Hyper-Grace ??????????

[The Unforgettable Fire]

The sinner's prayer is not in the Bible, but repentance and confessing your sins is.
Acts 3:19
Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out

The Jews had rejected Jesus as the Messiah. Peter tells them to repent (from their unbelief).

 

[murjahel]

"Murjahel" said a whole snot-load of stuff that never came close to actually answering this:

"Originally Posted by NorrinRadd

Where in Scripture does one even find this so-called "sinner's prayer"? Where are we told that in order to be saved, we have to "ask" for forgiveness?"

​

what the sinners' prayer is supposed to be, is repentance of the sins that doomed one, for 'all have sinned', and the 'wages of sin is death'...

the only escape is through Jesus, and to partake in His forgiveness paid for on the cross, we repent of those sins.

the prayer doing that has been called the sinners' prayer, and it may be worded differently by different folks, but the essence of it is repentance.

now universalists believe that all are saved even if they don't repent, but orthodox believers put repentance to Jesus 'alone' as the entrance time of salvation...

in the Nicene creed which all of us here believe...
it says...

I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins**. (Ephesians 4:5; Acts 2:38)
I look for the resurrection of the dead, (John 11:24; 1Corinthians 15:12-49; Hebrews 6:2; Revelation 20:5)
and the life of the world to come. (Mark 10:29-30)
AMEN. (Psalm 106:48)

That 'baptism' referred to in my former post was given by John, as I showed, following repentance... then the baptism symbolized the remission, washing away of sins... since we all agreed to the Nicene creed as our standard here, not to be attacked, I forgive you for your harsh words above... I know you must have misunderstood...

 

[The Unforgettable Fire]

what the sinners' prayer is supposed to be, is repentance of the sins that doomed one, for 'all have sinned', and the 'wages of sin is death'...

the only escape is through Jesus, and to partake in His forgiveness paid for on the cross, we repent of those sins.

the prayer doing that has been called the sinners' prayer, and it may be worded differently by different folks, but the essence of it is repentance.

now universalists believe that all are saved even if they don't repent, but orthodox believers put repentance to Jesus 'alone' as the entrance time of salvation...

in the Nicene creed which all of us here believe...
it says...

I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins**. (Ephesians 4:5; Acts 2:38)
I look for the resurrection of the dead, (John 11:24; 1Corinthians 15:12-49; Hebrews 6:2; Revelation 20:5)
and the life of the world to come. (Mark 10:29-30)
AMEN. (Psalm 106:48)

That 'baptism' referred to in my former post was given by John, as I showed, following repentance... then the baptism symbolized the remission, washing away of sins... since we all agreed to the Nicene creed as our standard here, not to be attacked, I forgive you for your harsh words above... I know you must have misunderstood...

John's baptism was an old covenant repentance baptism. The apostles New covenant baptism was a baptism of belief, an outward expression of an inward faith.

 

[murjahel]

John's baptism was an old covenant repentance baptism. The apostles New covenant baptism was a baptism of belief, an outward expression of an inward faith.

day of Pentecost... after John, beginning of church age...

Peter preacheActs 2:38 (KJV)
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.



remission = G863 afesis = forgiveness, pardon, remission

repentance is the basis for getting the type of baptism... the baptism shows what happened when we repented, we were putting the old man to death, resurrected in Jesus a new creation, forgiveness of sins then is ours by that repentance...

 

[Messy]

Repentance of sins:

2 Corinthians 12:21

21 lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and I shall mourn for many who have sinned before and have not repented of the uncleanness, fornication, and lewdness which they have practiced.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Our salvation is more secure than the condemnation of the lost.
The lost are helplessly lost within themselves. They are under "hyper-condemnation."
If the lost are hyper-lost and we are more saved than they are lost, then we must be hyper-hyper saved by hyper-hyper grace!
Jesus is hyper lord and hyper savior!
None better!

 

[Messy]

/

 

[The Unforgettable Fire]

day of Pentecost... after John, beginning of church age...

Peter preacheActs 2:38 (KJV)
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

remission = G863 afesis = forgiveness, pardon, remission

repentance is the basis for getting the type of baptism... the baptism shows what happened when we repented, we were putting the old man to death, resurrected in Jesus a new creation, forgiveness of sins then is ours by that repentance...

Again. This is repentance from unbelief to get salvation, not repentance from sin (which would be works) to get salvation.

