In the Regeneration...

[Old Timer]

And of course they would not want anyone to believe this either..

And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him. And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer: for I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.

And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves: for I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.

...So when will that be?

Hear what the LORD says to his Apostles just a few verses down the page.. about the kingdom..

Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations. And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me; that ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Well, we know when that shall be.. and that is when he comes in his glory..

But then again, it's also important to remember that this is the last thing in the world that the rulers of the darkness of this world would want anyone to believe.

 

[ebedmelech]

Here's the last thing in the world that the rulers of the darkness of this world want anyone to believe..

We should already KNOW this! How are you making a point Old Timer? This is further confirmation of your ignorance of what amillenialism teaches!

Paul tells us clearly in Ephesians 1:18-23, what Christ's position became when He was raised from the dead. He tells the Ephesian church, that he is praying they will understand that:
18 I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened, so that you will know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints,
19 and what is the surpassing greatness of His power toward us who believe. These are in accordance with the working of the strength of His might
20 which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places,
21 far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come.
22 And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church,
23 which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.

Christ is ALREADY ON THE THRONE and we are reigning with Him!

The return of Christ is something we as believers do not fear, because we are ALREADY in the Kingdom. As the passage says..."CHRIST SEATED US WITH HIM!

Obviously you missed the "heavenly memo"!

We look to it because we KNOW it will culminate in the removal of the curse of Adam's sin...as Paul teaches us in Romans 8:18-25 that this will occur.

When we read all through the gospels as Jesus encounters Satan...AND DEFEATS him EVERY TIME!!! One would think Christians would know this.

Satan is blinding unblelievers Old Timer...that's why Jesus saved us! We should be sharing the message that the Kingdom is coming to earth, because we *should* know the Kingdom already is in heaven.

We know the Kingdom is coming to earth...Jesus told us to pray for that.

 

[Old Timer]

We should already KNOW this! How are you making a point Old Timer? This is further confirmation of your ignorance of what amillenialism teaches!

We know the Kingdom is coming to earth...Jesus told us to pray for that

Evidently you're confused and do not understand that amillennialism denies his literal thousand year kingdom on earth.. And now you're saying that you know it is coming to earth..

Either you do not understand amillennialism or you're confused.. Probably a little of both.

 

[ebedmelech]

Evidently you're confused and do not understand that amillennialism denies his literal thousand year kingdom on earth.. And now you're saying that you know it is coming to earth..

Either you do not understand amillennialism or you're confused.. Probably a little of both.

No...that would be you. Just wait and see...

When Jesus tells you this:

*I told you I was reigning in Matthew 28:18

*Peter told you in Acts 2:36

*My servant Paul told you in 1 Corinthians 15:25-28, Ephesians 1:18-21, Colossians 1:15-20, and Hebrews 1.

You'r the one confused.

 

[Old Timer]

Now there's a perfect example of someone who can't admit that they're wrong..

And who doesn't understand what they're even talking about..

Lol

 

[ebedmelech]

Now there's a perfect example of someone who can't admit that they're wrong..

And who doesn't understand what they're even talking about..

Lol

We'll certainly find out...

What really apparent is the fact that when you can't deal with scripture, you resort to jest. Typical deflection.

 

[Old Timer]

Any other amillennialists out there who also believe that the Lord's kingdom is coming to earth?

LOL..

 

[Old Timer]

The only thing we don't believe in, is a future literal 1000 year reign. We hold the 1000 years as symbolic of Jesus reign when He received it from the Father, as Matthew 28:18 says, until He returns and renders judgment.

Now the above is correct according to what amillennialists believe and preach.. they reject the truth of Christ's kingdom coming to earth.. regardless of how clear it is in the scriptures.

BUT...then here he says this..

We know the Kingdom is coming to earth...Jesus told us to pray for that.

? ? ?

 

[Old Timer]

Now how about that regeneration 'ey.. when the Son of man shall sit upon the throne of his glory along with his Apostles sitting upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel..?

 

[AnticipateHisComing]

Now how about that regeneration 'ey.. when the Son of man shall sit upon the throne of his glory along with his Apostles sitting upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel..?

