How do we know that a person is anointed, today?

[Fireinfolding]

Heres some contrasts as well

Numbers 12:6 And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the LORD will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream.

Jerm 14:14 Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart.

Jerm 23:16 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD.

 

[Nanopants]

Theres this one too (sign or wonder coming to pass)

Duet 13:2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;

Coupled with let us go after other gods.

Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast

Yea, this one is troubling. So then, if the word of the prophet is fulfilled and he does not say: "follow after other gods", then he is a prophet of God?

 

[Fireinfolding]

Yea, this one is troubling. So then, if the word of the prophet is fulfilled and he does not say: "follow after other gods", then he is a prophet of God?

The thing is, the miracles (whatever they are) are of power, and can be acknowledged as such, as the scriptures speak of the power given to do such things (likewise). However theres no need to reject the person if that person is not saying follow other gods.

Its interesting though, it appears as there are miracles done ( as shown in revelation) which is the first thing that catches the eyes of men. Which is then followed by the instruction given them (by the same) "to make an image to the beast" and in that way the instruction to do so (in itself) doesnt serve God (in the making of the same) but (there) moving along in the intent purpose for to worship it. So there, he is not specifically saying (by mouth at the first) let us go after other gods, but first to them "make an image" (and then...) sorta coy

Thats what I am catching

God bless

 

[Nanopants]

Interesting.

I also just had a fascinating thought that sort of goes along with this. That verse in revelation regarding making an image to the beast reminds me much of the story of Aaron at the base of Mt. Sinai when he fashioned the golden calf for the Israelites.

I am wondering if it is possible then that this could be saying "even prophets can fall: if they do, don't follow them." The story of Saul also seems to confirm this: he was supposedly numbered among the prophets, but later after he had fallen, he commanded the execution of his son Jonathan, and the Israelites refused to obey him.

But still I think there is a distinction to be made between fallen prophets and false prophets. And then there's still the possibility that entirely false prophets can also have miraculous power. That's confusing.

 

[Fireinfolding]

You bring up a good point, whats interesting is doing a study on "right own eye" contrasted against "right Lords eyes" the images play into it. However Paul mentions the very thing you just brought up, showing they were examples for us. I did a study on it, the earrings of gold (in relation to the calf) are relevant to the picture twofold

Here, check it out

Earring of gold (shadow of) and golden calf - Christian Forums

Though the same thing can be shown in revelation, or so it seems to me it can (and also in accord with whats written) interestingly.

I'll post beneathe, to show what portions appear to connect from old, it sure seems to speak according to the same thing.

God bless

 

[Fireinfolding]

For example, we have one beast come up out of the earth and one out of the sea,

And here it says this (in this manner)

Exodus 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

So in revelation we see this...

Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

Now, the second beast (here) of the first says....

Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

And likewise says this...

Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

Then look how this excludes something

Duet 40:28 And there ye shall serve gods, the work of men's hands, wood and stone, which neither see, nor hear, nor eat, nor smell.

No mention of "speaking" in that verse either (lol)

I couldnt resist because that is in scripture that way a few times, even in revelation itself.

God bless

 

[Nanopants]

That's a very interesting collection. I'm still working through it and only got as far as the shadow of the calf, but so far it reminds me of the seed of the Kingdom in the Gospels (as in Luke 8) - how it is plucked out, etc.

This seems to suggest that those who don't believe may have a tendency to construct a false image using that same word ...

 

[Nanopants]

Only Numbers 12:6, and John 14:21-23, can provide this proof. I cannot find any other scripture to provide this proof. If you know of some, please let me know. Thank you.

This one I just remembered from a few years back:

And Samuel grew, and the LORD was with him, and did let none of his words fall to the ground.

 

[Fireinfolding]

That's a very interesting collection. I'm still working through it and only got as far as the shadow of the calf, but so far it reminds me of the seed of the Kingdom in the Gospels (as in Luke 8) - how it is plucked out, etc.

This seems to suggest that those who don't believe may have a tendency to construct a false image using that same word ...

