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Johnnz

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The Bible contains God's story. In that plot we are living in the turning point of history which began at Pentecost. That story is about Jesus being enthroned as Lord of this world, and we are the advance representatives who are co-operating with Him in that renewal. That understanding has given me significant new depths to my faith. I am not waiting around for 'heaven' but am experimenting with principles in the here and now that I will experience in ever increasing depth forever.

John
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wonderwaleye

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Not everyone who has talent will ever get to use it. I'm sure there are some children starving to death in Africa right now who would have made excellent doctors, lawyers, and scientists.

Of course, your post did make me think of things in a way I hadn't before. If God never gives me any abilities, he can't really blame me for not using my nonexistant abilities, just like he can't blame those poor children who never got the chance to use what they were given.



I can absorb all I want intellectually, but it won't do me any good until I get an opportunity to apply what I've learned. How can I truly grow in Christ when my existence is so stagnant?

Maybe I do interpret the Gospels incorrectly. Christ's teachings as I understand them have always made me feel encouraged to live and grow and incite change. But the desire to do all that is killing me inside, because I have nowhere to use it. As I look out into the city and think of all those people out there stuck in dead-end jobs and cold marriages, I realize that most people wouldn't.

I desire too much. And I don't know how to change that.



I will finish it, as it certainly can't hurt. I think what put me of at first was the superficial resemblance to that Law of Attraction fad, which conflicted with Christian principles in several ways. I'm sure once I read a bit more of the Hill book the differences will become apparent.



I think if you look close inside you will see GOD in there. I know I did.



LOVE


steven :hug:
 
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alfrodull

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The Bible contains God's story. In that plot we are living in the turning point of history which began at Pentecost. That story is about Jesus being enthroned as Lord of this world, and we are the advance representatives who are co-operating with Him in that renewal. That understanding has given me significant new depths to my faith. I am not waiting around for 'heaven' but am experimenting with principles in the here and now that I will experience in ever increasing depth forever.

John
NZ

My pastor did a sermon on this a few weeks ago, actually. It was very uplifting at first, until I got the distinct feeling I was wearing a red shirt and standing next to a woman named Mary Sue.
 
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Johnnz

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My pastor did a sermon on this a few weeks ago, actually. It was very uplifting at first, until I got the distinct feeling I was wearing a red shirt and standing next to a woman named Mary Sue.

How about revisiting what uplifted you initially? Try and identify what resonated within, and maybe we can develop that a bit further.

John
NZ
 
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alfrodull

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How about revisiting what uplifted you initially? Try and identify what resonated within, and maybe we can develop that a bit further.

John
NZ

When I was a student, I lived down the street from the natural history museum. I'd go there alone and just wander around and think. I'd look at the hall of gems, and, aside from the beauty of a mirrored hallway filled with hundreds of glittering crystals, be awed at the sheer age of them of, of the planet that formed them. I'd look at the fossils and imagine a world never seen by human eyes, a world so gloriously savage and foreign and untamed. I'd look at the old pottery and wonder what the person who made it was like, wonder what they'd think about it being in that display case for me to look at now. And then I'd sit back and contemplate how the present world, how I, was the product of all this. can't really describe why, but it was always a calming spiritual experience for me. It made me feel connected, I think, significant despite my incredible insignificance in the grand scheme of things.

The sermon I mentioned recaptured that feeling for me. I guess you could say it was the closest thing I ever had to a vision, although I wouldn't call it that. Generations upon generations of people handing these oral and written narratives down, sometimes perhaps, embellishing or changing or misunderstanding them, but preserving their core truths. People fighting and dieing to preserve these truths...even in cases where the other side claimed to have the divine backing. And ultimately, I had inherited them.

Of course, real history is far from being the clean, linear narrative we all desire it to have. And even within this constructed narrative, most of us are cannon fodder, not Napoleon.
 
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YoungPilgrim

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Generations upon generations of people handing these oral and written narratives down, sometimes perhaps, embellishing or changing or misunderstanding them, but preserving their core truths. People fighting and dieing to preserve these truths...even in cases where the other side claimed to have the divine backing. And ultimately, I had inherited them.