 

[The Unforgettable Fire]

Repentance of sins:

2 Corinthians 12:21

21 lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and I shall mourn for many who have sinned before and have not repented of the uncleanness, fornication, and lewdness which they have practiced.

Paul never treated the Cornithian church as unsaved. Read the whole passage.

9 Have you been thinking all along that we have been defending ourselves to you? We have been speaking in the sight of God as those in Christ; and everything we do, dear friends, is for your strengthening. 20 For I am afraid that when I come I may not find you as I want you to be, and you may not find me as you want me to be. I fear that there may be discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, slander, gossip, arrogance and disorder. 21 I am afraid that when I come again my God will humble me before you, and I will be grieved over many who have sinned earlier and have not repented of the impurity, sexual sin and debauchery in which they have indulged.


No where in his letters does he indicate that salvation is contingent on repentance. In fact he has a spill in first Cornithians saying exactly the opposite.




12 "I have the right to do anything," you say--but not everything is beneficial. "I have the right to do anything"--but I will not be mastered by anything. 13 You say, "Food for the stomach and the stomach for food, and God will destroy them both." The body, however, is not meant for sexual immorality but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. 14 By his power God raised the Lord from the dead, and he will raise us also. 15[bless and do not curse]Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself? Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never! 16 Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, "The two will become one flesh." 17 But whoever is united with the Lord is one with him in spirit.[c]

18 Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body. 19 Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20 you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies. - 1st Corinthians 6:12-20

 

[Frogster]

day of Pentecost... after John, beginning of church age...

Peter preacheActs 2:38 (KJV)
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.



remission = G863 afesis = forgiveness, pardon, remission

repentance is the basis for getting the type of baptism... the baptism shows what happened when we repented, we were putting the old man to death, resurrected in Jesus a new creation, forgiveness of sins then is ours by that repentance...

are you saying that if they don't get baptized, no remission?

 

[The Unforgettable Fire]

Out salvation is more secure than the condemnation of the lost.
The lost are helplessly lost within themselves. They are under "hyper-condemnation."
If the lost are hyper-lost and we are more saved than they are lost, then we must be hyper-hyper saved by hyper-hyper grace!
Jesus is hyper lord and hyper savior!
None better!

More secure?

 

[Frogster]

Paul never treated the Cornithian church as unsaved. Read the whole passage.

9[bless and do not curse]Have you been thinking all along that we have been defending ourselves to you? We have been speaking in the sight of God as those in Christ; and everything we do, dear friends, is for your strengthening. 20[bless and do not curse]For I am afraid that when I come I may not find you as I want you to be, and you may not find me as you want me to be. I fear that there may be discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, slander, gossip, arrogance and disorder. 21[bless and do not curse]I am afraid that when I come again my God will humble me before you, and I will be grieved over many who have sinned earlier and have not repented of the impurity, sexual sin and debauchery in which they have indulged.


No where in his letters does he indicate that salvation is contingent on repentance. In fact he has a spill in first Cornithians saying exactly the opposite.




12[bless and do not curse]"I have the right to do anything," you say--but not everything is beneficial. "I have the right to do anything"--but I will not be mastered by anything. 13[bless and do not curse]You say, "Food for the stomach and the stomach for food, and God will destroy them both." The body, however, is not meant for sexual immorality but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. 14[bless and do not curse]By his power God raised the Lord from the dead, and he will raise us also. 15[bless and do not curse]Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself? Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never! 16[bless and do not curse]Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, "The two will become one flesh." 17[bless and do not curse]But whoever is united with the Lord is one with him in spirit.[c]

18[bless and do not curse]Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body. 19[bless and do not curse]Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20[bless and do not curse]you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies. - 1st Corinthians 6:12-20

well...in chapter 13, he said to test to see if they were in the faith, saying he was still, making a clear distinction.


13:5 Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test!


he also said to be reconciled, not something said to saved people. Especially with pauline usage of the reconciled word.

5:20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.

 

[Frogster]

John's baptism was an old covenant repentance baptism. The apostles New covenant baptism was a baptism of belief, an outward expression of an inward faith.

well...hmmm....iffy. old cov baptism?

It was the institution of the new cov gospel, as per peter.