Blessings Nanopants, The time prior is actually called by Paul, the time of ignorance, God winked at, whereas now he commands men everywhere to repent, and their apostleship was for the obedience of the faith (not all have obeyed, they said). Theres a contrast between the two I mentioned previously, "right in his own eyes and "right in the eyes of the Lord" (which uses the same parallels) or (another way to word it) "there is a way that seems right to a man" (as we have heard it). So its not something that seems wrong (but right) to a man. They breaking off their earrings was as taking off the reproof they heard (turning their ears away) and likewise doing what made him angry. Then He made them drink it

Though I suppose the same shown in Moses can be mirrored somewhat in Christ, in that Moses was delayed (they rose up and played) whereas Jesus speaks of those saying "my Lord delayeth his coming" (comng and finding them doing what they ought not to) as well.

I never would have given it much thought if Paul didnt leave it as an example for us to behold, telling us these were written as examples for us not to do (as they did). Then seeing somewhat of a similiarity in revelation, knowing, what will be has been before and that which was, is not, yet is sorta speaks the same. Id much rather compare scripture with scripture, then come up with my own ideas (which I higly distrust) lol

Anyway, I am interested in looking at these things myself. Ever feel like Daniel

And I Daniel fainted, and was sick certain days; afterward I rose up, and did the king's business; and I was astonished at the vision, but none understood it.

Now I can understand THAT (lol)

Thank God its written, knowledge will increase and the wise shall understand (gives me hope at least)

 

[Nanopants]

Blessings Nanopants, The time prior is actually called by Paul, the time of ignorance, God winked at, whereas now he commands men everywhere to repent, and their apostleship was for the obedience of the faith (not all have obeyed, they said). Theres a contrast between the two I mentioned previously, "right in his own eyes and "right in the eyes of the Lord" (which uses the same parallels) or (another way to word it) "there is a way that seems right to a man" (as we have heard it). So its not something that seems wrong (but right) to a man. They breaking off their earrings was as taking off the reproof they heard (turning their ears away) and likewise doing what made him angry. Then He made them drink it

Though I suppose the same shown in Moses can be mirrored somewhat in Christ, in that Moses was delayed (they rose up and played) whereas Jesus speaks of those saying "my Lord delayeth his coming" (comng and finding them doing what they ought not to) as well.

I never would have given it much thought if Paul didnt leave it as an example for us to behold, telling us these were written as examples for us not to do (as they did). Then seeing somewhat of a similiarity in revelation, knowing, what will be has been before and that which was, is not, yet is sorta speaks the same. Id much rather compare scripture with scripture, then come up with my own ideas (which I higly distrust) lol

Anyway, I am interested in looking at these things myself. Ever feel like Daniel

And I Daniel fainted, and was sick certain days; afterward I rose up, and did the king's business; and I was astonished at the vision, but none understood it.

Now I can understand THAT (lol)

Thank God its written, knowledge will increase and the wise shall understand (gives me hope at least)

Well thank you very much for sharing. It was a very interesting study to say the least. I do enjoy looking at the symbolism that is present in alot of the scriptures, but so much of it is guesswork for myself, but it's fun to speculate and sometimes I hit gold.

In any case, I agree that we should interpret scripture with scripture, but my only beef is with the way we do it. And I think this is also in the scriptures:

Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner [stone], a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste. (Isa 28:16)

And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone]; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: (Eph 2:20,21)

Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. (1 Pe 2:6)

The way I read this is that all doctrine and understanding should proceed from Christ and lead outward. Some people I talk to seem to profess Christ but structure their teaching on Moses or someone else as the foundation (I don't get this so much from you but from others). So I prefer to use the Gospel as my guidebook to the scriptures, if that makes sense.

It's interesting that the author of 1st Peter goes on to describe the cornerstone becoming a stumbling block for the disobedient (those who hear Christ's words but do not obey). Certainly I was stuck in a rut for a couple of years, listening to teachers who were telling me I needed to be afraid. The Gospel just didn't seem to make sense to me at that time: like one day I'm forgiven the next I'm going to hell, and over and over and over. All the while Christ was saying "be not afraid", I just had to listen and believe.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Well thank you very much for sharing. It was a very interesting study to say the least. I do enjoy looking at the symbolism that is present in alot of the scriptures, but so much of it is guesswork for myself, but it's fun to speculate and sometimes I hit gold.