Of course, real history is far from being the clean, linear narrative we all desire it to have.

Okay, now I see much more clearly where you're coming from. There are some talks that I think you would benefit a whole lot from listening to. Please listen to them. If you go on iTunes to the music store and search for "RUF at Belmont", you can then click on the link for it that will take you to Kevin Twit's podcast. He taught a series on "Who is the Real Jesus" back in 07. The podcasts are free, and I really think you ought to listen to this particular series of Kevin's.

Grace and peace.
 
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YoungPilgrim

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Oh, I'd also like to point out that you have effectively replied to my posts so far by saying that you don't have anything that you desire or that you hope for, and then by saying that you desire or hope for too much:

"I do not lack hope because I think I'll never be able to accomplish certain goals; I lack hope because I have nothing specific to hope for."

"I desire too much. And I don't know how to change that."


Am I misunderstanding what you're saying, or is there an inconsistency in your logic?
 
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alfrodull

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Oh, I'd also like to point out that you have effectively replied to my posts so far by saying that you don't have anything that you desire or that you hope for, and then by saying that you desire or hope for too much:

"I do not lack hope because I think I'll never be able to accomplish certain goals; I lack hope because I have nothing specific to hope for."

"I desire too much. And I don't know how to change that."


Am I misunderstanding what you're saying, or is there an inconsistency in your logic?

Hope implies optimism. I wouldn't call them the same thing. I see my desire for purpose as hope no more than I see hunger or thirst as hope. It is a need, albeit psychological rather than physical, that is not being filled.
 
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Johnnz

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The drama of a big picture gets to you. But that sort of gets lost in the humdrum of life? A couple of comments.

In NT times Rome ruled, the largest empire that had ever been seen in that part of the world. It was around 60M people and held together by the imperial army. Into that came a small group of people, about 10,000 max at the end of the 1st Century who said that a Jewish rabbi who had been killed as a criminal was the true Lord of the entire world, not Caesar. Without weapons or protest they grew to around 32M within three centuries and changed Roman society.

Today, church can seem to be a pretty ineffective, irrelevant group of people. Comfortable, decent but somewhat boring.

Thus, there is little sense of a big picture story being worked out. Does this make any sense to where you are at?

John
NZ
 
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YoungPilgrim

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Hope implies optimism. I wouldn't call them the same thing. I see my desire for purpose as hope no more than I see hunger or thirst as hope. It is a need, albeit psychological rather than physical, that is not being filled.

Yes, but you said earlier that you have nothing to hope for. You also said earlier that you have much you desire, which you rightly said does not require optimism as does hope. But if you have much that you desire, that is the same thing as having much that you could hope for. The problem is not that you don't have anything to hope for; it is that you do not hope for it. This is what I've been saying all along. It is likely that you have not seen the power of God at work, and you doubt that such power exists or could enter into your life.
 
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alfrodull

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The drama of a big picture gets to you. But that sort of gets lost in the humdrum of life? A couple of comments.

Yes, there's truth to that.

In NT times Rome ruled, the largest empire that had ever been seen in that part of the world. It was around 60M people and held together by the imperial army. Into that came a small group of people, about 10,000 max at the end of the 1st Century who said that a Jewish rabbi who had been killed as a criminal was the true Lord of the entire world, not Caesar. Without weapons or protest they grew to around 32M within three centuries and changed Roman society.

Today, church can seem to be a pretty ineffective, irrelevant group of people. Comfortable, decent but somewhat boring.

Thus, there is little sense of a big picture story being worked out. Does this make any sense to where you are at?

John
NZ

I wouldn't say ineffective or irrelevant. In the United States, at least, the church is effective enough to strip others of their civil rights. I won't debate separation of church and state here, but it's hard to argue that Christians don't have a substantial political or cultural impact.

