I would appreciate prayer...

[Heber Book List]

I have to face a denominational Appeal Commission on Tuesday 3rd May at 10.30am GMT. Some people have been making wildly false complaints against me; it is unbelievable that the complainants actually call themselves Christians.

Unfortunately, the process being used does not allow me to have anyone to speak for me, or represent me, at the Commission, or for witnesses to be called by me. I have been allowed to submit some papers, but that is not quite the same as being allowed to have witnesses to what you are saying. It will be seven of them against me, and that is it.

My Appeal is against an attempt made to remove me from Office (meaning I would lose my home and work - as I am technically a self employed Holder of a Clerical Office, so I have no employment rights) at the end of 2015, because the process they have followed is flawed, unfair and biased, from beginning to end, and may violate the European Convention on Human Rights. I have, only recently, actually learned of the charges against me, and I now have a file that is well over a centimetre thick of various papers I must read up ready to be questioned and to attempt to put my side of matters. Some of the complaints relate directly to me teaching from a Jewish perspective, but I suspect that might be so behind a number of the complaints, because most of them are actually demonstrably untrue.

Prayer will be most welcome! Thanks in advance.

 

[Hoshiyya]

I sympathize with you. It seems you are pretty much at the mercy of people who you indicate want to fire you.
I hope you find new employment if that happens, particularly employment where you cannot be fired for your opinions.

I can see a lesson in your situation. Holding a purely religious position makes one very vulnerable. (This is why some Catholic or Protestant priests remain in their job, even after losing their faith.)

This is why the Rabbi Yeshua had a job like carpenter, and why many other historical Rabbis held similar "secular" positions.
Paul either made tents or saddles depending on translation.

What church organization are you affiliated with ?

 

[visionary]

You have my prayers that not only are you victorious, but you were called for such a time as this to witness the truth before them. I pray that the leaders are stirred by the righteousness of your work, the humble appeal for faithfulness in following Yeshua for yourself and for their sakes. I pray that God's Presence is felt that day and conviction brings forth the fruit of righteousness within the leaders. I pray that the Lord opens up for you, His Way, His Truth, His Life, His wings of shelter in this storm. May you be protect, covered, and say only that which the Holy Spirit gives you in the moment. May mighty warriors across the globe join in prayer for you.

You might want to look up their history of Jewish people who have gave them the concordance, hebrew translation, etc... as evidence that you are following in the footsteps of those who have gone before and have given great gains by doing so.

 

[Heber Book List]

I sympathize with you. It seems you are pretty much at the mercy of people who you indicate want to fire you.
I hope you find new employment if that happens, particularly employment where you cannot be fired for your opinions.

I can see a lesson in your situation. Holding a purely religious position makes one very vulnerable. (This is why some Catholic or Protestant priests remain in their job, even after losing their faith.)

This is why the Rabbi Yeshua had a job like carpenter, and why many other historical Rabbis held similar "secular" positions.
Paul either made tents or saddles depending on translation.

What church organization are you affiliated with ?

Hi there, it is one of the UK Reformed protestant denominations. I was ordained nearly 25 years ago, and have had no problems until now.

 

[Heber Book List]

You have my prayers that not only are you victorious, but you were called for such a time as this to witness the truth before them. I pray that the leaders are stirred by the righteousness of your work, the humble appeal for faithfulness in following Yeshua for yourself and for their sakes. I pray that God's Presence is felt that day and conviction brings forth the fruit of righteousness within the leaders. I pray that the Lord opens up for you, His Way, His Truth, His Life, His wings of shelter in this storm. May you be protect, covered, and say only that which the Holy Spirit gives you in the moment. May mighty warriors across the globe join in prayer for you.

You might want to look up their history of Jewish people who have gave them the concordance, hebrew translation, etc... as evidence that you are following in the footsteps of those who have gone before and have given great gains by doing so.

Thank you. I now know exactly what Rudyard Kipling's poem 'IF' is all about - just change the word 'man' in the last line and replace it with 'Pastor'!

 

[The Lone Ranger]

Proverbs 16:7. Mark 13:11. Luke 6:27-49?

