I need some advice on the feasts and holy days

[gadar perets]

Great verse for that, thanks. My parents are starting to tell me I'm falling for lies, I'm a Christian not a Jew, God changed the laws for us, and so on. I need to be able to defend my case tomorrow, as they are sending me to another preacher to explain how wrong they think I am. I got some verses showing there is one law for everyone (Exodus 12:49, Leviticus 24:22, Numbers 15:15-16, Deuteronomy 31:12), prophesies about the law going to the world in the last days (Isaiah 2:2-3, Micah 4:2-3), prophesies about the world keeping holy days (Isaiah 66:23, Zechariah 14:16), the example of Jesus and the Apostles (Luke 4:16, Acts 17:2), and an exhortation to follow Jesus and Paul (1 John 2:6, 1 Corinthians 11:1). I think my trump card with be 2 Timothy 3:16, how can all scripture be profitable for instruction if most of it has be abolished?

Don't forget Romans 3:31;

Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.​

And 1 John 5:2-3;

By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep His commandments.
For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments: and His commandments are not grievous.
​

I'll be praying for you and the other preacher, that your witness will be fruitful and his eyes will be opened. Just make sure you share with him in the right spirit; with humility and love.

 

[gadar perets]

I think my trump card with be 2 Timothy 3:16, how can all scripture be profitable for instruction if most of it has be abolished?

His trump card will probably be circumcision. Paul was not against circumcision, but against the wrong use of it (as a means to be saved or justified).

 

[pat34lee]

Great verse for that, thanks. My parents are starting to tell me I'm falling for lies, I'm a Christian not a Jew, God changed the laws for us, and so on. I need to be able to defend my case tomorrow, as they are sending me to another preacher to explain how wrong they think I am. I got some verses showing there is one law for everyone (Exodus 12:49, Leviticus 24:22, Numbers 15:15-16, Deuteronomy 31:12), prophesies about the law going to the world in the last days (Isaiah 2:2-3, Micah 4:2-3), prophesies about the world keeping holy days (Isaiah 66:23, Zechariah 14:16), the example of Jesus and the Apostles (Luke 4:16, Acts 17:2), and an exhortation to follow Jesus and Paul (1 John 2:6, 1 Corinthians 11:1). I think my trump card with be 2 Timothy 3:16, how can all scripture be profitable for instruction if most of it has be abolished?

Here is something to ask them.

Since God is not the author of confusion, where does he
specifically state that the Sabbath is no more? If he gave
the Sabbath as a law, he must remove it the same way. He
spent five books giving the law and the rest of the OT still
explaining it. He can't just say now it no longer applies.

Isaiah 56:1-8 is all about gentiles in the end times.
Notice the three things he requires of them.

1 Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.
2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.
3 Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.
4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.
6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;
7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.
8 The Lord GOD which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him.

 

[Travis93]

It was all fruitless. He just kept saying "Jesus fulfilled the law", every prophesy I used was met with "that only applied under the old covenant". Every instance I showed in Acts of people keeping sabbath and the feasts was met with "they were just doing that to witness to the Jews", and he said Acts 20:7 proves we should keep Sunday. Then he showed me all the seemingly anti-law verses such as Ephesians 2:15, Colossians 2:14, most of Galatians, and so on. Is it even worth defending Paul or should I just tell people he's a false prophet? I know 2 Peter 3:16 warns he says things hard to be understood, but I doubt Christianity would have taken such a lawless stance had his letters not been written. None of the other apostles are ever quoted for that purpose.

 

[gadar perets]

It was all fruitless. He just kept saying "Jesus fulfilled the law", every prophesy I used was met with "that only applied under the old covenant". Every instance I showed in Acts of people keeping sabbath and the feasts was met with "they were just doing that to witness to the Jews", and he said Acts 20:7 proves we should keep Sunday. Then he showed me all the seemingly anti-law verses such as Ephesians 2:15, Colossians 2:14, most of Galatians, and so on. Is it even worth defending Paul or should I just tell people he's a false prophet? I know 2 Peter 3:16 warns he says things hard to be understood, but I doubt Christianity would have taken such a lawless stance had his letters not been written. None of the other apostles are ever quoted for that purpose.

It may have been fruitless as far as him changing his mind about the law at this time, but you planted seeds that need time to germinate. They will hopefully bear fruit in the future. I know of a man that took seven years before he finally saw the light of the Sabbath.

In the meantime, you need to study the issues for yourself so you have an answer next time you have the opportunity to share in that way. Paul is not a false prophet, but the greatest believer that ever lived besides Yeshua. You just need to understand him yourself before you can expect others to.

Here is a short study on some of the passages that pastor brought up. Let me know if you have questions. I have several other studies on the Law if you are interested.

