I saw the movie 'Doubt'

[BAFRIEND]

If this is a, "pro liberals in the Church" movie, that would not want to make me see it any more then if it was about a, "preist molesting children in the Church" movie.

I see nothing wonderful about a movie that is condemning a nun who is only trying to protect children and keep librals from ruining the Church.

Who is being condemed is a matter of speculation- there is never any evidence of an assault occuring- the nun runs with her convictions and becomes a vigilante- being a bully and using blackmail to get her way.

 

[benedictaoo]

Who is being condemed is a matter of speculation- there is never any evidence of an assault occuring- the nun runs with her convictions and becomes a vigilante- being a bully and using blackmail to get her way.

So either way, it's making one or the other look bad?

Doesn't sound like it's for me.

If they aren't making preist look like slime, they are making nuns look insane.

 

[Fantine]

Growing up Catholic in metropolitan NY in the 1960's, I could match a real life sister and priest to each of those characters. I didn't think they were plastic at all.

Doubt is fictional. It's not a docudrama. Playwright Shanley grew up in that neighborhood and attended Catholic school in the Bronx in the 1960's, but the characters are not real. Whether the priest was guilty of abuse or not was deliberately left up in the air.

The priest's real "offense", in Streep's eyes, was embracing Vatican II. She opposed change.

The young black boy who started her school represented change to her, too--racial diversity in a previously all-white school (and change in a neighborhood that would probably be 100% black within the next decade.)

God was challenging Streep to look at things in a different way. She failed the challenge. But by the end of the movie she was almost to the point of accepting it. Hooray. End of story.

 

[Miss Shelby]

I didn't see Streep's character as a resentful feminist. I saw the conflict stemming more from the tension between his permissiveness and her strictness. However, when I see it again, I will keep an eye on issue of power between the sexes.

there was a bit of a power struggle between the two. I saw her as more compassionate though, esp. looking out for the older nun who would have been out on her can due to her poor eyesight. I don't know how anyone can watch the movie and not like her character. In any event, you are right, it did a good job in bringing up certain issues, such as having no evidence for accusations, which is probably why the scandals were allowed to escalate to the degree that they did. That and good ole fashion human denial.

 

[Miss Shelby]

So either way, it's making one or the other look bad?

Doesn't sound like it's for me.

If they aren't making preist look like slime, they are making nuns look insane.

you really ought to see it for yourself before you go making comments about it. It made the people look human.

 

[Miss Shelby]

Who is being condemed is a matter of speculation- there is never any evidence of an assault occuring- the nun runs with her convictions and becomes a vigilante- being a bully and using blackmail to get her way.

Which, as it turns out, would have been the right side to err on, IMO. Considering the degree to which the problem rose.

 

[Fantine]

What you see as compassion, Miss Shelby, was simply economics.

Nuns didn't get salaries. Lay teachers did.

How about some compassion for the students in the rough South Bronx who might not have been adequately taught because their teacher couldn't see to grade papers or correct their mistakes.

When I went to high school in an outer borough of NYC, I had several such teachers each semester.

We were shortchanged educationally, as tuition-paying students. The sisters were shortchanged emotionally and psychologically, being forced, day in and day out, to struggle through a job they were no longer capable of performing due to advanced age and declining faculties.

As I said, I grew up on the set of "Doubt." The characters just had different names.

 

[Miss Shelby]

As I said, I grew up on the set of "Doubt." The characters just had different names.

Well thank you for clarifying that. Now that I know your reality is a movie that you saw on tv it makes a lot of sense to me now.

 

[plmarquette]

why not go to www.visionvideo.com and for the cost of a bad movie...buy a couple of good ones....
the left hand of God with Humphrey Bogart
the cardinal with Tom Tyron
the scarlet and the black with Gregory Peck
70 x 7 forgiveness to the extreme...

not what the 1% of the bad apples do, according to Wolf Blitzer and Dan Rather...but what 90% of the good ones do, the ones you never hear about, because they are walking the walk in faith

 

[BAFRIEND]

Which, as it turns out, would have been the right side to err on, IMO. Considering the degree to which the problem rose.

Really ?

Then why did she not just call the police ?

The reason why is because she would have lost her manipulative control- which was her real motive.

 

[D'Ann]

I haven't seen the movie... interesting thread though. Hopefully, it will be on HBO soon and maybe I'll get to watch it then.