 

[Boogeyman07]

He will hold you up, if it's meant to be. If not, then you weren't supposed to be where you are anymore for whatever reason. Have faith, be strong, I'll pray for you

 

[pat34lee]

Have you been asking to see if He may
want you out of that place? It may be
time to get out of your comfort zone
and ready to move where he wants you.

 

[Tishri1]

Praying for you Heber!!

 

[Heber Book List]

Have you been asking to see if He may
want you out of that place? It may be
time to get out of your comfort zone
and ready to move where he wants you.

The Spirit has not been saying I should leave - quite the opposite, as a number of members are also saying, which is why I am fighting it. Most of the lies are coming from a small group of people who have made very serious, but very untrue, claims against me - some bordering on the ridiculous - and have hoodwinked the regional staff to attempt to force me out, but in trying to do that they have, themselves, made many procedural errors, not least in preventing me from responding to the claims made, so breaking Human Rights legislation at a secular level, if nothing else; all this is why I entered an Appeal against their attempt at my Removal from Office.

I do not think the G_d of all truth uses downright lies to move someone on, and neither does he use deceit to move people around. I do, however, know someone who uses these things to gain his own way and so to wreck G_d's work; he and I have clashed many times!!

I should add that I have not been here for the whole 25 years! If it goes OK it will be the end of 800 days of extreme stress. If not, it starts all over again, but to a higher Council of the Church.

 

[visionary]

This reminds me of Luther's trials. I read about how he was called up on charges and the Lord granted him audience where he saw what the Lord knew he needed to see and hear. It was such a spiritual battle within him that a new determination and denomination formed from the experience. I am not saying that is what you want for an outcome, but the need is great in your area, for you to lead the people forward like Moses leading the people out of Egypt. Starting with the leaders you will be standing before.

 

[Norbert L]

as I am technically a self employed Holder of a Clerical Office, so I have no employment rights

Have you sought legal council? Because I've heard Canadian lawyers who specialize in employment law talk about this kind of stuff, that there are laws the general public is not aware about.

 

[Heber Book List]

Have you sought legal council? Because I've heard Canadian lawyers who specialize in employment law talk about this kind of stuff, that there are laws the general public is not aware about.

Yes, there may be a case based on Article 6:4 of the European Convention on Human Rights that requires that people against whom complaints / charges are made - civil or criminal - have the right to be told the complaints / charges and to respond to those complaints / charges and be able to enter a defence. What is happening here is that the denomination is acting as the police, the warder, the judge, the jury and the jailer, all in one and none of them will speak to me about any of it, either. The national body accepts that their process is wrong but 'until [they] change it, we have to work with what it says at the moment'.

 

[Heber Book List]

This reminds me of Luther's trials. I read about how he was called up on charges and the Lord granted him audience where he saw what the Lord knew he needed to see and hear. It was such a spiritual battle within him that a new determination and denomination formed from the experience. I am not saying that is what you want for an outcome, but the need is great in your area, for you to lead the people forward like Moses leading the people out of Egypt. Starting with the leaders you will be standing before.

Perhaps I'll be banished to a castle in Germany to write a book! But I shall not turn away from Messianic Judaism, as Luther turned against the Jews. In fact, it is having the exact reverse effect on me! It does wear you down, though, and confidence is slowly sapped away, after all this time in a grinding mill. But G_d is supreme!

 

[visionary]

Talk to them about opening up a branch outreach for the Jews. Maybe it is time for expansion and you are the man to do it. I know this is a re-direct from their plans. It just might be the ticket to opening up the door to a new ministry that you would love.

 

[Heber Book List]

Talk to them about opening up a branch outreach for the Jews. Maybe it is time for expansion and you are the man to do it. I know this is a re-direct from their plans. It just might be the ticket to opening up the door to a new ministry that you would love.

Haha! I think it is institutionally anti-Israel & pro-'Palestinian', and many individual members are anti-semitic.

I do, however, have a rapidly growing appreciation of why disgruntled churchgoers turn to MJ.