Don't get discouraged Travis. Use that meeting as a learning experience and ask the Almighty to show you the truth.

 

[pat34lee]

It was all fruitless. He just kept saying "Jesus fulfilled the law", every prophesy I used was met with "that only applied under the old covenant". Every instance I showed in Acts of people keeping sabbath and the feasts was met with "they were just doing that to witness to the Jews", and he said Acts 20:7 proves we should keep Sunday. Then he showed me all the seemingly anti-law verses such as Ephesians 2:15, Colossians 2:14, most of Galatians, and so on. Is it even worth defending Paul or should I just tell people he's a false prophet? I know 2 Peter 3:16 warns he says things hard to be understood, but I doubt Christianity would have taken such a lawless stance had his letters not been written. None of the other apostles are ever quoted for that purpose.

Paul is not the problem. People who choose not
to understand never will, unless God opens their
eyes to the truth.

 

[Travis93]

I can't stop running into appeals to the majority. "All those preaches can't be wrong", "All those Christians can't be wrong", "Why are you the only one who thinks like this?". Not a single person anywhere near where I live accepts the Torah as being for us today, so every time I try to show them they act like I've been deceived by a cult. They say I just started reading the Bible myself so it's wrong of me to try and say I know better than preachers. How do I answer people when they say "So is everyone going to Hell then since no one follows the law?"

 

[gadar perets]

I can't stop running into appeals to the majority. "All those preaches can't be wrong", "All those Christians can't be wrong", "Why are you the only one who thinks like this?". Not a single person anywhere near where I live accepts the Torah as being for us today, so every time I try to show them they act like I've been deceived by a cult. They say I just started reading the Bible myself so it's wrong of me to try and say I know better than preachers.

Travis, you are not the only one who keeps Torah. Almost the entire Messianic community endeavors to keep it. The fact that no one around you keeps Torah just goes to show that you have your work cut out for you. Teach them with patience and love. Do not get upset with them. Just continue feeding them Scripture, planting seeds of truth, and pray that YHWH will open their eyes. And keep in mind that the adversary will do all he can to get you to abandon obeying YHWH's commandments and resume a lifestyle of sin. (Sin is the transgression of the Law - 1 John 3:4). When Yeshua said, "Go and sin no more," he was saying, "Go and don't break the Law anymore."

How do I answer people when they say "So is everyone going to Hell then since no one follows the law?"

We are saved by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8), but we will be rewarded based on our works (Matthew 16:27).

When people ask you such questions, ask them questions in return as Yeshua did.

Question to you) "So is everyone going to Hell then since no one follows the law?"
Question from you) "I'm not the final judge of such matters, but answer me this; What did Yeshua mean when he said, "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.' (Matthew 7:21-23 NASB)

Or (Question from you) "If we are not to obey the Law, then what did Paul mean when he said, "Do we make void the Law through faith? God forbid. Yea, we establish the Law." (Romans 3:31 KJV)

Or (Question from you) If we are not to obey the Law, then what did Yeshua mean when he said, "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
(Matthew 5:17-19 KJV)

You need to give them the Word and allow it to do its work in their hearts through the power of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Travis93]

What does Acts 21:25 mean? I think Acts 21:17-26 is a great passage for proving the law is still good since the believing Jews were zealous for it, and James didn't rebuke them for it, but rather told Paul to prove he still did as well. But then verse 25 says that gentiles should observe no such thing. It's easy in Acts 15:19-21 for me to conclude that was just a starting list and that gentiles should be learning Moses in synagogues every sabbath, but here it seems like the list is directly contrasted with keeping the law.

 

[visionary]

What does Acts 21:25 mean? I think Acts 21:17-26 is a great passage for proving the law is still good since the believing Jews were zealous for it, and James didn't rebuke them for it, but rather told Paul to prove he still did as well. But then verse 25 says that gentiles should observe no such thing. It's easy in Acts 15:19-21 for me to conclude that was just a starting list and that gentiles should be learning Moses in synagogues every sabbath, but here it seems like the list is directly contrasted with keeping the law.

You know what amazes me, that while that verse is used to eat unclean food, they, at the time, do none of the following...

- abstain from pollutions of idols
- from fornication
- from things strangled
- from blood.
- being read in the synagogues every sabbath day

Much less understand what those requirements entail.

 

[gadar perets]

What does Acts 21:25 mean? I think Acts 21:17-26 is a great passage for proving the law is still good since the believing Jews were zealous for it, and James didn't rebuke them for it, but rather told Paul to prove he still did as well. But then verse 25 says that gentiles should observe no such thing. It's easy in Acts 15:19-21 for me to conclude that was just a starting list and that gentiles should be learning Moses in synagogues every sabbath, but here it seems like the list is directly contrasted with keeping the law.

