that what Paul meant in the context of your quote?

The structure of his letter/text is as follows:

Submit to one another:
1. wives to husbands
2. children to parents
3. slaves to their earthly masters

You quoted just the sentence "submit to one another" and gave it a meaning that they all should submit 50% of time. Where is Paul saying that, though?

 

[bèlla]

I've noticed a correlation with self-sufficiency and traditional values. The majority are married with children. Large families are common and practical skills offset living expenses. You're unlikely to encounter them in major cities. A slower pace is attractive.

Marriage and family have primacy and many women are home full-time. Several contribute to household income through online endeavors and thrift is part of their appeal. Nearly all are Christians and openly acknowledge it on their channels. Homeschooling is a popular practice as is sharing. If a similar lifestyle is desirable you may find it useful to take a gardening class.

~bella

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Is that what Paul meant in the context of your quote?

The structure of his letter/text is as follows:

Submit to one another:
1. wives to husbands
2. children to parents
3. slaves to their earthly masters

You quoted just the sentence "submit to one another" and gave it a meaning that they all should submit 50% of time. Where is Paul saying that, though?

1. Everyone to Jesus Christ of Nazareth.
Thanks for sharing.

 

[trophy33]

1. Everyone to Jesus Christ of Nazareth.
Thanks for sharing.

OK, but my question was where is Paul saying "all of you, lead and submit 50:50".

Do you apply it also to submitting to Jesus Christ? Since you added it to the list...

 

[Maria Billingsley]

OK, but my question was where is Paul saying "all of you, lead and submit 50:50".

Do you apply it also to submitting to Jesus Christ? Since you added it to the list...

I'm afraid this conversation is going nowhere. We clearly have a difference of opinion and I will leave it at that.
I do hope you know that we ALL submit to Christ first.
Be blessed.

 

[trophy33]

I do hope you know that we ALL submit to Christ first.

50/50?

My question is simply where the apostle said that submitting/leading is 50/50. What is the source of your interpretation/idea.

 

[Miles]

Society has misguided priorities. From bad relationships with people to bad relationships with food, what's considered desirable or irresistible in contemporary culture isn't necessarily "the best" or even healthy for us. Self-destructive is more like it.

Selfishness plays a role, but it would be wrong to blame the people who marry late. In a world where divorce is rampant, where spouses don't respect each other, and where couples prefer their children to be raised by strangers, people with healthy priorities have fewer suitable options to choose from.

With regard to the modern women who are supposedly picky, I disagree with the idea that their standards are inherently high. If they were, they would hold men to a higher standard. Unfortunately, the opposite is true. For instance, look at the pickup artist community. Some men deliberately behave in a disreputable way just so they can date these very same women. If more of them had high standards, that dynamic wouldn't be so prevalent. Instead, they prioritize destroying themselves and destroying the family in the process. Actions speak louder than words. In a metaphorical sense, they prefer junk food... or maybe more like cheap booze and a cigarette... over an honest meal. The disparity between what they want and what they say they want can be enormous.

With that being said, healthy relationships can and do still happen. Regardless of whether they happen earlier or later in life. There are quality people out there. It's just that we've been in a state of societal decline for years. This is unfortunate for those of us who prefer better things in our love life, but there's still hope.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Today, women don't really need men. They are capable of supporting themselves as they have their own careers
and many even more prosperous than men. Women, esp. in the biblical times needed a man for several reasons
which I won't get into.

So it seems to me now more than ever, if a man and woman are to meet and get married and raise a family, it's
not out of need for survival and security, but more so now on the relationship/companionship. But the standards
and preferences we all have for our potential life partner also seems to have become more stringent and picky (because
we can afford to be picky now). "He's got to X tall, have X money, own X, career in X, full head of hair, thick eye brows,
well-cultured, driven, confident" the list goes on and on.

What ever happened to just marrying and loving someone because God told you to do so. The woman should be obedient
and the man should be selfless willing to sacrifice his life for her (these two points are actually biblical and the highest calling
for each gender).

Is it safe to assume the obvious answer why we are not marrying anymore these days, and if we are, it's getting later and later
and even fewer people are having kids/families......mostly because we are more selfish than ever before (the greatest idol in
today's world is "me")?

I don't think it's selfish so much as it is the requirements to live and raise children these days.

By the time someone is out of college with a bachelors degree they are 22. A masters is a little more time.

By the time someone has their career on track and can put more into a home life they are around 30.

The cost of living is just too high, and raising kids is expensive. You have high home costs, health insurance, rental property insurance or home owners insurance, car, car insurance (all far more expensive now than it once was).

These days, it takes either 1.) A tremendous amount of help from family (which not everyone has) or a two career household to live and marry.

My stepson and his wife got married when they were both 18 and started a family. His wife is a stay at home mom. However - they moved into a basement apartment in her parents house at that time, and as their family grew they continued to live with her parents.

This is about the only way a couple can marry young and have a traditional family - because now it takes a lot more to live.

 

[seeker2122]

I don't think it's selfish so much as it is the requirements to live and raise children these days.

By the time someone is out of college with a bachelors degree they are 22. A masters is a little more time.

By the time someone has their career on track and can put more into a home life they are around 30.

The cost of living is just too high, and raising kids is expensive. You have high home costs, health insurance, rental property insurance or home owners insurance, car, car insurance (all far more expensive now than it once was).

These days, it takes either 1.) A tremendous amount of help from family (which not everyone has) or a two career household to live and marry.

My stepson and his wife got married when they were both 18 and started a family. His wife is a stay at home mom. However - they moved into a basement apartment in her parents house at that time, and as their family grew they continued to live with her parents.

This is about the only way a couple can marry young and have a traditional family - because now it takes a lot more to live.

