How does the unregenerate person obey?

[St_Worm2]

I guess it's possible for someone to have a perfect life of obedience to God and His laws like Christ did , so again , good luck with that .

Hi W2, if that's true, what do we do with verses/passages like Romans 3:23 & 1 John 1:8-10 Such passages seem to teach that a, "perfect life of obedience", like Christ lived, is something that is simply not possible for anyone else but Him!

Thanks!

In Christ,
David

 

[watchman 2]

Hi W2, if that's true, what do we do with verses/passages like Romans 3:23 & 1 John 1:8-10 Such passages seem to teach that a, "perfect life of obedience", like Christ lived, is something that is simply not possible for anyone else but Him!

Thanks!

In Christ,
David

Ya, i'm with you! But theres a surprising amount of people that think they can become "in Christ' by their own obedience.
The reason is they claim the Bible and its promises before they have the Spirit of Christ. If they have not the Spirit of Christ , Christ is none of theres , if Christ is none of theres , Gods Word can't be theres either.

They don't seem to realize the obedience they need to fulfill , is not breaking one law of God , not one sin , not even a thought breaking a law of God or having a sinful thought , from the second your born until the second you die. Thats the only obedience that will result in being able to stand in the presence of the Father.

I don't for a second think anyone is able to fulfill that, not without justification. Which is to be seen "just like Christ.

But God gives people the chance to try. Maybe it's one of those deceiving delusions God gives people from time to time.

 

[EmSw]

I am not talking about reciprocation, but the acceptance of the free unconditional gift of God’s Love for them as it is given, as pure charity. God is Loving everyone, but if your accepting God’s charity as some kind of obligation on God’s part or because you feel you deserve His Love or will pay back His Love then the transaction of Love is not completed.

So bling, just how exactly do you accept the free unconditional gift? Do you not love the Lord back?

What exactly is the transaction of love?

 

[EmSw]

Wouldn't waste my time on it , the Holy Spirit obeys for me as the result of a continual surrendering of my life and will to God. I know you don't agree and is why i wished you good luck in "your" obedience.

I guess it's possible for someone to have a perfect life of obedience to God and His laws like Christ did , so again , good luck with that .

So, does the HS disobey for you also? Heck, we can blame the HS for every evil we do. Disobey God, no problem, the HS did it for me.

 

[bling]

So bling, just how exactly do you accept the free unconditional gift? Do you not love the Lord back?

What exactly is the transaction of love?

One of the greatest ways God expresses His Love for humans is in His unconditional forgiveness of our sins. The issue is not with God, but with man’s willingness to accept God’s forgiveness as pure charity.

Some people do not think they have really “sinned” against God and thus have created an unbelievable huge debt to God, they may not acknowledge the existence of a benevolent Creator or that they are offending God.

Others (like Calvinist) do not see the need to humbly accept God’s forgiveness, because God forgave them without their involvement so no requirement to be humbly accepting of charity.

Still others (like Catholics) think they were born into a group that has been forgiven and the “asking” for forgiveness is just a formality.

Others want to earn, pay back, or feel they deserve forgiveness so no reason to accept it as pure charity.

The only way I see people initially accepting God’s Love is by first accepting God’s forgiveness and Christ and the world has shown us: “…he that is forgiven much Loves much…”, so if you have humbly accepted God’s forgiveness of your unbelievable huge debt of sin, you will automatically receive an unbelievable huge Love (Godly type Love). That Love will be seen in how you treat others. An example of it not happening is the unforgiving servant since he did not humbly accept the Master’s forgiveness as pure charity Matt 18: 21-35.

Look at Matt. 18: 21-35 and you can see the master forgiving (expressing an unbelievable huge unconditional Love in the form of forgiveness for the servant, but the servant was asking for more time and not forgiveness and did not receive God’s Love (forgiveness) so the transaction was not completed and the servant still owned the debt.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

"Behold what exotic [foreign to the human heart] love
the Father has permanently bestowed upon us, to the end
that we may be named children [born-ones, bairns] of
God. And we are. On this account the world does not
have an experiential knowledge of us, because it has not
come into an experiential knowledge of Him. Divinely
loved ones, now born-ones of God we are. And not yet has
it been made visible what we shall be. We know absolutely
that whenever it is made visible, like ones to Him we shall
be, because we shall see Him just as He is. And every-
one who has this hope continually set on Him is con-
stately purifying himself just as that One is pure.