Do you have any ideas about where Jesus and the Apostles will be reigning? Will it be in a new temple in Jerusalem?

 

[Old Timer]

I know for certain that it shall be when he comes in his glory.. this is what the scriptures say in no uncertain terms.

Jerusalem is the city of the great king.. and I have always thought that this will be where he shall be king over the whole earth in that day..

Can you see that Day approaching?

Perhaps that is step one..

 

[AnticipateHisComing]

I know for certain that it shall be when he comes in his glory.. this is what the scriptures say in no uncertain terms.

Jerusalem is the city of the great king.. and I have always thought that this will be where he shall be king over the whole earth in that day..

Can you see that Day approaching?

Perhaps that is step one..

Do you think they will be judging the whole earth or just Israel because the scripture verses just say they will judge Israel?

Yes, the day is fast approaching. What are you doing to speed its coming?

 

[Old Timer]

Do you think they will be judging the whole earth or just Israel because the scripture verses just say they will judge Israel?

I'm sure that Israel will once again be the head of the nations at this time although to be safe let's just go with what the scripture does say, and that is that they shall rule over the twelve tribes of Israel.

We know that the LORD shall be King over all the earth (not only Israel) in that Day.

We know that Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

We know that when that seventh Angel sounds, that the kingdoms of this world shall become the kingdoms of our God and of his Christ.

Yes, the day is fast approaching. What are you doing to speed its coming?

Well that is great that you can see it approaching.. and I have no idea what you mean about doing anything to speed it up. It shall come at the appointed time.

 

[Old Timer]

Restitution is a wondrous word in the scriptures.. the ancient OT book of the Exodus uses it in the context of making 'right' so to speak, for any who have suffered a loss.

Peter speaks of this in the context of the Lord's coming when he speaks to his fellow Israelites there in Jerusalem..

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

The times of refreshing.. the times of restitution of all things.. in that Day.. the Day of the LORD, the Day of Jesus Christ.

 

[AnticipateHisComing]

I'm sure that Israel will once again be the head of the nations at this time although to be safe let's just go with what the scripture does say, and that is that they shall rule over the twelve tribes of Israel.

We know that the LORD shall be King over all the earth (not only Israel) in that Day.

We know that Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

We know that when that seventh Angel sounds, that the kingdoms of this world shall become the kingdoms of our God and of his Christ.

At the 1st regeneration, do you think that all the souls in heaven will come to earth with Jesus? Is that all Christians or just the ones that didn't worship the beast? Is it just the 144,000 that some say? A lot of this is confusing.

Well that is great that you can see it approaching.. and I have no idea what you mean about doing anything to speed it up. It shall come at the appointed time.

Two ways to speed Jesus' coming;
1) we pray in the Lord's prayer, "Thy kingdom come"
2) we work hard to bring in the full number of saved.

Rom 11:25b Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in

2 Pet 3:12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming.

 

[Old Timer]

The same Apostle scripts these wondrous words for his brethren in the LORD..

Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ..

 

[Old Timer]

At the 1st regeneration, do you think that all the souls in heaven will come to earth with Jesus? Is that all Christians or just the ones that didn't worship the beast? Is it just the 144,000 that some say? A lot of this is confusing.

I'm not sure what you mean by saying "At the 1st regeneration"..

The context of this thread is the regeneration when the Son of man shall come in his glory and then sit upon the throne of his glory.

This should not be confounded with Christians being 'regenerated' by the washing of the Holy Ghost as Paul describes..

Two completely different things..

That said, we do know that the resurrection of the dead also coincides with the coming of the LORD.. and with respect to the church of God, we are told that the LORD shall bring with him the dead in Christ and that we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them to meet the LORD in the air.

The 144000 are clearly Israelites from the twelve named tribes.. in contrast to a multitude which could not be numbered.

I do agree that there is a lot going on here and so it's vital to keep things with respect to the church in their proper context and the same for Israel.

