In the Regeneration...

[Old Timer]

So how about the regeneration 'ey..

Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?

And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name’s sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.

Hmmm.. interesting.. but many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first..

Maybe some of the superiour spiritual elite here can help us with this one..

 

[ebedmelech]

When you don't read scripture line upon line and compare what you're reading you end up with a "skewed view of what's presented.

Matthew 21:43, 44:
43 Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people, producing the fruit of it.
44 And he who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; but on whomever it falls, it will scatter him like dust.”

I wonder how that happened...

But...let's take the kingdom of God in other passages besides *selected* ones:

Romans 14:17
for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

1 Corinthians 4:20
For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power.

1 Thessalonians 2:12
so that you would walk in a manner worthy of the God who calls you into His own kingdom and glory.

Hebrews 12:28
Therefore, since we receive a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us show gratitude, by which we may offer to God an acceptable service with reverence and awe;
29 for our God is a consuming fire.

When we take the totality of scripture we can understand the kingdom of God is an "already" and "not yet" just as our salvation is already and not yet.

Kind of simple if you read and compare...

 

[Old Timer]

Any others want to deny the crystal clear teaching of scripture and pretend that they're more spiritual than everyone else..?

Or is ebedmelech the only self professed spiritual elite one here?

All superior spiritual insights welcome..

 

[ebedmelech]

Any others want to deny the crystal clear teaching of scripture and pretend that they're more spiritual than everyone else..?

Or is ebedmelech the only self professed spiritual elite one here?

All superior spiritual insights welcome..

Or...are you the one to only see those passages that support your skewed view?

Notice Old Timer didn't address one passage. Why? He simply can't deal with passages that present a problem to his view...he passes it by.

 

[Old Timer]

Well, the floor is wide open for the self proclaimed spiritual elite..

Why can't anyone tell us what the regeneration is really about if it doesn't mean exactly what it says?

Because it's all a delusion.. these people have been duped into believing that they're more spiritual than any who refuse to make the holy scriptures say what they do not say, rather than what they do say.

Now these spiritual elite ones will insist til the cows come home that the word of God doesn't mean what it actually says, and at the same time will not explain what it actually means.. they'll simply look down from their self proclaimed place of pride and play make believe as to how they know better.

It's a typical ploy of the rulers of the darkness of this world.. get men to deny the truth and at the same time let them think how mature and spiritual they are.

 

[Old Timer]

Some just swallow it more than others...

Like hook line and sinker..

 

[Old Timer]

So we have the LORD telling us that he shall not eat the Passover or drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come

Jesus then tells his Apostles that they shall be appointed a kingdom, as He has from His Father, and that they shall sit on twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel in that kingdom.

Matthew teaches us that this will happen in the regeneration, when the Son of Man shall sit upon the throne of His glory.. and Matthew 25 teaches us that this shall be when the LORD shall come in his glory.

With only a few simple swipes of the sword.. we can see some absolutely wondrous things..

Even things which shall be hereafter.. in that Day.. the Day of the Lord, the Day of Jesus Christ.

Now of course the self proclaimed spiritual elite amongst us here will deny these simple scriptural truths and at the same time pretend that they know better.. as they're more spiritual.

Sorry, can't help that.. it's just the way that it is.

 

[AnticipateHisComing]

Or...are you the one to only see those passages that support your skewed view?

Notice Old Timer didn't address one passage. Why? He simply can't deal with passages that present a problem to his view...he passes it by.

Don't forget he also resorts to insults instead of reasoned, logical arguments.

He pretends to be so exactingly following scripture, while proposing the ridiculous; that when Jesus comes he will reign for a 1000 years in Israel with billions of immortal saints while the rest of the world continues on as presently.

And he pokes fun at our ideas?

 

[Old Timer]

Don't forget he also resorts to insults instead of reasoned, logical arguments.

He pretends to be so exactingly following scripture, while proposing the ridiculous; that when Jesus comes he will reign for a 1000 years in Israel with billions of immortal saints while the rest of the world continues on as presently.

And he pokes fun at our ideas?

And as expected... not a single explanation of anything in this thread.. just more of the same from the spiritual elite..