Everyone who habitually commits sin, also habitually
combusts lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness. And you
know absolutely that that One was manifested in order
that He might take away our sins; and sin in Him does
not exist. Everyone who in Him is constantly abiding is
not habitually sinning. Everyone who is constantly sin-
ning has not with discernment sen Him, nor has he
known Him, with the result that that condition is true of
him at present. Little born-ones, stop allowing anyone to
be leading you astray. The one who habitually does
righteousness is righteous, just as that One is righteous.
The one who is habitually committing sin is out of the
devil as a source, because from the beginning the devil
has been sinning. For this purpose there was manifested
the Son of God, in order that He might bring to naught
the worlds of the devil.


Everyone who has been born out of God with the
present result that he is a born-one of God does not
habitually commit sin because His seed remains in him.
And he is not able habitually to sin, because out of God
he has been born with the present result that he is a
born-one of God. In this is apparent who are the born-
ones of God and the born-ones of the devil. Everyone
who is not habitually doing righteousness is not of God,
also the one who is not habitually loving his brother
[Christian] with a divine and self-sacrificial love.

Because this is the message which you heard from the
beginning, namely, We should habitually be loving one
another with a divine and self-sacrificial love; not even
as Cain [who] was out of the Pernicious One, and killed
his brother by severing his jugular vein. And on what
account did he kill him? Because his works were perni-
cious and those of his brother righteous. Stop marveling,
brethren, if, as is the case, the world hates you. As for
us, we know absolutely that we have passed over per-
mannerly out of the death into the life, because we are
habitually loving the brethren with a divine and self-
sacrificial love. The one who is not habitually loving in
this manner is abiding in the sphere of the death. Every-
one who habitually is hating his brother [Christian] is a
manslayer. And you know absolutely that no manslayer
has life eternal abiding in him.

In this we have come to know by experience the afore-
mentioned love, because that One on behalf of us laid
down His soul. And, as for us, we have a moral obliga-
tion on behalf of our brethren to lay down our souls.
But whoever has as a constant possession the necessities
of life, and deliberately keeps on contemplating his brother
constantly having need, and snaps shut his heart from
him, how is it possible that the love of God is abiding
in him? Litlle born-ones, let us not be loving in the sphere
of word, nor even in the sphere of the tongue, but in
the sphere of deed and truth. In this we shall know
experientially that we are out of the truth, and in His
presence shall tranquilize our hearts in whatever our
hearts condemn us, because greater is God than our
hearts and knows all things. Divinely loved ones, if our
hearts are not condemning us, a fearless confidence we
constantly have facing God the Father, and whatever we
are habitually asking we keep on receiving from Him,
because His commandments we are habitually keeping
with solicitous care, and the things which are pleasing in
His penetrating gaze we are habitually doing.

And this is His commandment, namely, We should
believe the Name of His Son Jesus Christ, and be habit-
ually loving one another even as He gave a commandment
to us. And the one who as a habit of life exercises a
solicitous care in keeping His commandments, in Him is
abiding, and He himself is abiding in him. And in this
we know experientially that He is abiding in us, from the
Spirit as a source whom He gave to us."

FIRST JOHN 3:1-24
The New Testament
An Expanded Translation (from Greek) 1961
reprinted 1996
Kenneth S. Wuest

 

[Danthemailman]

By the grace of God. Grace allows the unsaved person to believe the gospel and repent of his sins so that he may receive the Holy Spirit and be saved.

Amen! Although it is our responsibility to repent and believe the gospel and will be held accountable for unbelief, saving belief in Christ is never exclusively a matter of human decision. Unless the Father draws us in and enables us, we would NEVER come to Christ through repentance and choose to believe the gospel all by ourselves. (John 6:44,65). This is where the grace of God comes in.

Acts 20:21 - testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance toward God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.

Acts 5:32 - And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him."

Ephesians 1:13 - In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation -- having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise.

We receive the Holy Spirit when we believe the gospel and by the grace of God, choosing to believe the gospel is the act of obedience that the unregenerate person does.

Romans 10:16 - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our report?"