Two ways to speed Jesus' coming;
1) we pray in the Lord's prayer, "Thy kingdom come"
2) we work hard to bring in the full number of saved.

It's interesting to note that this is a Jewish prayer written within the context of Israelites. IOW we don't hear Paul teaching the church to pray that (even though I'm sure that it's fine to do so).. but rather that we remember the LORD in his death 'til he comes.

Rom 11:25b Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in

Yes, there shall be a fullness to the body of Christ, the Lamb's wife.. and then he shall present it to himself a glorious church without spot or wrinkle.

THEN... the Deliverer shall come from Sion and turn away ungodliness from Jacob.. (Israel)

2 Pet 3:12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming.

Peter, the Apostle to the circumcision..

Interesting isn't it?

 

[AnticipateHisComing]

I'm not sure what you mean by saying "At the 1st regeneration"..

The context of this thread is the regeneration when the Son of man shall come in his glory and then sit upon the throne of his glory.

This should not be confounded with Christians being 'regenerated' by the washing of the Holy Ghost as Paul describes..

Two completely different things..

That said, we do know that the resurrection of the dead also coincides with the coming of the LORD.. and with respect to the church of God, we are told that the LORD shall bring with him the dead in Christ and that we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them to meet the LORD in the air.

The 144000 are clearly Israelites from the twelve named tribes.. in contrast to a multitude which could not be numbered.

I do agree that there is a lot going on here and so it's vital to keep things with respect to the church in their proper context and the same for Israel.

Interesting isn't it?

Yes, it is interesting.

I thought that you were using the word regeneration interchangeably with resurrection.

From Rev. 20 I thought the saints will be resurrected the day Jesus comes back and will reign with him. So I was wondering do all saints come back with Jesus because scriptures only says that the ones that did not receive the mark of the beast will come back to reign with him? If all Christians come back to earth, that is a lot of people. Compared to all the Christians, the 144,000 Jews in heaven seems woefully short in number. That would be sad.

I was also wondering about the saints that are caught up in the air to meet Jesus and then reign with him. Some people talk about a rapture, but I thought that was the living saints going to heaven. What do you think happens to the living saints when Jesus comes?

 

[Old Timer]

Yes, it is interesting.

I thought that you were using the word regeneration interchangeably with resurrection.

Then apparently you haven't been following the thread.

This is still about the resurrection for you isn't it.. when you were asked what you 'say' concerning it being past or not..

Can you tell us what you believe about the resurrection of the dead since you're bringing it up..?

Is the resurrection past for those who are deceased in Christ?

From Rev. 20 I thought the saints will be resurrected the day Jesus comes back and will reign with him. So I was wondering do all saints come back with Jesus because scriptures only says that the ones that did not receive the mark of the beast will come back to reign with him? If all Christians come back to earth, that is a lot of people. Compared to all the Christians, the 144,000 Jews in heaven seems woefully short in number. That would be sad.

The scriptures do speak of his coming with thousands upon thousands of his saints.. and we hear of a multitude which could not be numbered in contrast to 144,000 Israelites who clearly are numbered.

I was also wondering about the saints that are caught up in the air to meet Jesus and then reign with him. Some people talk about a rapture, but I thought that was the living saints going to heaven. What do you think happens to the living saints when Jesus comes?

The context is the entire body of Christ meeting the LORD in the air.. again, not only those who are alive, but also those who are deceased in Christ.. they are raised FIRST.. and then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them.

 

[Bible2]

random person said in post 13:

The current world and the heavens is going to be removed 2 Peter 3:10 & Rev. 20:1-5.

Regarding 2 Peter 3:10-13, in the day of the Lord will occur the destruction of heaven (the first heaven: the sky, the atmosphere) and the earth (the surface of the earth) at the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11, Revelation 21:1). And this will be followed by the creation of a new atmosphere and surface for the earth (2 Peter 3:13, Revelation 21:1) onto which New Jerusalem, God the Father's house (John 14:2, Revelation 21:2-3), will descend from the 3rd heaven (Revelation 21:2-3). But the day of the Lord won't immediately bring the destruction of earth's atmosphere and surface. For the day of the Lord will begin at Jesus' 2nd coming (1 Corinthians 1:7-8) as a thief (2 Peter 3:10a, Revelation 16:15). And after his 2nd coming, he will establish his kingdom physically on the earth with the bodily resurrected church for 1,000 years (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29, Psalms 66:3-4, Psalms 72:8-11, Zechariah 14:3-21).