Because this is what happens when men are duped into believing that the scriptures do not say what they actually say.. but something else entirely..

And then of course don't hold your breath waiting for the spiritual elite to actually explain what any of these things mean..

Just take their word for it that they're the spiritual elite.

That's all..

 

[Old Timer]

See what I mean..

They'll mock the simple truth to no end and at the same time can't explain a single thing..

But they're spiritual.. well.. that's what they've been deceived into thinking..

 

[Old Timer]

This is religious pride at its finest.

This same person couldn't answer a simple question about the resurrection being past or not.. but that's ok, right..

I mean who cares if people say the resurrection is past.. who cares if they err.. who cares if their words will eat like a cancer and overthrow the faith of some..

No big deal.. why can't we all just get along.. right..

Hey, I wish it were that easy.. but the reality is that the last thing in the world that the rulers of this dark world want anyone to believe is that That day is coming..

Let's spiritualize it all away and then pretend that we're more spiritual than everyone else.

Let's say the resurrection is past.. let's say the Day of the Lord came a long time ago..

Who cares..

and besides..

Hath God really said..?

 

[Bible2]

ebedmelech said in post 73:

Jesus said in John 4:21-24
21 Jesus *said to her, “Woman, believe Me, an hour is coming when neither in this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father.
22 You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews.
23 But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.
24 God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

John 4:21-24 wasn't contradicting the fact Christians could worship God in spirit and truth in the 2nd temple building in Jerusalem (Luke 24:53, Acts 2:46, Acts 22:17), but meant that under the New Covenant, up until Jesus' 2nd coming, people wouldn't be required to go to a temple building in Jerusalem to worship God like they had been required to do at least 3 times a year under the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Deuteronomy 16:16; 2 Chronicles 8:12-16). Only after Jesus' 2nd coming (Zechariah 14:3-4), during his millennial reign (Zechariah 14:9, Revelation 20:4-6), will people be required to go once a year to worship the returned Jesus in a temple building in Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:16-21).

ebedmelech said in post 73:

As we read Jesus in the gospels we see him repeatedly speaking in spiritual terms and those who were the "wooden literal" hearers missed what he was saying.

A classic example is in the "breado of life" discourse of John 6 where Jesus said:
John 6:51:
51 I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread also which I will give for the life of the world is My flesh.”

John 6:51-57 shows that all believers for their ultimate salvation need to eat the bread of communion (Matthew 26:26) and drink the wine of communion (Matthew 26:27-29), which actually become the body and blood of Jesus (1 Corinthians 11:27-30) in some spiritual manner (John 6:63).

*******

ebedmelech said in post 74:

You can keep saying that, however once again Jesus said it very clearly in Matthew 25 both grups are there for separation...the sheep and the goats.

Matthew 25:31 doesn't mean that Matthew 25:32-46 (just as 2 Peter 3:10a doesn't mean that 2 Peter 3:10b) will happen immediately at Jesus' 2nd coming, only that it will happen sometime subsequent to his 2nd coming, at the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11-15), after the future millennium and subsequent events (Revelation 20:7-15).

Matthew 25:32-46 refers to when the "nations" will be judged by their works at the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:12-13), whereas at the 2nd coming, Jesus will judge only those in the church (Psalms 50:3-5, cf. Mark 13:27; Matthew 25:19-30). Also, Matthew 25:41,46 refers to when the unsaved of all times, whether Jews or Gentiles, will be sent into the everlasting punishment of the lake of fire and brimstone at the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:15), whereas at the 2nd coming only the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") and his False Prophet will be cast into the lake of fire (Revelation 19:20). The saved "sheep" at the sheep/goat judgment will include those, whether Jews or Gentiles, who will become believers during the millennium (Isaiah 66:19-21). Matthew 25:34 refers to obedient believers inheriting the kingdom of the Father on the new earth in New Jerusalem, the Father's house (Revelation 21:1-7, John 14:2).

*******

ebedmelech said in post 76:

As I speak of spiritual things, they are the things that the apostles taught in scripture, being filled with the Spirit, walking in the Spirit, and comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

1 Corinthians 2:13 doesn't mean Spirit-inspired prophecy can't refer to physical things, just as, for example, John 6:63b doesn't mean Jesus' Spiritual words can't refer to physical things. For example, his words in Mark 10:33-34 were fulfilled physically.

