If sin is God's plan, how are we to repent?

[visionary]

Ephesians 1:4
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

This is and was before sin entered the picture.. and it still is His ultimate plan... The contingency plan is the plan of redemption... The Son of God, Yeshua, offered Himself when He saw that sin entered into His creation. His loving heart must have been moved with love and infinite compassion as He saw sin take His perfect and start to eat away at the very life of all the living from the inside out. Yeshua had a plan whereby man might be redeemed and He revealed it and outlined it in the law of Moses. The broken law of God demanded the life of the sinner.

In all the universe there was but one who could, in behalf of man, satisfy its claims. Since the divine law is as sacred as God Himself, only one equal with God could make atonement for its transgression. None but Yeshua could redeem fallen man from the curse of the law and bring him again into harmony with Heaven. Yeshua took upon Himself the guilt and shame of sin--sin so offensive to a holy God that it must separate the Father and His Son, and died on the cross to pay that penalty. Yeshua came to rescue mankind from the sin and its devastation, destructive tendencies, and delusive powers.

Before the Father He pleaded in the sinner's behalf, as our High Priest which is called "the counsel of peace" (Zechariah 6:13) for the fallen sons of men. The plan of salvation had been laid before the creation of the earth; for Yeshua is "the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world" (Revelation 13:8); yet it was a struggle, even with the King of the universe, to yield up His Son to die for the guilty race. But "God so loved the world, that He gave His only-begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16.

 

[Hismessenger]

I want to pursue your statement to its logical conclusion. Can I pick my nose, go to the toilet, have a shower and mow my garden lawn without him?

I know that I need his breath and strength to do these things, but what about the specific trite acts I have just listed? Can I commit the specific act of picking my nose without him?

Or, has he given me free will to choose these things (and their consequences) and in his foreknowledge, he knows what I will do?

In a word no. Without his breath which should be evident, what could you do but die?
You answered your own question and didn't even realize what you had said.

hismessenger

 

[visionary]

What is your biblical evidence for this?

Oz

Crime is increasing with each generation and the curse of sin would rest more and more heavily upon us humans, upon the beasts, and upon the earth itself. The days of man would be shortened by his own course of sin; he would deteriorate in physical stature and endurance and in moral and intellectual power, until the world is be filled with misery of every type. We know that is true, because we see it all around us.

Through the indulgence of appetite and passion men would become incapable of appreciating the great truths of the plan of redemption. Yet Yeshua, true to the purpose for which He left heaven, would continue His love and interest in men, and still invite them to hide their weakness and deficiencies in Him. He supplies the needs of all who would come unto Him in faith. And there would ever be a few who would preserve the knowledge of God and would remain unsullied amid the prevailing iniquity.

The sacrificial offerings were ordained by God to be to man a perpetual reminder and a penitential acknowledgment of his sin and a confession of his faith in the promised Redeemer. They were intended to impress upon the fallen race the solemn truth that it was sin that caused death. To Adam, the offering of the first sacrifice was a most painful ceremony. His hand must be raised to take life, which only God could give. It was the first time he had ever witnessed death, and he knew that had he been obedient to God, there would have been no death of man or beast. As he slew the innocent victim, he trembled at the thought that his sin must shed the blood of the spotless Lamb of God. This scene gave him a deeper and more vivid sense of the greatness of his transgression, which nothing but the death of God's dear Son could expiate. And he marveled at the infinite goodness that would give such a ransom to save the guilty. A star of hope illumined the dark and terrible future and relieved it of its utter desolation. Death has a way of bring it all home to the heart of the seriousness of sin.

But the plan of redemption had a yet broader and deeper purpose than the salvation of man. It was not for this alone that Yeshua came to the earth; it was not merely that the inhabitants of this little world might regard the law of God as it should be regarded; but it was to vindicate the character of God before the universe. To this result of His great sacrifice--its influence upon the intelligences of other worlds, as well as upon man--the Saviour looked forward when just before His crucifixion He said: "Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

 

[BillyShope]

This is God's will and plan:

"Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."
First Timothy 2:4

He would be working against Himself if He...in any way...encouraged the sin that clouds the minds of men.

 

[Rev Randy]

There is a big difference between allowing and will. It was never God's will that Adam sinned. He foreknew it but He did not desire (will) it. God has not caused man to sin. That job belongs to another. It is God's will that you sin not. Grace is God's patience with us while we work out overcoming sin. We are not God's puppets. We are His Children and if saved, working to become better servants.
We should never forget that OUR righteousness is as filthy rags (literally toilet paper). What we put on is the righteousness of Christ.

 

[BillyShope]

Sin is the tool god uses to create a love in his people. Who will love god more one who has been forgiven a little or alot

Interesting reasoning, but totally unscriptural.
http://www.shopeshop.org/preChoice.htm

 

[Rev Randy]

This thread seems to be a poor attempt to make the logic of the Calvinist as unsound. While I'm no Calvinist I find this a sad arguement against it.
Sin is NOT a tool of God. It's the desires of mankind and a ploy of the devil. The Law was a teaching tool of God to show mankind the need for a saviour.
Seems I have more in common with the calvinists than I thought as I also cannot walk, talk and do anything without Jesus. The difference is IMO it's a God led choice. The calvinist has the opinion it's predestined. Either can lead to Christ. Sin cannot.