No, it's not quite as dramatic as meeting in the catacombs and being fed to the lions, but I wouldn't jump at the chance to go back to that. The present, with computers and the internet only recently having become widespread, is potentially as exciting a point in world history as any. I don't regret being born when I was (not that I had a choice in the matter), I regret not being able to participate.

Yes, but you said earlier that you have nothing to hope for. You also said earlier that you have much you desire, which you rightly said does not require optimism as does hope. But if you have much that you desire, that is the same thing as having much that you could hope for. The problem is not that you don't have anything to hope for; it is that you do not hope for it. This is what I've been saying all along. It is likely that you have not seen the power of God at work, and you doubt that such power exists or could enter into your life.

Perhaps you misinterpreted "too much"? I did not mean "too many things", I meant "to a greater extent than is good." Anyway, there's no use in arguing semantics.

To believe in a creator god with no power seems quite foolish, does it not? It's not so much of whether he can do something, but if he will. And as I said in my original post, I have seen his work in my life. If you won't take my word for it, so be it.

I will listen to the mp3s you recommended as soon as I have the time to sit down and do so.
 
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butterflyring09

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When you get into the SPIRIT of God you're start feeling rejuvenated about life all over again.

Key thing is: ASK GOD for that which you feel you are in lack of.

He's the provider of all your needs, believe him for it and you will recieve it.

Pray, Pray in Tongues, Meditate on the Word, Listen to God's music.. etc etc!!

STAY ENCOURAGED!!!
 
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Nobody1

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How does one deal with having no desire to do anything with one's life? Because, I can honestly say I don't.

This is not to say that I'm content doing nothing...I'd give just about anything to have some talents or a drive to accomplish something specific. I just don't, if that makes sense.

<snip>
Oh, and thank you for taking the time to read all that. I know it's long. I just figured I'd get the same old, unsuccessful advice I always hear out of the way.

Sorry, I did not. People may tell you you can do something for God, but you can not do anything for God.

Do what it is God has given you to do and what you are good at.

Live a happy life free of worry and accusations from foolish people who do not understand you.

You can not pay back God for anything nor do anything for Him. Why is that hard to understand?
 
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alfrodull

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Sorry, I did not. People may tell you you can do something for God, but you can not do anything for God.

Do what it is God has given you to do and what you are good at.

Live a happy life free of worry and accusations from foolish people who do not understand you.

You can not pay back God for anything nor do anything for Him. Why is that hard to understand?

It's easy to forget sometimes, but no, we can't really do anything that God couldn't just do by himself. I don't think that justifies wasting our lives, though. He put us on earth for a reason (as a species, at least.) And even if we can do nothing for God, we can help other people.

I cannot do what I am good at if I'm not good at anything, and I can't be happy knowing my life is pointless.

Thank you for the reminder, though.

I guess there comes a point where people like me just accept pointlessness. You don't see forty-year-olds going on about this type of thing, after all. Is there really no one out there who can help me with that? Or have they all deconverted out of God's perceived injustice or others' suspicions they weren't saved?
 
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Johnnz

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We have been somewhat sidetracked by a focus on salvation as the means of getting into heaven. The NT Christians saw Jesus as the co-creator of the universe who in His resurrection had broken all the evil powers that were spoiling our world. The true King had come, returned to heaven for a period, and left His people, in union with Him, to begin the restoration, a kind of advance army preparing for His triumphant return to fully consummate His victory.

Yet, many were slaves, or lower class people well outside positions of power and influence. Here is what their daily life was like.

Housing
The poor (i.e. most of society) lived in very basic houses.There were 1-2 rooms and few windows. Windows were covered by whatever was available. In winter they were cold, in summer insufferably hot. Cooking was on a small stove, without any flue. Smoke, smells and fumes filled the rooms, especially in winter with the windows covered. There were no bathing or toiletry facilities, apart from a basin or bucket. A little cold water would be available for washing provided someone in the household had collected enough. Disposal was through the window and onto the street, hopefully missing any passers by. The open sewers stank, especially in summer. The wealthy would leave for the countryside until cooler weather ad rain made life more bearable in the city.

