Humans are nothing special?

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chapmic

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In the event that the Pearly Gates are real and I actually do meet God face to face, is that what He's going to be hung up on?



Doubt what?



Does that mean we must abandon faith to believe the Bible is the word of God? And why is it that creationists always seem to toss around "faith" like an insult?

My phrase was to show how you have to faith in evolution because the fact is there are no concrete facts to prove what happened a "million years ago or a billion years ago." Sure you can find a fossil and concluded that this animal lived in the past but even the process of figuring out the date is not completely accurate.
 
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JacksBratt

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I believe that Satan believes we so special to God that he is spending millenia trying to decieve as many as he can from following Christ.

I believe God believes we are special. So special that He took human form, as a baby, lived a life of a human and then died the most torturous death as an innocent man, in order to provide us with a way to avoid the punishment of eternal damnation that we all deserve.
 
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S

Sectio Aurea

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I believe that Satan believes we so special to God that he is spending millenia trying to decieve as many as he can from following Christ.

I believe God believes we are special. So special that He took human form, as a baby, lived a life of a human and then died the most torturous death as an innocent man, in order to provide us with a way to avoid the punishment of eternal damnation that we all deserve.

You're sick! I wouldn't wish such "punishment" on my own worst enemies!
 
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lasthero

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It's long but he sites the textbook throughout the seminar,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8DDIe_2cHM

Really? Which text book?

Kent Hovind is a liar. Or an idiot. Or both. From the Wiki:


An age of 4.55 ± 0.07 billion years, very close to today's accepted age, was determined by C.C. Patterson using uranium-lead isotope dating (specifically lead-lead dating) on several meteorites including the Canyon Diablo meteorite and published in 1956.[26]

Age of the Earth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That was taken almost sixy years ago, and guess what? The age of the earth is, today, believed to be 4.54 billion years old. It's changed a hundreth. That's it.
 
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chapmic

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Thus I'm free to accept the science that we are apes and that we share common ancestry with other species. I believe in God; my acceptance of evolutionary science doesn't change that.



Nope, I'm not doubting God at all.



A chimpanzee didn't magically give birth to a human one day. The chimpanzee is simply our closest evolutionary relative.



You can interpret the Bible as literally as you want. But the fact remains that there is overwhelming evidence for evolution.

So as long as people give you "evidence" of topics that disagree with the bible you will readily believe them? You really don't think that is doubting God?
 
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chapmic

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Really? Which text book?

Kent Hovind is a liar. Or an idiot. Or both. From the Wiki:




Age of the Earth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That was taken almost sixy years ago, and guess what? The age of the earth is, today, believed to be 4.54 billion years old. It's changed a hundreth. That's it.

This was quoted in that same link

Holmes published The Age of the Earth, an Introduction to Geological Ideas in 1927 in which he presented a range of 1.6 to 3.0 billion years.

Its all Guesstimation,
 
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lasthero

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This was quoted in that same link

Holmes published The Age of the Earth, an Introduction to Geological Ideas in 1927 in which he presented a range of 1.6 to 3.0 billion years.

Its all Guesstimation,

Yes. In 1927. You do realize that technology has increased a little bit since then, right?

Your (or Hovind's) claim that the age has changed every decade is bunk. It's changed only a hundreth in the last sixty years.
 
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chapmic

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I'm having a hard time believing the "sincerely" part has any meaning here.

Let's try this again:

1: Can we agree that there are important truths that are not in the Bible?

2: Do evolutionists go to hell?


1. What do you consider important? The Bible talks about human nature and the thing that a really love about the Bible is it talks about relationships. It helped me determine what is a proper loving relationship and how to cultivate our relationships with God and with people.

2. I don't determine who goes to hell and I don't speculate who goes to hell because that is up to God. I'm in this forum to tell the truth about evolution and to promote biblical teaching.
 
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chapmic

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This was quoted in that same link

Holmes published The Age of the Earth, an Introduction to Geological Ideas in 1927 in which he presented a range of 1.6 to 3.0 billion years.

Its all Guesstimation,

History repeats itself, every generation thinks they have the right answer until a new technology disproves it. Here's another outline on how it kept changing

How old is Earth? (scientific methods)


1.In 1897, Lord Kelvin assumed that the Earth was originally molten and calculated a date based on cooling through conduction and radiation. The age of Earth was calculated to be about 24-40 million years based on the laws of thermodynamics.
Unknown at the time was that the Earth has an internal heat source (radioactive decay)



2. In 1899, John Joly (Irish) calculated the rate of delivery of salt to the ocean. River water has only a small concentration of salts. Rivers flow to the sea, therefore, evaporative concentration of salts can be calculated.
By this method, the age of oceans will equal the total salt in oceans (in grams) divided by rate of salt added (grams per year)

Age of Earth was calculated to be 90-100 million years.