 

[Gottservant]

If sin is God's plan, you are not thinking of sin, you are thinking of iniquity.

So die or cut it off or go back to repenting.

 

[pshun2404]

If sin is God's plan...it is not and was not His "plan", Satan introduced it having been the first through rebellion. God foreknew it would be there but foreknowing does not equal causing. If you claim the works of the devil (which Jesus came to overcome) are God's works, this is blasphemy...

Paul

 

[pshun2404]

Genesis 1:28 “And God blessed them, and God said unto them…have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moves upon the earth.”

Psalm 8:4-6 “What is man, that You are mindful of him? and the son of man, that you visit him? For You have made him a little lower than the angels, and have crowned him with glory and honor. You made him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; You have put all things under his feet"

In Hebrews 2:8 the writer declares, “But now we see that all things are yet not under him”

When sin entered the world man lost his promised dominion (gave it over to Satan) …so that now Satan is the god of this world (1 Corinthians 4:4) so real is his acquired lordship that when tempting Christ (who is very God Himself) he offers him the kingdoms of this world in exchange for Christ bowing down and worshipping him. But praise God He had another way.

God therefore gave mankind “dominion” (radar – to dominate, rule, subjugate). This is part of God’s very first blessing given to man. God meant that on earth man should rule. Man was the one who would make the decisions, and control, and subdue, and care for and dress the garden, etc.

Mankind HAD TO HAVE free-will to be able to have dominion. This is in fact what made it possible for man to fall. He was not created or foreordained (as in made to) to lose this wonderful gift he lost it by his own free-will. God foreknew (not caused) that he would and so since the beginning Christ was plan A and not the contingency (plan B). For because God IS just, having given control of the earth to man, He would not simply take it back. It was man’s to do with as he willed. So now, Satan has legal dominion within God’s will (but not because God preferred this, or caused this, though He foreknew it would happen). So when the blessing came, foreknowing the transaction that would take place, the solution was already in place (Christ). In the eternal all is as if it has all transpired but in the temporal it is all playing out in linear temporal time (subject to chronos). The solution (in the eternal) preceded the problem (in the temporal) but it was by man’s will that man chose to disobey (that is Adam, because Eve was beguiled, persuaded, convinced). God cannot be blamed, and Adam is thus responsible for his sin and for the consequence of that act which brought death upon all men (death being the consequence of being a god unto oneself – Genesis 3:5 – and not a punishment). All men through procreation inherit this death because all have sinned (not that they were born condemned but that they all will to sin and do sin because their nature has been corrupted) and each one is responsible and deemed guilty because of their own sin. The soul that sins it must die. God is clear in the law and the prophets that He does not hold the children responsible for the sins of the fathers, nor the fathers for the sins of their children.

Think on these things…

Paul

 

[gasman64]

You guys have confused yourselves... read this. perhaps it may enlighten you.

Remnant Bible Studies Origins of Sin Intro Page

 

[shturt678]

God decided who his "elect" are James-49 ... the problem is we don't know who they are hence, a lot of us think we do, but more importantly God is always bending things by his necessity for his will to be done just out of our sight and his grace is such that by not being 'effect' through a genuine "repentance," "faith" will not save anyone ... hence let's take another look at repentance as i know you already aware of,
Its full sense: Denotes the change from realized sin in true contrition, that is, away from sin to a true faith. Foremost to not having a genuine justifying "faith," thinking that one really has, is a good example of "sin" beyond the way we look at in the temporal realm ... just an opinion ...

 

[Hismessenger]

Mankind HAD TO HAVE free-will to be able to have dominion.

What man has was given to him by God. God gave him dominion, he did not choose it by free will.

hismessenger

 

[shturt678]

Let's take another look at the Garden ... God said thou shalt NOT and said thou SHALL ... when someone tells me what i shall not do and what i shall do, i don't see much freedom here ... same in the Garden in Genesis ... now defining Free-will, the power to apply one's self to the things that make for salvation, we had an enslaved will in the Garden and still have.

just an opinion

 

[shturt678]

Let's take another look at the Garden ... God said thou shalt NOT and said thou SHALL ... when someone tells me what i shall not do and what i shall do, i don't see much freedom here ... same in the Garden in Genesis ... now defining Free-will, the power to apply one's self to the things that make for salvation, we had an enslaved will in the Garden and still have.

just an opinion

 

[Hismessenger]

Let's understand the nature of free will. There is our human nature and then there is the Devine nature. Now the question that must be asked as I asked on another thread is what is the purpose of choice ? In free will. Can we decide that we will go where we want when we want or is it because of our nature that we make a choice. That is the. Essence of our free will. We are able to choose which nature we will operate in. That is the the total of our free will. Either we choose to follow God or we continue on in our nature we are born in. That is our free will, to be able to choose good verses evil. It has nothing to do with every day things that we do. Look at the story of JONAH, if we had free will as all believe, when Jonah made His Choice, that's what it would be. But we know what happen so how do you define free will?

hismessenger