 

[pat34lee]

I do not think the G_d of all truth uses downright lies to move someone on, and neither does he use deceit to move people around. I do, however, know someone who uses these things to gain his own way and so to wreck G_d's work; he and I have clashed many times!!

God can and will use whatever it takes to do
what needs to be done. He had Joseph sent
into slavery and prison in order that he be in
just the right spot when his time came.

 

[Heber Book List]

God can and will use whatever it takes to do
what needs to be done. He had Joseph sent
into slavery and prison in order that he be in
just the right spot when his time came.

Not quite the same situation. Exodus 22:28 rules against grumbling against your leader - in Acts 23:1ff it is shown that the leader there was the High Priest, and Paul quickly apologised after ranting against him, because the Law forbade it. Those who grumbled against their leader in Scripture were usually punished by G_d, some quite severely. Hebrew 13:17 requires that local congregations respect their leaders and make their lives a joy. In other words, if you are not happy with your leader, and you are in the minority on this, then you should simply leave that congregation and move on without trashing someones ministry, either before you go, or in your new congregation; I never accept new members who moan about their past Church until, and unless, they sort themselves out with their last Church, and leave without any bitterness against their previous leader - I don't want to inherit that persons problems, in previous places, into my congregation. Poison in a glass of the best wine, is still poison!

However, if the congregation wished me to leave, which the majority do not, there is a simple mechanism to achieve it that does not need lies, deceit or the mis-application of procedures by the powers that be, but it would need a 75% vote against my ministry to do it - because a minimum 75% majority was used to call me - it was actually a unanimous call, as it happens.

 

[visionary]

Not quite the same situation. Exodus 22:28 rules against grumbling against your leader - in Acts 23:1ff it is shown that the leader there was the High Priest, and Paul quickly apologised after ranting against him, because the Law forbade it. Those who grumbled against their leader in Scripture were usually punished by G_d, some quite severely. Hebrew 13:17 requires that local congregations respect their leaders and make their lives a joy. In other words, if you are not happy with your leader, and you are in the minority on this, then you should simply leave that congregation and move on without trashing someones ministry, either before you go, or in your new congregation; I never accept new members who moan about their past Church until, and unless, they sort themselves out with their last Church, and leave without any bitterness against their previous leader - I don't want to inherit that persons problems, in previous places, into my congregation. Poison in a glass of the best wine, is still poison!

However, if the congregation wished me to leave, which the majority do not, there is a simple mechanism to achieve it that does not need lies, deceit or the mis-application of procedures by the powers that be, but it would need a 75% vote against my ministry to do it - because a minimum 75% majority was used to call me - it was actually a unanimous call, as it happens.

Then it could even be someone outside your congregation, a fictitious person, one disgruntled individual, anyone on the leadership board who has an agenda, and the list goes on. I would think that it would take more than one phone call to bring out the inquisition team. Formal complaints usually have to be in writing, notarized, verified etc before action is taken. What was this, a screen shot of you acting inappropriate? Video of your sermon?

You know that after twenty-five years of faithful service there must be some coo-toes...25 years of blameless service...

Well, still praying. You must have done something right, to stir up the devil. May righteousness win. May you be exonerated. May the Lord be honored. May you and the leaders be blessed in the outcome.

 

[Heber Book List]

Then it could even be someone outside your congregation, a fictitious person, one disgruntled individual, anyone on the leadership board who has an agenda, and the list goes on. I would think that it would take more than one phone call to bring out the inquisition team. Formal complaints usually have to be in writing, notarized, verified etc before action is taken. What was this, a screen shot of you acting inappropriate? Video of your sermon?

You know that after twenty-five years of faithful service there must be some coo-toes...25 years of blameless service...

Well, still praying. You must have done something right, to stir up the devil. May righteousness win. May you be exonerated. May the Lord be honored. May you and the leaders be blessed in the outcome.

It is a few disgruntled members of the congregation to whom I will not bow down and do that they want - give them the power they crave. Being a Church Officer is a call of G_d, not something to be demanded of the Pastor! Whatever they do I will not bow down before them, whether it is loss of work and home, or not. I bow before only One.