If you are still sinning you do not belong to Jesus Christ

cgaviria

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I have quoted Scriptures and provided exegesis for such several times so have a multitude of others. Perhaps that should be an indicator.

What was unfamiliar in my word use?

Your words are not "unfamiliar", I am just not impressed by such usage of words, when the word of God is much more simpler, even Paul said,
And so it was with me, brothers and sisters. When I came to you, I did not come with eloquence or human wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God. (1 Corinthians 2:1 [NIV])

So your seemingly intelligent vocabulary is really just, well... very unintelligent in relation to the word of God. Everything I have said I have backed with scripture. The scriptures are plain, be perfect, sin no more, he who is born of God cannot sin, by one offering he has perfected, he came to bring an end to sin, he came to bring an end to lawless deeds.... all these things are in scripture. I've affirmed it. Will you bend to these scriptures, or will you keep giving me your seemingly eloquent "exegesis" of nonsense?
 
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redleghunter

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The burden of reconciliation rests on the absolute statement. John says, "he who is born of God cannot sin", but he also says, "if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous." Not you have an advocate, but we.
The context demonstrates that John's use of absolute terms does not signify moral perfection.

Very interesting. Thanks.
 
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cgaviria

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There are of course two looming problems with the arguments you present @cgaviria.

Firstly, because you reject or alter canonical Scripture, your appeal to it is dubious; we know of at least two places where you alter it in a manner nit supported by scholarship, and you are also known to have based doctrines on works or rather a part of a work universally regarded as erroneous apocrypha. So when you appeal to scripture, we have no way of knowing whether or not you are appealing to the same scripture we use.

Secondly, and more pressingly, by de-personalizing the Holy Spirit, you appeal to the reception of something ontologocally different from the Holy Spirit described in the Gospels. The Holy Spirit is a person, a prosopon. In reducing Him from a Him to an impersonal force or the indwelling of mere angels, younradically alter the meaning of the concept.



No, our Lord came to restore our tarnished human natjre and to glorify it, allowing human beings to become sons of God by adoption. Being assosted into ceasing to sin is a part of this, it however is not the raison d'etre.



Sin is subtle. Your problem here is that you limit the inclination lf sin to the most obvious outward temptations, ignoring entirely the temptation to vainglory and self-righteousness, which is more dangerous and tends to plague those who have attained some degree of partial ascesis.



If someone boasts of being sinless, we can assert they still are sinful. Whereas someone truly sinless would hesitate to mention the fact.

Indeed, Orthodox hagiography has many examples of the Salios, or Holy Fool. These were exceptional ascetics who "played the part" of madmen to avoid praise for their holiness, to disdain all honour.

Full obedience to God is not arrogance, it is actually something different, it is fearing God, to not want to disobey him, and also loving God, to want to obey him fully. And all this is scriptural, hence, "be perfect, sin no more, he who is born of God cannot sin, by one offering he has perfected, he came to bring an end to sin, he came to bring an end to lawless deeds", etc...

So, you're interpretation that you can or will sin, well, its lukewarm. You either do not sin anymore, or you continue sinning. There is no in between. This in between, is a delusion. And if you think that being in this lukewarm, does Jesus Christ say, he will vomit you.
 
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redleghunter

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Your words are not "unfamiliar", I am just not impressed by such usage of words, when the word of God is much more simpler, even Paul said,


So your seemingly intelligent vocabulary is really just, well... very unintelligent in relation to the word of God. Everything I have said I have backed with scripture. The scriptures are plain, be perfect, sin no more, he who is born of God cannot sin, by one offering he has perfected, he came to bring an end to sin, he came to bring an end to lawless deeds.... all these things are in scripture. I've affirmed it. Will you bend to these scriptures, or will you keep giving me your seemingly eloquent "exegesis" of nonsense?

I understand, however you have no formal training in the Scriptures. That much is clear.

You are using the Bible like it is a jigsaw puzzle and it is not.

You quote and comment but there is scant exegesis other than you telling us what you say is right.
 
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Wgw

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Your words are not "unfamiliar", I am just not impressed by such usage of words, when the word of God is much more simpler, even Paul said,

Herein, you employ a shockingly superficial definition of eloquence, conflating it with grandiloquence. St. Paul is not the most eloquent writer in the NT for several reasons: like me, he tends to use complex technical and theological language, unusual sentence constructions which come across as meandering, and he employs references to aspects of Hellenic culture which are obscure and have been lost on many readers in later centuries. for example, "all Cretans are liars."

On the contrary, the Gospel of John is the most eloquent work in the NT, precisely owing to its simplicity. However, not everyone is able to write in that manner; recall also Pascal's apology for writing a long letter, as he lacked the time to compose a short one.

So your seemingly intelligent vocabulary is really just, well... very unintelligent in relation to the word of God.

Needlessly and without provocation insulting a brother over an aesthetic quibble regarding literary style is hardly the fruit of sinlessness, I should say.

Everything I have said I have backed with scripture. The scriptures are plain, be perfect, sin no more, he who is born of God cannot sin, by one offering he has perfected, he came to bring an end to sin, he came to bring an end to lawless deeds.... all these things are in scripture. I've affirmed it. Will you bend to these scriptures, or will you keep giving me your seemingly eloquent "exegesis" of nonsense?