Problems: no way to account for recycled salt, salt incorporated into clay minerals, salt deposits.



3. In 1860, the thickness of total sedimentary record is divided by average sedimentation rates (in mm/yr) and calculated to be about 3 million years old. In 1910, the same measurement yields about 1.6 billion years old.
Early measurements of maximum thickness of sediment ranged from 25,000 m to 112,000 m. With more recent mapping, thickness of fossiliferous rocks is at least 150,000 m. The average sedimentation rates are about 0.3 m/1000 years. At this rate, the age of the first fossiliferous rocks is about 500 million years.

Problems: This calculation does not account for past erosion or differences in sedimentation rates; also ancient sedimentary rocks are metamorphosed or melted.



4. Charles Lyell (1800's) compared amount of evolution shown by marine mollusks in the various series of the Tertiary System with the amount that had occurred since the beginning of the Pleistocene. He estimated about 80 million years for the Cenozoic Era alone.


5. Radioactivity is discovered by Henri Becquerel in 1896. In 1905, Rutherford and Boltwood used radioactive decay to measure the age of rocks and minerals. Uranium decay produces He, leading to a date of 500 million years for the oldest rocks.
In 1907, Boltwood suspected that lead was the stable end product of the decay of uranium and published the age of a sample of urananite based on Uranium-Lead dating to be 1.64 billion years.

Mass spectrograph was used after WWI (1918). Led to the discovery of over 200 isotopes. Many radioactive elements can be used as geologic clocks since each element decays at its own nearly constant rate. Once this decay rate is known, geologists can estimate the length of time over which decay has been occurring by measuring the amount of radioactive parent and the amount of stable daughter elements.


So far, oldest dated Earth rocks are 3.96 billion years. Older rocks include meteorites and moon rocks, where Moon rocks from the Lunar highland are about 4.5 billion years old, mare basalt rocks are 3.2 - 3.8 billion years old. Meteorites are all older than 4.5 billion years.
 
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lewiscalledhimmaster

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This is a subforum of CF, it welcomes people of all religions including people who lack a belief in deities.

Indubitably, it does.

What would you think if I called your Christ grommet?

Now that would have been something, but that's not what you did.

You are just another abhorrent and hypocritical person, giving lectures about inflammatory comments!

You've missed the point of this thread -- your delightfully loaded comment, facilitated my need for an interesting discussion.

You are a representative for Christians in this open forum, go brush the dust of your bible and learn how to follow in Christ's teachings!

More of the same : '....you people!'

There you see, don't you feel better now -- doing exactly what you did, to make this thread a HAPPENING!

Thank-you.
:thumbsup:
 
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AceHero

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Thus I'm free to accept the science that we are apes and that we share common ancestry with other species. I believe in God; my acceptance of evolutionary science doesn't change that.



Nope, I'm not doubting God at all.



A chimpanzee didn't magically give birth to a human one day. The chimpanzee is simply our closest evolutionary relative.



You can interpret the Bible as literally as you want. But the fact remains that there is overwhelming evidence for evolution.
So as long as people give you "evidence" of topics that disagree with the bible you will readily believe them? You really don't think that is doubting God?

I'm a Christian. I believe in God. I simply interpret Genesis differently than you.
 
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lasthero

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History repeats itself, every generation thinks they have the right answer until a new technology disproves it. Here's another outline on how it kept changing

How old is Earth? (scientific methods)


1.In 1897, Lord Kelvin assumed that the Earth was originally molten and calculated a date based on cooling through conduction and radiation. The age of Earth was calculated to be about 24-40 million years based on the laws of thermodynamics.
Unknown at the time was that the Earth has an internal heat source (radioactive decay)



2. In 1899, John Joly (Irish) calculated the rate of delivery of salt to the ocean. River water has only a small concentration of salts. Rivers flow to the sea, therefore, evaporative concentration of salts can be calculated.
By this method, the age of oceans will equal the total salt in oceans (in grams) divided by rate of salt added (grams per year)

Age of Earth was calculated to be 90-100 million years.

Problems: no way to account for recycled salt, salt incorporated into clay minerals, salt deposits.