Thank you for your input. I agree with everything you said but once again everything you said is basically describing selfishness. Our selfish need to survive and provide for ourselves a good and comfortable life before taking on any other life duties lol. That's basically what everyone is saying but somehow not seeing that as being selfish.

I've met immigrants who came to western nations to live a better life and they hold 3 or 4 jobs, low wages, but still get married, have 4 or 5 kids and are under 30. How come it didn't stop them from living unselfishly for their family/children/marriage? They could have easily said the same thing as most westerners do which is complain at how expensive everything is and how expensive it is to raise kids. They don't. It doesn't matter if they have NO JOB. They will still get married and have 5 babies LOL. That to me is beautiful. Not careless, or irresponsible. I think we westerners are too far on the end which is, "I need to get a good paying job, own a house, a car, and be comfortable and financially secure before I can think about getting married and even children let alone 3 or 4 kids!" This kind of thinking to me is full of selfishness. Life is not supposed to be comfortable and easy. It's supposed to be a mess. It's supposed to be about struggling. Yet we rob ourselves of the innate joy/pains of intimacy in marriage and duties of raising children (being a father/mother).

This is why most western nations are declining in population and birth rates. Japan is the fastest shrinking nation on earth losing half a million population per year. China is also shrinking each year now in population because they became prosperous and rich so the younger generation don't want to marry and have kids. They want to go shopping, buy nice clothes, live lavishly for themselves to take instagram photos and make tiktoks about their travels and their dogs, but they don't have any kids. That's selfishness to me.

Most westerners are like, "It's so expensive to get married or have kids" while they are on their $2,500 cruise vacation, or spending $20 a day just for fancy coffee, pushing their dog strollers with their pampered pets just coming out of a grooming shop where they spent $100 on their pet. The poor people would just use all that money for their having and raising children.

 

[Paidiske]

I think there's probably somewhere between the extremes. On the one hand, I would certainly say it's irresponsible to have kids if you have no job, and can't even support yourself, let alone dependents. Paying bills for basic living expenses isn't selfishness. On the other hand, we need to be able to discern between needs and wants, between a basic decent standard of living and luxury. But I'm not really seeing many unmarried young folk living in any kind of luxury.

Personally, having been a one-income household for a good portion of our marriage, I don't buy the "you can't survive on less than two incomes" thing. But I also don't think that we should expect everyone to work three low wage jobs and have more kids than they can sustain (financially or in any other way). Neither of the extremes are a healthy place.

 

[anetazo]

In Joshua, the bible. God had him weed out the majority. Down to 300 men. Those who lapped the water at lake were sign not fit for service. Those who were diligent, carefully cupped water out to drink. Revelation chapter 13. The majority will worship antichrist near future. Thier biblically illiterate. Those who have gospel armory on will not worship antichrist. It's knowledge and wisdom of God's word. Many will go spirtualty to slaughter house. Many people will worship antichrist. Revelation chapter 20. The millennium is time of teaching and discipline for the spirtualty dead. Being selfish, is those who lapped water, and not fit to serve God. We're close to 6th trump, when antichrist arrives in Jerusalem. This is not time to be distracted. Or getting involved some one who will influence you or compromise your values and beliefs. Antichrist will come when we're in our flesh body. At 7th trump, Jesus arrives. Majority went to wrong Wedding. In the millennium, we're in our spirtual bodys. Study the bible.

 

[Benjamin Müller]

Just because people are marrying later doesn't mean they're not in pre-martial relations (which I deem selfish because such is based in lust and wanting the freedom to split from him or her when the relationship goes south)

The Satanic 'Divide and Conquer' has split people into so many cliques and sub-cultures and groups that finding someone who actually believes as you do in regards to wide range of aspects has become increasingly difficult.

Most people are not going to marry outside of their class; outside of their religious denomination, outside of their political affiliation , outside of their personal constitutions: a vegan will want to be with another vegan (or at the very least a vegetarian); someone who is passionate about climate change will want someone who supports going green; a gun-loving, gun-touting person will want someone who feels just as zealous about their second amendment. Now what happens if two Roman Catholic Vegans get together and one supports guns and the other doesn't? Typically they split.


Man has determined for himself what is good and what is evil, and therefore we are intolerant to evil--however man defines it. The Christian defines evil the way God defines evil, but not all Christians are as zealous about defending the law as other Christians. You look in the debate section and there are Christians who support the death penalty and others who don't; some who defend abortion while others are aghast that a Christian could even support such a concept!

Confusion; Idolatry and Intolerance is destroying marriage. Doing the right thing never seems selfish. I don't date; the type of spouse I'm on the look out for is probably extinct. I don't count myself as selfish. If they existed, marriage and kids would be lovely. If God wanted me to get married he'd match-make in heaven for me, but he hasn't and I'm content with that.

 

[peaceful-forest]

Is it safe to assume the obvious answer why we are not marrying anymore these days, and if we are, it's getting later and later
and even fewer people are having kids/families......mostly because we are more selfish than ever before (the greatest idol in
today's world is "me")?

I don't think everyone is marrying later and later. There are still people that get married when they are in their late teens, early 20s, mid 20s.

I can tell you my side of the story, but that doesn't mean it applies to everyone. It was hard to find a single man in the church even when I was in my late teens and early 20s. Then when I did online dating, it didn't go the way I thought it would. I was clueless and selfish when I looked for a man. I looked for cute guys and didn't look for any inner qualities except for being saved. I hadn't been taught anything, apparently.

I received wisdom from God about a partner after getting Him involved. While I am still single now, I know God has a man for me in the future.

It all depends on what God wants for us and whether we're going to obey His will or not.