On this point, I propose that once more, we return unto the breech of what defines Scripture. For just now, in another thread, you have resorted to arguing a passage from the Apocalypse was incorrectly translated.
 
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royal priest

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Faith without works is dead. You either believe this, or you do not.
You do realize you're trying to convince someone who's title is "trust and obey"?
 
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Wgw

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Full obedience to God is not arrogance, it is actually something different, it is fearing God, to not want to disobey him, and also loving God, to want to obey him fully. And all this is scriptural, hence, "be perfect, sin no more, he who is born of God cannot sin, by one offering he has perfected, he came to bring an end to sin, he came to bring an end to lawless deeds", etc...

I agree. The problem is that the process for ridding ourselves of sin you propose is, broadly speaking, divergent from anything any Christian has previously taught, and is predocated upon a materially different set of "Scripture," in that you have revised scripture to contour it to your doctrinal positions. What is more, you offer us no compelling reason to accept your authority to do any of this; you have yet to show anyone here for example that you are personally sinless, and you have denied having received the spirit.

So, you're interpretation that you can or will sin, well, its lukewarm. You either do not sin anymore, or you continue sinning. There is no in between. This in between, is a delusion. And if you think that being in this lukewarm, does Jesus Christ say, he will vomit you.

This is not my interpretation. My interpretation is that our salvation does entail an eventual liberation from the sinful passions. I simply reject your claims as to how this is accomplished.
 
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Strong in Him

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I'm confused...is this a new thread? Were we not discussing this SAME exact topic on another thread?

Yes, the thread on why the trinity is a false doctrine, somehow got onto this subject.

I don't know for sure, but the OP reminds me of a forummer we used to have on here, who went by the name of Giver. One of Giver's main traits was that if anyone challenged him, asked him to back up his words or called him on all the insults he was posting; he'd lay low for a bit, then start another thread on the same subject.
It's possible this is what is happening here.
 
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civilwarbuff

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Jesus Christ didn't just come to atone for iniquities once and for all, he also came to bring an end to sin.
Then he failed miserably.
Mark 10:18
Romans 3:10
 
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cgaviria

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Then he failed miserably.
Mark 10:18
Romans 3:10

No, only a few are chosen. 144,000 to be exact, plus the 3 patriarchs, the 24 elders which are the twelve tribe fathers and the 12 apostles, and of course the lamb of God. These are the elect that will inherit the kingdom to come.
 
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civilwarbuff

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No, only a few are chosen. 144,000 to be exact, plus the 3 patriarchs, the 24 elders which are the twelve tribe fathers and the 12 apostles, and of course the lamb of God. These are the elect that will inherit the kingdom to come.
....
 
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Wgw

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No, only a few are chosen.

"This is my blood of the new covenant, which will be poured out for you and for many." Not "for few" or rather in this case for "very few."
 
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cgaviria

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All who are chosen in the new covenant, will become perfected. Those who are not chosen, will not understand, and will never attain the perfection imparted by the holy spirit. Only 144,000 will be chosen and sealed out of the billions that have existed and exist on the earth, plus the 24, the 3, and the son of God. These will inherit the kingdom of the millennial.
 
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royal priest

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There are no pastors nor teachers that I have found to be in the right here in America. I have searched in many places with the intent to come under guidance and leadership, but have found none. Everyone has a different flavor of false doctrine, and everyone is in sin in some way or another, at least here in America. So yes, it is just I for now here in in this city, until I am baptized in holy spirit myself, and then go on to carry a powerful ministry for the Lord here in America or wherever he sends me, to plant house churches.
I would like to encourage you to reconsider your opinion that you are literally the only person who understands the Bible. Proverbs 12:15; Proverbs 18:1-2.
 
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Goatee

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Your words are not "unfamiliar", I am just not impressed by such usage of words, when the word of God is much more simpler, even Paul said,


So your seemingly intelligent vocabulary is really just, well... very unintelligent in relation to the word of God. Everything I have said I have backed with scripture. The scriptures are plain, be perfect, sin no more, he who is born of God cannot sin, by one offering he has perfected, he came to bring an end to sin, he came to bring an end to lawless deeds.... all these things are in scripture. I've affirmed it. Will you bend to these scriptures, or will you keep giving me your seemingly eloquent "exegesis" of nonsense?

Romans 14:10-12
10 Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of God; 11 for it is written,

“As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me,
and every tongue shall give praise to God.”
 
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Strong in Him

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No, only a few are chosen. 144,000 to be exact, plus the 3 patriarchs, the 24 elders which are the twelve tribe fathers and the 12 apostles, and of course the lamb of God.

That's not what Scripture says.
 
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Goatee

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No, only a few are chosen. 144,000 to be exact, plus the 3 patriarchs, the 24 elders which are the twelve tribe fathers and the 12 apostles, and of course the lamb of God. These are the elect that will inherit the kingdom to come.

This is another instance of where you interpret scripture in your own 'cave man' way.
 
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