 

[ebedmelech]

John 4:21-24 wasn't contradicting the fact Christians could worship God in spirit and truth in the 2nd temple building in Jerusalem (Luke 24:53, Acts 2:46, Acts 22:17), but meant that under the New Covenant, up until Jesus' 2nd coming, people wouldn't be required to go to a temple building in Jerusalem to worship God like they had been required to do at least 3 times a year under the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Deuteronomy 16:16; 2 Chronicles 8:12-16). Only after Jesus' 2nd coming (Zechariah 14:3-4), during his millennial reign (Zechariah 14:9, Revelation 20:4-6), will people be required to go once a year to worship the returned Jesus in a temple building in Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:16-21).

Yes it was. What Jesus was perfectly saying is it's not about a mountain or a temple. Jesus was telling the woman it was about having a spiritual connection to God. How you could miss Jesus is speaking of the Holy Spirit being in His people which would happen at Pentecost?

That is what the New Covenant is about Bible2. God dwelt in the temple and would appear above the mercy seat. So once again you miss the true picture. God's Spirit being in us makes us where He dwells which is why Jesus is saying this.

John 6:51-57 shows that all believers for their ultimate salvation need to eat the bread of communion (Matthew 26:26) and drink the wine of communion (Matthew 26:27-29), which actually become the body and blood of Jesus (1 Corinthians 11:27-30) in some spiritual manner (John 6:63).

*******

No it doesn't. That would be the nonsense of the Eucharist and "real presence" doctrine. That's not what Jesus is relating to at all. This entire discourse is figurative language of receiving Christ. Jesus is showing Himself to be the Passover Lamb. The Lord's supper is not instituted here...this is salvation Bible2. It's very clear in what Jesus tells the disciples at John 6:63:
63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.

Try to grasp that...

Matthew 25:31 doesn't mean that Matthew 25:32-46 (just as 2 Peter 3:10a doesn't mean that 2 Peter 3:10b) will happen immediately at Jesus' 2nd coming, only that it will happen sometime subsequent to his 2nd coming, at the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11-15), after the future millennium and subsequent events (Revelation 20:7-15).

Matthew 25:32-46 refers to when the "nations" will be judged by their works at the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:12-13), whereas at the 2nd coming, Jesus will judge only those in the church (Psalms 50:3-5, cf. Mark 13:27; Matthew 25:19-30). Also, Matthew 25:41,46 refers to when the unsaved of all times, whether Jews or Gentiles, will be sent into the everlasting punishment of the lake of fire and brimstone at the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:15), whereas at the 2nd coming only the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") and his False Prophet will be cast into the lake of fire (Revelation 19:20). The saved "sheep" at the sheep/goat judgment will include those, whether Jews or Gentiles, who will become believers during the millennium (Isaiah 66:19-21). Matthew 25:34 refers to obedient believers inheriting the kingdom of the Father on the new earth in New Jerusalem, the Father's house (Revelation 21:1-7, John 14:2).

*******

Nope. This is really bad reading of scripture. ALL THE NATIONS...but then Jesus you're separating the sheep from the goats??? Jesus said "My sheep hear my voice"...can you get that?

As 1 Corinthians 15 makes the point that after judgement Jesus gives the reign He received at Matthew 28:18, back to the Father. Read that.

1 Corinthians 2:13 doesn't mean Spirit-inspired prophecy can't refer to physical things, just as, for example, John 6:63b doesn't mean Jesus' Spiritual words can't refer to physical things. For example, his words in Mark 10:33-34 were fulfilled physically.

Once again you've missed the boat Bible2. The whole idea here is understanding God's word by the Holy Spirit. The apostle makes the point...watch this:
1 Corinthians 2:12:
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God,

The apostle is speaking of the Holy Spirit Bible2...which is freely given at salvation.

 

[Old Timer]

Ok, maybe they're right. It's at least worth a listen..

Let's let them explain what this really means.. At least then everyone will be getting both views.

So here goes.. From Matthew 19..

Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?

And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name’s sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.

So again, for the benefit of anyone following and who might be interested in both views.. Let's let any view come forth and people can think on it for themselves.