In any case, I agree that we should interpret scripture with scripture, but my only beef is with the way we do it. And I think this is also in the scriptures:



The way I read this is that all doctrine and understanding should proceed from Christ and lead outward. Some people I talk to seem to profess Christ but structure their teaching on Moses or someone else as the foundation (I don't get this so much from you but from others). So I prefer to use the Gospel as my guidebook to the scriptures, if that makes sense.

It's interesting that the author of 1st Peter goes on to describe the cornerstone becoming a stumbling block for the disobedient (those who hear Christ's words but do not obey). Certainly I was stuck in a rut for a couple of years, listening to teachers who were telling me I needed to be afraid. The Gospel just didn't seem to make sense to me at that time: like one day I'm forgiven the next I'm going to hell, and over and over and over. All the while Christ was saying "be not afraid", I just had to listen and believe.

Absolutely, which is why I wont look at it until I find it in touched upon in the gospel itself, for example (what we were discussing) a reference...

1Cr 10:7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.

Then you trace it back from there

If its any consolation I dont listen to much out there at all either. However I wont say much more on "that" especially on an open forum (some things I keep to myself) but lets say I understand

Yes, they are as Zion which are come to trust the Lord. He is the stone (the precious one) laid in them by the Father. Indeed the prophets and apostles all testify of Him, and we have this witness in us. Paul himself proved Jesus Christ out of the law and the prophets. He is the righteousness of God without the law yet is witnessed by them.

The word of faith they preached is back here...

Duet 30:14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it,

What Paul preached...

Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

Just match them up

God bless you Nanopants

 

[Nanopants]

Cool beans. Thanks again and God bless you too.

 

[Tiamiyu Hussein Adeshola]

Hi Thorwald,

I have experiences nearly on a daily basis in the seer realm Nd in the physical but I need to discuss in detail and at length with some one who experiences same. D church is where we come together and equip ourselves for d world, even as d holy-spirit does the equipping. DS forum, can be a church.

 

[W2L]

I don't believe in following prophets or teachers. We see how bad teachers lead us astray with things like the prosperity doctrine, and with all the many denominations we can see that teachers will only teach us division anyway.

The truth is that the doctrine of Christ isn't too hard to learn, and by simply reading the New testament for ourselves we can learn much. People usually need teachers to tell them what they want to hear instead of what the apostles have already told us in their writings. People often quote paul referring to apostles, teachers, prophets and miracle workers, but he was mostly referring to those who established the church. Its actually dangerous to follow such people today, and in the last days the anti Christ will deceive people with lying signs and wonders. Christ also warns that many will boast in such things but will be rejected by the Lord himself. That's my opinion.

We already have the anointing in ourselves. Seek and you will find, and don't forget, love is the more excellent way, as paul says (1 Co 13)


2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths


1 John 2:27 As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.


Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

 

[Jim Langston]

I have met many people who hear God and we all hear different things, generally dealing with our own walks with God. Does this make them prophets? I really don't know. I used to think a prophet and a seer were two different things in the bible until I just came across this: 1 Samuel 9:9 "(Beforetime in Israel, when a man went to inquire of God, thus he spake, Come, and let us go to the seer: for he that is now called a Prophet was beforetime called a Seer.)" so now I don't know even more.

I do know I have prophesied in the past, i have told people what would happen in the future without realizing why i was doing it or even that I was. I generally found out afterward. But I have no new Revelation other than what is in the bible, and I don't believe a modern day prophet would have any new testimony to give in the way of salvation.

I have met people who have claimed to be prophets and usually found them claiming so for personal gain.

It is a difficult question. All we can go by is what the bible says, if someone says something is going to happen and it doesn't, then they are a false prophet. If someone claims something that goes against the bible, they are a false prophet. Truthfully, though, what will a prophet serve us today as long as we follow the bible?

