If God commands me to kill someone...

[JGG]

I thought it was one of the 10 commandments, but there were other laws with war. Is it evil if they kill people to protect the innocent ones in a war like WWII?

It's nice to think we were protecting the innocents, but I don't think we were. I think everyone was protecting political interests. After all, we did drop two bombs on innocent people. I wouldn't call that righteous.

 

[RC1970]

I ve been in the same situation when I was wondering streets at night and I couldnt even pary to God to protect me. I dont know how payer works some people say you got to wait to get answer from God.

Just say "God help me". He knows what you mean.

I have waited years and years to receive answers, but sometimes it only takes a few minutes.

 

[RDKirk]

Okay, but it doesn't offer the statement I asked for. What others have told me here is that God is free to violate His commandments, and if He asks me to, I am compelled to do so.

Is there some assurance that God would not ask me to do that here?

About the same assurance an American soldier has that the US Constitution will not be abolished this afternoon.

 

[Messy]

It's nice to think we were protecting the innocents, but I don't think we were. I think everyone was protecting political interests. After all, we did drop two bombs on innocent people. I wouldn't call that righteous.

Yes but they did liberate Europe and the people in concentration camps. I think it would be bad if they hadn't done anything, but I don't know. I would never kill someone. They asked Corrie ten Boom to kill a nazi but she said she was a christian and couldn't kill someone for that reason.

 

[RDKirk]

It's nice to think we were protecting the innocents, but I don't think we were. I think everyone was protecting political interests. After all, we did drop two bombs on innocent people. I wouldn't call that righteous.

What makes your call infallible?

And what makes your judgment of "righteousness" any more logically credible than Dylan Roof's?

 

[Soyeong]

Genocide isn't just about ethnicity. It is killing a group of people based on some identity. Religion, for instance. That they were commanded to kill the Canaanites makes it genocide. The reason they were killed is irrelevant.

Canaanites were not targeted because they were Canaanites, nor were they targeted with the aim of killing all Canaanites.

Was it? Where was Moses condemned for it?

I might be wrong, it might be that Moses was justified in coming to the defense of another and needed to kill in order to save their life. Or it could be that he was wrong and was penalized.

So, how do you condemn ISIS if they believe God has commanded them to destroy non-believers or infidels? You would do the same if you believed God asked it of you.

I believe that ISIS is wrong about God commanding them to kill infidels. I believe that God is just and if He kills someone or commands it, then it is because they have done something that justifies His action, not because they aren't followers of Him. At no point in the Bible does God command the death of others simply because they aren't His followers.

 

[Hank77]

God commanded Abraham to kill Isaac. God commanded Moses to murder. God commanded the Israelites to commit genocide. God would not command murder or genocide again?

What we see when God was establishing the nation of Israel is quite different than what we see in the NT. Many things that God did and told people to do are relevant, even prophetic in substance.
Abraham being willing to sacrifice his own son and his son was willingly obedient to his father and the replacement of the ram for a sacrificial blood offering. They are all prophetic, an image of future events. So they had more than one purpose in God's plan.
God did not tell Moses to murder anyone that I know of. The three thousand who lost their lives at Mt Sinai were judged by God as idolators and their sentence of death was carried out by those who were not idolators. But in the NT we don't see any teachings that say we are to kill someone for idolatry. In fact, on the day of Pentecost rather than people dying 3,000 people were saved.
God commanded the Israelites to claim the land of Canaan and how to go about it. God knowing all things knew the hearts of the Canaanites. When God told them to destroy the Amalekites they didn't and the Amalekites would continue in their generations to harm the people of the nation of Israel. We don't see God commanding these types of things in the NT dispensation that we are living in. God is among all the nations now, not just the nation of Israel.

 

[JGG]

Canaanites were not targeted because they were Canaanites, nor were they targeted with the aim of killing all Canaanites.

But we're agreed that God commanded the Israelites to kill the Canaanites? Not only the Canaanites themselves to be killed, but "[every]thing that breathes" were to be "completely destroyed". Livestock, children, crops...

I might be wrong, it might be that Moses was justified in coming to the defense of another and needed to kill in order to save their life. Or it could be that he was wrong and was penalized.

It doesn't say, does it?

I believe that ISIS is wrong about God commanding them to kill infidels. I believe that God is just and if He kills someone or commands it, then it is because they have done something that justifies His action, not because they aren't followers of Him. At no point in the Bible does God command the death of others simply because they aren't His followers.

But ours is not to ask why God wants people killed, is it? Maybe because they're infidels, maybe because they're ugly, maybe because it's Tuesday. God does not answer to us.

So how can you say ISIS is wrong?

 

[JGG]

What we see when God was establishing the nation of Israel is quite different than what we see in the NT. Many things that God did and told people to do are relevant, even prophetic in substance.
Abraham being willing to sacrifice his own son and his son was willingly obedient to his father and the replacement of the ram for a sacrificial blood offering. They are all prophetic, an image of future events. So they had more than one purpose in God's plan.
God did not tell Moses to murder anyone that I know of. The three thousand who lost their lives at Mt Sinai were judged by God as idolators and their sentence of death was carried out by those who were not idolators. But in the NT we don't see any teachings that say we are to kill someone for idolatry. In fact, on the day of Pentecost rather than people dying 3,000 people were saved.
God commanded the Israelites to claim the land of Canaan and how to go about it. God knowing all things knew the hearts of the Canaanites. When God told them to destroy the Amalekites they didn't and the Amalekites would continue in their generations to harm the people of the nation of Israel. We don't see God commanding these types of things in the NT dispensation that we are living in. God is among all the nations now, not just the nation of Israel.