Acts 10:36 As for the word that he sent to Israel, preaching good news of peace through Jesus Christ (he is Lord of all), 37 you yourselves know what happened throughout all Judea, beginning from Galilee after the baptism that John proclaimed:

 

[murjahel]

are you saying that if they don't get baptized, no remission?

no, I am saying that if there is no repentance there is no remission, the baptism is a symbolic act depicting in testimony to the world what happens at salvation... it is a testimony, not a redeeming act...

repentance is often misunderstood... by connotation we associate repentance as a work that earns salvation.... God has the word 'metanoia' used, which means a 'change of mind' and in this case a change of mind toward sin...

those who say you don't need to repent to be saved are therefore saying you can still love sin, choose to do sin, still want sin in your life and are saved anyhow despite that...

repentance happens in the heart, and can be expressed by the lips, but the real idea is a change of mind toward sin, it is now seen as bad, as evil, as something we do not want to do... that change of heart is not a 'work' that earns salvation it is a mental acceptance of seeing sin the way God sees it...

the 'remission' or forgiveness of sins, follows the repentance, and the spiritual process done on our hearts where in we are buried with Christ, and now risen in new life with Him... (baptism illustrates that event, but is not that event)....

if one does not have a change of mind toward sin, if they still love sin, want sin, condone sin, choose sin, as they did before, they are not saved... for if they were, their minds would have changed ...

this board has a stand against universalism, and to teach that salvation is offered and given to all, no repentance needed, nothing on our part to change, then all would be saved... that is contrary to this forum, and universalists are not allowed to post here... so... what is it that separates us from universalists? the idea of a change of mind toward sin that gives then 'remission of sins', forgiveness of sins...

 

[Frogster]

no, I am saying that if there is no repentance there is no remission, the baptism is a symbolic act depicting in testimony to the world what happens at salvation... it is a testimony, not a redeeming act...

repentance is often misunderstood... by connotation we associate repentance as a work that earns salvation.... God has the word 'metanoia' used, which means a 'change of mind' and in this case a change of mind toward sin...

those who say you don't need to repent to be saved are therefore saying you can still love sin, choose to do sin, still want sin in your life and are saved anyhow despite that...

repentance happens in the heart, and can be expressed by the lips, but the real idea is a change of mind toward sin, it is now seen as bad, as evil, as something we do not want to do... that change of heart is not a 'work' that earns salvation it is a mental acceptance of seeing sin the way God sees it...

the 'remission' or forgiveness of sins, follows the repentance, and the spiritual process done on our hearts where in we are buried with Christ, and now risen in new life with Him... (baptism illustrates that event, but is not that event)....

if one does not have a change of mind toward sin, if they still love sin, want sin, condone sin, choose sin, as they did before, they are not saved... for if they were, their minds would have changed ...

this board has a stand against universalism, and to teach that salvation is offered and given to all, no repentance needed, nothing on our part to change, then all would be saved... that is contrary to this forum, and universalists are not allowed to post here... so... what is it that separates us from universalists? the idea of a change of mind toward sin that gives then 'remission of sins', forgiveness of sins...

hi, i am not a universalist, just curious if you thought it a needed thing for remission.

 

[The Unforgettable Fire]

well...in chapter 13, he said to test to see if they were in the faith, saying he was still, making a clear distinction.


13:5 Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test!


he also said to be reconciled, not something said to saved people. Especially with pauline usage of the reconciled word.

5:20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.

I don't see your point. Where are you disagreeing?

 

[Frogster]

I don't see your point. Where are you disagreeing?

where you said this in post 49.

Paul never treated the Cornithian church as unsaved. Read the whole passage.

 

[Frogster]

i corrected it, i meant post 49.

 

[The Unforgettable Fire]

well...hmmm....iffy. old cov baptism?

It was the institution of the new cov gospel, as per peter.



Acts 10:36 As for the word that he sent to Israel, preaching good news of peace through Jesus Christ (he is Lord of all), 37 you yourselves know what happened throughout all Judea, beginning from Galilee after the baptism that John proclaimed:

Baptism was a common practice. John the Baptist used it in an old covenant context. After the new covenant though, it became used in that context. One is repentance from sin, the other is repentance from unbelief.

Baptism was cultural. For example, in places like Vietnam, non-Christian family members really don't care if you profess faith in Christ, but if you go and get baptized they will disown you.

It is the cultural significance, not some mystical transubstantiation fairy dust that gets sprinkled on you by angels when you go in the water and come back out. :o

 

[murjahel]

hi, i am not a universalist, just curious if you thought it a needed thing for remission.

no, I did not think you were... I was actually answering two posts at the same time, with answers to both ideas in the same one... obviously, you nor I are universalists... LOL I am sure of that much...