3. In 1860, the thickness of total sedimentary record is divided by average sedimentation rates (in mm/yr) and calculated to be about 3 million years old. In 1910, the same measurement yields about 1.6 billion years old.
Early measurements of maximum thickness of sediment ranged from 25,000 m to 112,000 m. With more recent mapping, thickness of fossiliferous rocks is at least 150,000 m. The average sedimentation rates are about 0.3 m/1000 years. At this rate, the age of the first fossiliferous rocks is about 500 million years.

Problems: This calculation does not account for past erosion or differences in sedimentation rates; also ancient sedimentary rocks are metamorphosed or melted.



4. Charles Lyell (1800's) compared amount of evolution shown by marine mollusks in the various series of the Tertiary System with the amount that had occurred since the beginning of the Pleistocene. He estimated about 80 million years for the Cenozoic Era alone.


5. Radioactivity is discovered by Henri Becquerel in 1896. In 1905, Rutherford and Boltwood used radioactive decay to measure the age of rocks and minerals. Uranium decay produces He, leading to a date of 500 million years for the oldest rocks.
In 1907, Boltwood suspected that lead was the stable end product of the decay of uranium and published the age of a sample of urananite based on Uranium-Lead dating to be 1.64 billion years.

Mass spectrograph was used after WWI (1918). Led to the discovery of over 200 isotopes. Many radioactive elements can be used as geologic clocks since each element decays at its own nearly constant rate. Once this decay rate is known, geologists can estimate the length of time over which decay has been occurring by measuring the amount of radioactive parent and the amount of stable daughter elements.


So far, oldest dated Earth rocks are 3.96 billion years. Older rocks include meteorites and moon rocks, where Moon rocks from the Lunar highland are about 4.5 billion years old, mare basalt rocks are 3.2 - 3.8 billion years old. Meteorites are all older than 4.5 billion years.

The age of the Earth became more accurate as we got better tools to measure it. I honestly don't know what you're complaining about.

Should they have declared one age to be right, then stuck to it and never changed, regardless of learning more and developing better techniques? Would you prefer that?
 
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Strathos

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So as long as people give you "evidence" of topics that disagree with the bible you will readily believe them? You really don't think that is doubting God?

Your interpretation of the Bible is not the same as everyone else's. Besides, someone could just as easily accuse you of doubting God by denying what can be observed from examining the universe He created.
 
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lewiscalledhimmaster

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Thus I'm free to accept the science that we are apes and that we share common ancestry with other species. I believe in God; my acceptance of evolutionary science doesn't change that.

:thumbsup: It shouldn't, though some think it should. In fact, I've noticed that there are a quite a few people on this forum who once believed in GOD, but have tossed it all aside (each one, with their own unique account / reason for doing so) and gone back to their 'former way of life.'*

Though some have good reasons, I have found that very often they have very shallow perception when it comes to the meaning of what is carelessly defined as 'faith' This English word (translated in our Bibles) is often as misleading as the word 'species' is to a scientist/biologist.

What it means to believe, or have this 'faith' is clearly something that is wasted on a mind, that will not open to higher reason.**

:liturgy:

---

*Ephesians 4:22
** Proverbs 9:10 (What is 'the fear of the Lord'?)
 
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lewiscalledhimmaster

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TLK Valentine

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My phrase was to show how you have to faith in evolution because the fact is there are no concrete facts to prove what happened a "million years ago or a billion years ago." Sure you can find a fossil and concluded that this animal lived in the past but even the process of figuring out the date is not completely accurate.

If you're asking if we know with 100% certainty, of course not -- human beings are fallible, after all. Even me; even you.

What we have faith in is that if there is a God, He's set certain rules and has not arbitrarily changed them in order to confuse us all.

God's handiwork (if, indeed, it is His) shows a certain age with a certain history -- every method we've come up with thus far to measure this plays this out. Now, God would certainly have the ability to fudge those results -- and he'd certainly have to fudge them all the same way for that to be the case -- but would He have the desire to? What would He gain?

The only faith that a scientist needs is the faith that the world is not ruled by a capricious prankster, a petty tyrant, or a raving lunatic.

Or is that too much faith to ask for?
 
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TLK Valentine

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I believe God believes we are special. So special that He took human form, as a baby, lived a life of a human and then died the most torturous death as an innocent man, in order to provide us with a way to avoid the punishment of eternal damnation that we all deserve.

And why was that torturous death necessary? Seems that if God wanted to provide a way out, all He'd have to do is say so...
 
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chapmic

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I'm a Christian. I believe in God. I simply interpret Genesis differently than you.

2 Peter 1:20

Above all, you must realize that no prophecy in Scripture ever came from the prophet’s own understanding,[h] 21 or from human initiative. No, those prophets were moved by the Holy Spirit, and they spoke from God.
 
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