Check out the various translations found at this link and you will see most of them don't include the words, "that they observe no such thing, save only".

 

[Travis93]

How do sabbath/Jubilee years work today? I'm not a farmer, so I won't be pruning the land, reaping a harvest, gathering grapes, and so on. Is it also forbidden to benefit from others doing these things, like how we can't buy and sell on the weekly sabbath (Nehemiah 13:15-22)? It was brought to my attention in another thread that I would be breaking it by buying these things during those years, is that true? Same goes for other farming related commands, like not eating of trees for a certain number of years (Leviticus 19:23-24), divers seeds (Deuteronomy 22:9), and so on. I don't know anything about the fruit I buy in grocery stores, but I doubt they are following all these laws, especially the sabbath years.

 

[visionary]

• How do sabbath/Jubilee years work today? I'm not a farmer, so I won't be pruning the land, reaping a harvest, gathering grapes, and so on. Is it also forbidden to benefit from others doing these things, like how we can't buy and sell on the weekly sabbath (Nehemiah 13:15-22)? It was brought to my attention in another thread that I would be breaking it by buying these things during those years, is that true? Same goes for other farming related commands, like not eating of trees for a certain number of years (Leviticus 19:23-24), divers seeds (Deuteronomy 22:9), and so on. I don't know anything about the fruit I buy in grocery stores, but I doubt they are following all these laws, especially the sabbath years.

  Jubilee is about returning the land to its original owner. It is about resting. It is about setting the captives free. It is about removing debt, forgiveness in business dealing, and restitution. Sounds like the things we can expect during the millenium.

I have not heard about no buying during the Jubilee.

 

[Travis93]

Are new moons also days where work is forbidden? I see Paul lumped them in with holy days and sabbaths in Colossians 3:16, but I don't see anything about new moons being no work days in the law besides the day of trumpets implicitly, since it happens the first day of the seventh month.

 

[gadar perets]

Are new moons also days where work is forbidden? I see Paul lumped them in with holy days and sabbaths in Colossians 3:16, but I don't see anything about new moons being no work days in the law besides the day of trumpets implicitly, since it happens the first day of the seventh month.

Not according to Torah.

 

[visionary]

Are new moons also days where work is forbidden? I see Paul lumped them in with holy days and sabbaths in Colossians 3:16, but I don't see anything about new moons being no work days in the law besides the day of trumpets implicitly, since it happens the first day of the seventh month.

To find the all the Sabbaths of the Lord, go to Lev 23. New moon is not mentioned in Lev 23. Sabbath means rest and all that it implies in refraining from the daily activities and dedicate it to sacred matter and only those mentioned in Lev 23 are considered His Holy Times. New moon on the other hand is part of the counting of time, it is the cycle by which God's calendar is set for the start of months. Here is an outline that you can study on the subject of Holy Days, Sabbaths, and New Moon.
http://www.jewfaq.org/holiday0.htm

 

[visionary]

This article makes an attempt at explaining the Holy Days for those who have not been raised in Judaism. http://www.jewfaq.org/holidayg.htm

 

[gadar perets]

This article makes an attempt at explaining the Holy Days for those who have not been raised in Judaism. http://www.jewfaq.org/holidayg.htm

Do you know of a similar article from a Messianic perspective?

 

[visionary]

Do you know of a similar article from a Messianic perspective?

http://www.lightofmashiach.org/moedim.html
http://www.outreachisrael.net/products/books/helper-series/moedim.html
https://ahavahemunah.wordpress.com/
http://bethtikkun.com/category/audio/moedim/
http://theloveofgod.proboards.com/board/40/moedim
http://www.moedimcoop.com/
http://www.thepromiseofthefather.com/the-moedim--yahvehs-appointed-times.html
http://www.torahresource.com/EnglishArticles/Are Festivals for Today.pdf
http://mjrabbinate.teachable.com/courses/imj-098

 

[1John2:4]

I can't stop running into appeals to the majority. "All those preaches can't be wrong", "All those Christians can't be wrong", "Why are you the only one who thinks like this?". Not a single person anywhere near where I live accepts the Torah as being for us today, so every time I try to show them they act like I've been deceived by a cult. They say I just started reading the Bible myself so it's wrong of me to try and say I know better than preachers. How do I answer people when they say "So is everyone going to Hell then since no one follows the law?"

My heart goes out to you so much my friend, your story is near and dear to me. When I was called out and told my small group leader in the Baptist Church that I wanted to keep Torah he called me a legalist. He was extremely angry with me. The very next week he began a study of Galatians. Then he got with the JR and SR pastor of the church and had me removed. Just because I challenged his views with scripture. So my heart is heavy for you it's a lonely path. I will keep you in my prayers, Shabbat Shalom