And after the 1,000 years, the Gog/Magog rebellion will occur (Revelation 20:7-10, Ezekiel chapters 38-39). And after its defeat, at least 7 more years will occur (Ezekiel 39:9b), before the earth's atmosphere and surface are destroyed at the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11). All these events, from Jesus' 2nd coming to the great white throne judgment, will be part of the day of the Lord. For it's not a 24-hour day, but to God is like a 1,000-year "day" (2 Peter 3:8).

random person said in post 13:

This will be the moment every one will resurrected to life, some to second death and some to eternal life. John 5:28-29, 1 Thess. 4:16.

Regarding John 5:28-29, it wasn't until later (cf. John 16:12) that Jesus showed the apostle John there will be two (still-unfulfilled) bodily resurrections separated by 1,000 years (Revelation 20:5). John 5:28-29 can include both of these, for the original Greek word translated as "hour" doesn't have to mean a literal hour, but can refer figuratively to any period of time. For example, the last "hour" of 1 John 2:18 (Greek) has been going on for the last 2,000 years. So the "hour" of everyone's still-future bodily resurrection (John 5:28-29) can easily span over a 1,000-year period (Revelation 20:5).

Also, at both the first and 2nd resurrection, some will undergo "the resurrection of life" while others will undergo "the resurrection of damnation" (John 5:29). For the first resurrection, at Jesus' never-fulfilled 2nd coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16), before the millennium (Revelation 20:4-6), will be of all those who became Christians (1 Corinthians 15:21-23). And some of them will lose their salvation at the 2nd coming (e.g. Luke 12:45-46), so that their resurrection will be a "resurrection of damnation" (John 5:29), a resurrection "unto shame and everlasting contempt" (Daniel 12:2), because of such things as unrepentant sin (Hebrews 10:26-29), unrepentant laziness (Matthew 25:26,30), or apostasy (Hebrews 6:4-8).

The 2nd resurrection, at the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11-15), after the future millennium and subsequent events are over (Revelation 20:7-15), will include all those of all times who never became Christians, and all those who became Christians during the millennium (Isaiah 66:19-21). At the great white throne judgment those Christians (of all times) who will lose their salvation and so will have their names blotted out of the book of life (Revelation 3:5) might be cast into the everlasting punishment of the lake of fire along with all non-Christians (Revelation 20:15,10, Matthew 25:41,46, Revelation 14:10-11, Mark 9:45-46).

random person said in post 13:

And He will also judge the living too. Matt. 13:37-42, 47-50, 25:31-33

Matthew 25:31 doesn't mean that Matthew 25:32-46 (just as 2 Peter 3:10a doesn't mean that 2 Peter 3:10b) will happen immediately at Jesus' 2nd coming, only that it will happen sometime subsequent to his 2nd coming, at the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11-15), after the future millennium and subsequent events (Revelation 20:7-15).

Matthew 25:32-46 refers to when the "nations" will be judged by their works at the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:12-13), whereas at the 2nd coming, Jesus will judge only those in the church (Psalms 50:3-5, cf. Mark 13:27; Matthew 25:19-30). Also, Matthew 25:41,46 refers to when the unsaved of all times, whether Jews or Gentiles, will be sent into the everlasting punishment of the lake of fire and brimstone at the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:15), whereas at the 2nd coming only the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") and his False Prophet will be cast into the lake of fire (Revelation 19:20). The saved "sheep" at the sheep/goat judgment will include those, whether Jews or Gentiles, who will become believers during the millennium (Isaiah 66:19-21). Matthew 25:34 refers to obedient believers inheriting the kingdom of the Father on the new earth in New Jerusalem, the Father's house (Revelation 21:1-7, John 14:2).