There was no privacy. Clothing was hard to come by (very expensive for the poor). What very basic clothing one had was to be looked after carefully. Consequently, many tasks were done partly or wholly naked.

Health
There were no doctors, hospitals or medicines available for the poor. Vermin and parasites abounded, and their bites often led to infection which had no treatment available. Hearing was often impaired, eye disease which could lead to blindness was very common, and teeth soon became stained and rotted. Adults seldom had a complete set of teeth. Female babies were seen as a drain and often were dumped into a sewer. Abortion, over which women had little choice, was common and often led to further disease and/or death.

Social Life

Society was highly stratified by status and then by rank. There was little chance of advancement, except by marriage, and that was not generally available to the poor. Education was available only for the sons of the privileged. Women were largely excluded, as both Jews and pagans regarded women as inferior and incapable of serious intellectual thought.Slaves and the poor generally had few rights. Life could be very hard and painful. A pretty female, mother or daughter, could expect her master to use her sexually, for himself and/or as &#8216;after dinners&#8217; for his guests. Some regarded slaves as less than fully human, and therefore physical mistreatment was not an offence.

Marriage
Females were married between 10-14, males 14-18. Women were seen as property, and in higher levels marriage was regarded as an investment, with the bride as the tradeable property. Her role was to produce a male heir. Prostitutes and courtesans were for pleasure, not a wife.

Into that society came a small group of people who espoused different values.

They gathered together as equals, something never done in Roman society. Race, gender and social status were not reasons for social divisions. Gal 3:28-29 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Marriage was held as honourable, and both men and women had rights and responsibilities arising from that. Wives were to honour their husbands and, radically, men were to follow their leaders&#8217; example and love their wives as themselves, even sacrificially. Children were to be respected.

Abortion was opposed and abandoned female babies were taken in and cared for by the families.

All were taught to read, so as to become proficient in the Scriptures. Women no longer were to approach God through their husbands.

They worshipped the One True God, not Caesar, a treasonable offence. And when faced with death, faced that in the belief that they would live again.

It was these very socially confined, basic people that were the NT church. James 1:2 Consider it pure joy, my brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds. Daily life was a trial in itself.

1 Peter 4:12-16, 19 Dear friends, do not be surprised at the painful trial you are suffering, as though something strange were happening to you. But rejoice that you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed. If you are insulted because of the name of Christ, you are blessed, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you. If you suffer, it should not be as a murderer or thief or any other kind of criminal, or even as a meddler. However, if you suffer as a Christian, do not be ashamed, but praise God that you bear that name.

So then, those who suffer according to God's will should commit themselves to their faithful Creator and continue to do good.

They found joy and purpose in their daily, often harsh routines. Bit by bit they changed history. And we are continuing in the same story.

John
NZ
 
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alfrodull

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I appreciate the time you took to to type all that out. Since our records of that era mainly come from the wealthy and educated, including most of the New Testament, the life of the average person if often overlooked. I wish that were different, but I guess it's kind of hard to justify spending time outside scripture in a church service or bible study.

So, what you're saying is that they found meaning in the fact that they, not necessarily with their authority by by their sheer numbers, enacted change by the sum of their small, everyday actions?

The difference is that back in the first century they were generally enacting social change for the better. It's much more ambiguous now. For example, today, it's usually Christians who are pushing for gender inequality. I have never heard anyone but a Christian or Muslim suggest that women should not be members of the clergy or hold other positions of social authority.

By identifying myself as a Christian, I identify myself with all sorts of political ideals that have nothing to do with religion and that I don't necessarily agree with. In fact, I would say Christians are generally more vocal politically than they are active in improving their communities.

It's hard to get satisfaction from simply being part of a movement when the movement is in many ways making the world worse.
 
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Johnnz

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You are right. Christians bemoan much in society. Perhaps a more solid dose of paganism might be good for the church.