Okay. Does God have to explain why He wants someone dead? If God says to kill the people at ComicCon because geeks offend Him, is that reason enough for me to do it?

 

[JGG]

What makes your call infallible?

And what makes your judgment of "righteousness" any more logically credible than Dylan Roof's?

Because I've been told not to kill anyone, and I haven't. If God asks me to do otherwise then that command is irrelevant, and none of us can condemn Roof, or ISIS.

 

[Soyeong]

But we're agreed that God commanded the Israelites to kill the Canaanites? Not only the Canaanites themselves to be killed, but "[every]thing that breathes" were to be "completely destroyed". Livestock, children, crops...

This explains the what happened better than I can:

http://christianthinktank.com/qamorite.html

It doesn't say, does it?

It explicitly say, but considering the Egyptian attitudes towards Israelites, it is reasonable that he was getting beaten to death and Moses stepped in to prevent it. More reasonable than that in intervened with the intent to murder. And even if it was murder, it's not reasonable to assume that God thought it was fine.

But ours is not to ask why God wants people killed, is it? Maybe because they're infidels, maybe because they're ugly, maybe because it's Tuesday. God does not answer to us.

So how can you say ISIS is wrong?

The issue is disagreement over the character of God. It is not within the character of the God of Christianity to kill because of those reasons.

 

[anonymous person]

Are you suggesting that Abraham was mentally ill?

Abraham was not mentally ill.

 

[anonymous person]

God can lie?

No.

Suppose it is not one man, but a group of men? A country?

If God commands us to kill a group of men or even an entire country's population, then we are obligated to do so.

I don't understand why we would require proof that God is commanding someone to commit homicide, but in other cases where we speak to God we take for granted that it really is God.

God cannot command someone to commit homicide.

 

[anonymous person]

Then who are we to condemn the actions of ISIS when they commit homicide or genocide because they believe that God has told them to do so, while we freely admit that in the same position we would do the same?

We are they who recognize that just because someone believes God told them to do something it does not mean that God told them to do it.

Nor are we admitting that we would commit homicide. God cannot command anyone to commit homicide.

How can we condemn James Holmes (the movie theater shooter), or Dylann Roof (South Carolina shooter) for killing people? God could very well have commanded them to do it, and could command one of us to do it.

They murdered people. God cannot command anyone to murder.

 

[anonymous person]

The Canaanites?

They were not killed because they were members of a specific ethnicity. They were killed because (among other evils) they were committing abominable evils like offering their babies to be burned as sacrifices to the gods they worshiped for example.

When Moses killed an Egyptian it was against the law, and Moses knew it. He fled.

Against whose law? The Egyptian's law or God's?

God commands in several instances that people should be killed if they did certain things.

God commanded never to murder. He never said never kill.

Killing someone may be justified. Murder by definition is never justified.

The commandment, thou shalt not kill is with regards to murdering someone.

So if God commands to me to commit murder I should do it?

God will never command you to commit murder so you do not have to trouble yourself about that.

 

[GracetotheHumble]

We are under the new covenant. Christ taught that we should love one another. Christians do not kill others.

 

[Soyeong]

We are under the new covenant. Christ taught that we should love one another. Christians do not kill others.

Being under the New Covenant has no relevance to this issue because God didn't change. The NT is just as much about love and judgement as the OT.

 

[GracetotheHumble]

Being under the New Covenant has no relevance to this issue because God didn't change. The NT is just as much about love and judgement as the OT.

You have no clue what you are talking about. In the Old Covenant the Jews were the chosen people and it was necessary that they kill others in wars for their nation. As Christians we are a heavenly kingdom and God never requires that we kill others. His commandment is that we love others.

 

[Soyeong]

You have no clue what you are talking about. In the Old Covenant the Jews were the chosen people and it was necessary that they kill others in wars for their nation. As Christians we are a heavenly kingdom and God never requires that we kill others. His commandment is that we love others.

Leviticus 19:18 “‘Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against anyone among your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the Lord.

Leviticus 19:34 The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the Lord your God.

God commanded to love each other in the OT too, so that isn't anything new.

 

[anonymous person]

We are under the new covenant.

Yes we are.

Christ taught that we should love one another.

Yes He did.

Christians do not kill others.

From this it would then follow that all of the Christians who are doctors, police officers, soldiers, etc. who have taken a life were committing a sin.

There are many Christians who have had to kill people for justifiable reasons. The doctor whose only choice is to either terminate the life of an unborn child to save the life of the mother or either see both of them die due to birth complications kills the child and is no less a follower of Christ for doing so.

The police officer who is a Christian who shoots and kills a madman who refuses to listen to the pleas of the negotiators for the life of the five year old girl he is holding at gunpoint is no less a follower of Christ for doing so.

This applies to the soldiers and any other Christian who finds themselves by the will of God, in a position where they must take a life.

Killing is not necessarily a sin.