 

[ebedmelech]

Ok, maybe they're right. It's at least worth a listen..

Let's let them explain what this really means.. At least then everyone will be getting both views.

So here goes.. From Matthew 19..



So again, for the benefit of anyone following and who might be interested in both views.. Let's let any view come forth and people can think on it for themselves.

It's really not real hard Old Timer. You see you have to follow scripture line upon line (something you're apparently negligent to do).

Paul affirms this in Ephesians 2:20:
20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone,

This is again affirmed in Revelation 21:
14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundation stones, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

This is why one must SEARCH the scriptures to see HOW the application is to be made!

The apostles are the fondation of the church! This is why Jesus made the statement of Matthew 19:27, 28.

No one is denying what Christ has said, but as He revealed through His apostles in the writng of scripture, THEY reveal to us how this applies.

In 1 Corinthians 4:9 Paul said this:

9 For, I think, God has exhibited us apostles last of all, as men condemned to death; because we have become a spectacle to the world, both to angels and to men.

Again, Jesus hand selected these men and appointed them to build His church, wrought miricles through them by the Holy Spirit, to affirm them as His. Gave revelation to them by the Holy Spirit to write the scriptures. All of them but John were martyred...Jesus is simply telling Peter His reward and theirs...and no one has denied it.

So your argument is with yourself, and mainly because you don't have a true grasp of the totality of scripture.

Perhaps one day you will... when you "get a grip...

 

[Old Timer]

It's really not real hard Old Timer. You see you have to follow scripture line upon line (something you're apparently negligent to do).

Paul affirms this in Ephesians 2:20:
20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone,

This is again affirmed in Revelation 21:
14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundation stones, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

This is why one must SEARCH the scriptures to see HOW the application is to be made!

The apostles are the fondation of the church! This is why Jesus made the statement of Matthew 19:27, 28.

No one is denying what Christ has said, but as He revealed through His apostles in the writng of scripture, THEY reveal to us how this applies.

In 1 Corinthians 4:9 Paul said this:

9 For, I think, God has exhibited us apostles last of all, as men condemned to death; because we have become a spectacle to the world, both to angels and to men.

Again, Jesus hand selected these men and appointed them to build His church, wrought miricles through them by the Holy Spirit, to affirm them as His. Gave revelation to them by the Holy Spirit to write the scriptures. All of them but John were martyred...Jesus is simply telling Peter His reward and theirs...and no one has denied it.

So your argument is with yourself, and mainly because you don't have a true grasp of the totality of scripture.

Perhaps one day you will... when you "get a grip...

So you're saying that you do believe that The Lord shall sit upon the throne of his glory when he comes in his glory along with the twelve Apostles sitting upon thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel?

Or not?

 

[ebedmelech]

So you're saying that you do believe that The Lord shall sit upon the throne of his glory when he comes in his glory along with the twelve Apostles sitting upon thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel?

Or not?

Try reading what I say instead of intentionally being arbitrary...and you might get a clue.

 

[Old Timer]

Try reading what I say instead of intentionally being arbitrary...and you might get a clue.

I did read your comments although they had absolutely nothing to do with the scriptures referenced concerning the Lord sitting upon the throne of his glory when he comes in his glory.

Don't you think that you owe it to any here who are interested in hearing what your view is?

It certainly appears that you believe that the verses are saying something other than what they do say... and if that's the case, then can you explain them?

Otherwise confirm that you agree with what they do plainly say?

Is that to difficult.. or will there be more of the same.. me needing to get a clue?

So give me a clue here..

What do they mean?

 

[Old Timer]

Here, I'll even narrow it down for you so that you only need to explain the meaning of a couple verses... if in fact you believe that they say something other than what they do plainly say.

And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Does it mean what it says or does it mean something else entirely?

And if so, then what is the meaning?

 

[Old Timer]

Sorry folks, I know that this is like having teeth pulled, but hopefully ebed can explain his view here if it's something other than what the verse says.

Wouldn't that be nice?

Then at least we could all weigh these things for ourselves..

Right now all you have is my boring view that the words mean exactly what they say.. I'm also fine with the fact that I may need to get a clue here..but at least give me that clue.