 

[Chrystal-J]

I didn't see Streep's character as a resentful feminist. I saw the conflict stemming more from the tension between his permissiveness and her strictness.

That's the way I saw it too. She just saw a 'recklessness' in him that she didn't like due to her rigidness. And I think she was hoping that what she suspected wasn't true. But, I think should would of been annoyed with him--innocent or not because of personality differences.
It was a well acted movie--worth seeing.

 

[Fantine]

Well thank you for clarifying that. Now that I know your reality is a movie that you saw on tv it makes a lot of sense to me now.

You've gotten it backwards. The scenes and characters were so realistic that going to the movie was like taking a step back into my childhood.

The only thing missing was the clickers. Click! "Stand." Click! "Kneel." Click! "Stand again."

I had forgotten how everyone would stand up when the principal came into the room.

It was letter-perfect (they had a priest advising the producers and directors so that the movie would be theologically and historically accurate.)

I know it must be hard for new Catholics who look at pre-Vatican II days as having been so wonderful to see the reality that those of us who were born Catholic lived through. Sometimes the truth hurts, and the blast from the past is an icy one.

 

[benedictaoo]

thanks Michie.

 

[Miss Shelby]

I know it must be hard for new Catholics who look at pre-Vatican II days as having been so wonderful to see the reality that those of us who were born Catholic lived through. Sometimes the truth hurts, and the blast from the past is an icy one.

I thought that nun was great. I wish I woulda had one just like her growin' up. Alls we had were steak-woofing librul priests who would ring a little bell after they finished each course of their meals. Then Inez (their housekeeper) and I would have to run into the huge dining room and clear the table and fetch the next course for them. ( i worked in the rectory growing up and Inez and I were not allowed to eat at the same table as the carnivores). I could sure advise someone in Hollywood about the way it was in those long ago days of yore, those inital days post Vat II when seminaries were birthing liberal priests into the community faster than a coke machine shooting out soda in Death Valley. Talk about a reality shock.

 

[Fish and Bread]

I plan on watching this once it's available as a rental on i-tunes. Right now it's only available to buy, which is a bit pricey, even though I have a gift certificate. Sounds like a good film, though.

I look forward to watching it -- though not nearly as much as I'm looking forward to the new Star Trek movie.

 

[benedictaoo]

I plan on watching this once it's available as a rental on i-tunes. Right now it's only available to buy, which is a bit pricey, even though I have a gift certificate. Sounds like a good film, though.

I look forward to watching it -- though not nearly as much as I'm looking forward to the new Star Trek movie.

You mean Obama's not giving free DVD rental hand outs yet? Maybe we need a, I can't afford to rent DVD's, bail out bill. I mean watching the latest DVD should be a right, not a privilege.

J/K.. i know how you peeps with donkey icons have good sense of humours about that Obama dude and all those bills.

 

[Protinus]

This thread might be a spoiler if you have not seen it. It was good. Meryl Streep should have been nominated and won oscars, as much as I deplore the hollywood accolades and awards.I think, that w/out coming right out and saying it, it illustrated that when 'liberalism' and ordaining homosexuals into the priesthood started in the early 60's, it was the beginning of the end for the Church.Soo... if you have not seen it because you think it's anti catholic, you might want to reconsider. I think the movie did a good job of bringing up questions that would make very good discussion as to how exactly people in the Church have erred, whether it be clergy or parents.

you actually think that homosexuals started to be ordained in the 60's?

And I thought the movie was about repentance....but you may have forgotten this glaring theme on account it may have "spoiled it" for movie goers.

 

[Michie]

Moving Eyes

Find them here- http://bestsmileys.com/pageindex.htm

 

[Miss Shelby]

you actually think that homosexuals started to be ordained in the 60's?

no, that's just when the homosexuals admitted they were homosexuals.

And I thought the movie was about repentance....but you may have forgotten this glaring theme on account it may have "spoiled it" for movie goers.

The movie, to spoil it more for you, was to illustrate the kind of dynamics which were present that allowed the scandal to escalate.

You do realize we had a priestly sex scandal in the Church, right? And that priests were not held accountable and were moved around from parish to parish? I am really sorry Prot, that the movie used a liberal priest to illustrate the point, but I don't doubt that if the movie had used an old school priest instead, you wouldn't be so hot on the idea of forgiveness and repentance.

Have a great day, always nice when you stop by!