But within that we can be real people enacting change and demonstrating a newness and wholeness of life within our own spheres. That is what I have attempted to do with my life. I have seen many amazing things happen within people as I have shared by spiritual adventures with them. I accepted the challenge of Jesus' words "I am come that people might have life in abundance". I wanted to know something of that amidst the reality of everyday life.

You are sufficiently aware of a humdrum faith. That will stand you in good stead in discovering what else Jesus can bring to you as you participate in His life within you.

May God richly guide and bless you in your journey.

John
NZ
 
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SilverFire

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It's good that you enjoy your life. Do you have any insights on how you manage to keep this positive attitude?


I enjoy the same things everyone else enjoys: books, movies, games, etc. Nothing really unusual though, aside from maybe DND, which is basically the same thing as an entire genre of video games but in pen and paper form. Nor would I say I am truly passionate about film or games or literature. I used to think I was, but college made me realize I simply enjoyed experiencing them. I have no desire to study them as a career, and I do not have the artistic ability or the PR skills to participate in their creation.

And who doesn't look at ANY work of art, no matter how well executed, and think of ways they would improve it? Everyone's a critic, as they say. This bit of human nature also applies to professional sports, politics...basically all human activity. I'm not sure where you're trying to go with that one...

I try not to compare myself to others, but in this case, I feel lacking compared to pretty much everyone. I've never heard anyone else fail to list one or more things they were passionate about when asked. Surely all those people can't be lying.


Is everyone a critic? Some people have no ability to appreciate art at all beyond saying, "That's nice. It reminds me of a sunset." Again, let's start from what you've said. So you don't have the desire to study art, film, music, etc. in depth, but you enjoy experiencing them. Whether everyone appreciates these same things is not important; what matters is that you enjoy them.

Can you explain to others how or why you enjoy these things? If so, then you might try doing reviews. Epinions.com is a great place to start.

Ok, you mentioned D&D, which I absolutely love. So...what about it appeals to you? To me, what I love about the game is the ability to create endless stories with my friends. I get to be creative; I get to paint worlds; and furthermore, people like to be around me when I do it. So it can be a big ego boost. Yes, I'm usually the DM.

Even if you're not the DM, but a player, you have the have the ability to visualize in order to enjoy the game. Visual thinkers are usually creative.
 
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alfrodull

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Is everyone a critic? Some people have no ability to appreciate art at all beyond saying, "That's nice. It reminds me of a sunset." Again, let's start from what you've said. So you don't have the desire to study art, film, music, etc. in depth, but you enjoy experiencing them. Whether everyone appreciates these same things is not important; what matters is that you enjoy them.

Can you explain to others how or why you enjoy these things? If so, then you might try doing reviews. Epinions.com is a great place to start.

Can one actually make a living solely from writing reviews without devoting their life to the subject? I highly doubt it. Considering the perks, that has to be one of the most competetive jobs there is.

Anyway, journalism really isn't for me. I don't have the people skills it requires, and I tend to loathe those who do. I only thought I would like writing initially because I only knew about the part where you sit alone behind a keyboard.

Ok, you mentioned D&D, which I absolutely love. So...what about it appeals to you? To me, what I love about the game is the ability to create endless stories with my friends. I get to be creative; I get to paint worlds; and furthermore, people like to be around me when I do it. So it can be a big ego boost. Yes, I'm usually the DM.

Even if you're not the DM, but a player, you have the have the ability to visualize in order to enjoy the game. Visual thinkers are usually creative.

I don't like to DM, to be honest. If I have a story to tell, I'm not going to let it be determined by dice rolls. (Not that I have any stories worth telling lately.)

I mostly play because I get to live through my character, in a way. I'll never be anything but a level one commoner in real life, but once in awhile I can escape to a world where I have epic powers and am able to change the course of history.

I also enjoy the fact that the game mechanics in D&D are relatively simple. I understand the mechanics behind more complex games like MMOs a lot better because of the time I spent with D&D and other more transparent games as a kid. This in turn allows me to get by in games my horrible reflexes wouldn't normally allow me to play.
 
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