Is everyone who hears God a prophet? I don't know.
Are those who hear God and prophesy (tell something that is going to happen in the future) a prophet? Yes.
i everyone who says what is going to happen in the future a prophet? No, look at fortunetelling.

if you can find a definite answer please let me know. My question to this is: Is everyone who legitimately hears God a prophet? Are are only those who prophesy a prophet?

 

[Job8]

Many 'churches' call members within their congregation, prophets or apostles.

Prophets and apostles received direct Divine revelations which were in fact the Word of God. The words which needed to be recorded for posterity were written down and became Scripture. Any claim today about apostles and prophets is false, since their words would have to be equivalent to Scripture.

What 'proof' is required (supported by scripture), that lets someone know, that another person is in fact 'anointed by God', as a prophet or apostle?

The term *anointed* is misused. Scripture says that EVERY BELIEVER is anointed -- has the *unction* (anointing) of the Holy Spirit, who indwells every believer. That is why we can be taught directly by the Holy Spirit and we can also discern the truth from others.

The term *gifted" is more appropriate, and the spiritual gifts for ministering the Word are evangelist, pastor, and teacher. If a man is gifted, it will be evident to other Christians within his local church because he will be able to minister the Word effectively, and everything he teaches will be strictly according to the Word.

I am in perfect agreement that the only English language translation which is faithful and reliable is the Authorized Version (KJV). It is firmly grounded on the traditional Hebrew and Greek texts, and has been blessed by God for over 400 years. Those who try to present modern Bible versions as superior do not really know about the Great Bible Version Hoax.

 

[Catherineanne]

Many 'churches' call members within their congregation, prophets or apostles. We find in N/T scripture, that ministers are 'teachers' (below the apostles or prophets). Bishops, Deacons, are simply 'teachers', that are given church 'hierarchy' positions.

What 'proof' is required (supported by scripture), that lets someone know, that another person is in fact 'anointed by God', as a prophet or apostle?

Numbers 12:6, refers only to a prophet. The O/T scripture seems to tell us to 'test' the prophecies of a prophet. Is there any need for further prophecies beyond the N/T?

Thorwald Johansen

The tree is known by its fruit.

 

[Jim Langston]

Prophets and apostles received direct Divine revelations which were in fact the Word of God. The words which needed to be recorded for posterity were written down and became Scripture. Any claim today about apostles and prophets is false, since their words would have to be equivalent to Scripture.

I agree with your assumption that if a person heard from God directly it would be the word of God. Now, what do you base your claim on the fact if someone claims to hear God they are false? Where from scripture do you get this? Or is this just your opinion you are trying to pass on with the same authority as scripture.

 

[Job8]

Now, what do you base your claim on the fact if someone claims to hear God they are false? Where from scripture do you get this?

What I have said if someone claims to be AN APOSTLE OR A PROPHET that is a false claim.

1. Apostles and prophets have given us the Scriptures -- the Word of God (2 Pet 1:19-21).

2. The book of Revelation has closed the Word of God.

3. The so-called prophets on the Elijah list have not given genuine prophecies but dreams, visions, etc.

19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. [origin]

21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

 

[JoeP222w]

There are no more Apostles or Prophets today.

Anyone claiming to be an Apostle today is a liar, because they have not directly sat under the teaching of Jesus, and the other Apostles have not accepted that false person as an Apostle.

Anyone who claims to be a Prophet today, and claims to be speaking for God, better be making a direct quote from the Bible when they do so. Because if they claim to be a Prophet, and say something that is contradictory to scripture, or does not come true, the Bible says that they are worthy of the death penalty. God does not take lightly someone falsely representing Him.

Scripture teaches us that the Bible is sufficient, so no more Prophets are necessary.

Deacons, are simply 'teachers'

To be more accurate, Deacons are not defined as Teachers in the Bible. That role is for Pastors or Elders. That does not mean that Deacons cannot teach, but they are not mandated by scripture to teach.