How do pro-abortion Christians reconcile their views with pro-life scripture?

[pescador]

There is NO SUCH thing as pro-abortion Pro choice yes, but someone who is pro-abortion does not want the human race to last past the current generation.

FINALLY someone has put this whole issue on proper perspective! Thanks so much for doing it. [Staff edit]

 

[pescador]

This is the second time you've used language like 'consequences', even while arguing that this isn't about punishment.

If the issue is sanctity of life and protecting the unborn, I think you'd be better served sticking to that language instead of getting mired in this other language, which can be construed as sexist or derogatory

It isn't construed as sexist or derogatory, it IS sexist or derogatory. [Staff edit]

 

[pescador]

[Staff edit]

Maybe it's time to realize that Scripture is NOT derogatory toward women, which is what the whole issue is about. Men and women were created equal in the eyes of God, and there is neither male nor female in Christ Jesus. Women should not be discriminated against because of who they are.

If you want to go on about the killing of babies, God not only killed the firstborn of Egypt but permitted many, many other babies to be killed in both Testaments. For example, you can talk about John the Baptizer leaping in Elizabeth's womb, but you can't forget that God allowed Herod to murder untold young male children. Matthew 2:6-18, "Then Herod, when he saw that he had been tricked by the wise men, became furious, and he sent and killed all the male children in Bethlehem and in all that region who were two years old or under, according to the time that he had ascertained from the wise men. Then was fulfilled what was spoken by the prophet Jeremiah:

“A voice was heard in Ramah,
weeping and loud lamentation,
Rachel weeping for her children;
she refused to be comforted, because they are no more.”

Please stop the patronizing of women and denying their status as equals. It's contrary to scripture.

 

[Misty0408]

God is the author of life, we are not.

If killing babies sent them to heaven, why would any of us want to live and possibly lose our salvation. Then we should kill all of our babies so we can send them to heaven. That makes no sense.

Do aborted babies go to heaven? We don't know what happens to their souls. The Bible says baptism is necessary for salvation. People do not go to heaven based on a poll of popular responses.

Thomas Aquinas said this about babies who died in the womb, or before baptism:

"Their souls seem to lack the transformation by grace needed for the Beatific Vision, so they cannot have it. But they have a natural happiness, and do not miss what they do not have."

While this is not official teaching, it is widely held to be an acceptable understanding.

We do know that God would rather we live our lives, that children are a blessing, that life is a gift.

 

[RDKirk]

It's a good thing NARAL and Planned Parenthood weren't around back in ancient times or Mary would've been pressured to go ahead with the abortion since her circumstances were the gold standard of an unplanned pregnancy.

Abortion is murder. It's as simple as that.

Well, Roman women were having both chemical and surgical abortions in those days, as well as infanticide. The Jews didn't do abortion.

The apostles had a lot to say about how Christians should behave...nothing to say about how pagans should behave.

The question of abortion law really boils down to: Does the Church have Christ's authority to use the king's sword to force pagans to act like Christians? Will that get pagans into heaven?

 

[pdudgeon]

So you're flat out saying that anyone who isn't completely anti-abortion is therefore absolutely unsaved abs non-Christian. You're in other words hanging a person's salvation and Christianity in their agreeing with your interpretation?

no,we're in agreement with God's word and His creation.
men and women by themselves are not able to create life.
That is God's gift, His perogative, and His choice.
You will find absolutely NO agreement in the Bible that God condones or approves of abortion.

 

[pdudgeon]

There is NO SUCH thing as pro-abortion Pro choice yes, but someone who is pro-abortion does not want the human race to last past the current generation.

get ready for it, because that's exactly the direction in which we are headded.

 

[pdudgeon]

Thanks for the clarification. I once felt as you do (and may again). I still do regarding many cases, but I can't see Scripture as being quite as definitive for all cases as you can. I very much respect your view though.

then let me put this to you....
if those who are pro choice believe that it is the woman's right to decide whether she will or will not give birth, do those people automatically assume that their mother's had the same right and made the decision to proceed with giving birth to them?

and one last question... if on the other hand they themselves were unwanted chldren,
and because of that they in turn support a women's choice not to have children she does not desire,
then what justification can they possibly have for not relinquishing their own lives?

you see, this inevitably comes down to "I have a right to live, but no one else does."
bottom line, pro abortion is based upon selfishness and greed.

 

[pdudgeon]

I have recently concluded that abortion should be a LEGAL option during the first third of preganenacy, ( which is when the majority of it occurs, anyway. That is not to say that I would encourage a woman to HAVE an abortion, nor that I would have one myself. It is only to say that I believe that LEGALLY speaking a woman should have that option. By the way, I do not believe that legally and morally are always the same thing, nor do I believe that a behavior I may consider immoral should be illegal in a secular society.

question please...
why are you limiting the option for abortion to only the first trimester?

 

[dogs4thewin]

get ready for it, because that's exactly the direction in which we are headded.

Well, maybe so maybe no, but that would be what pro-abortion would mean.

 

[BrianJK]

no,we're in agreement with God's word and His creation.
men and women by themselves are not able to create life.
That is God's gift, His perogative, and His choice.
You will find absolutely NO agreement in the Bible that God condones or approves of abortion.

You won't find me arguing that point... only the point at which life begins. There are more options than simply coitus and birth.

 

[dogs4thewin]

question please...
why are you limiting the option for abortion to only the first trimester?

because the first 3 months maybe four or five but three is just best there is NO way a baby can make it outside the womb. If a mother is killed in the first three months then the baby has NO chance. Four or five months the baby is more developed and I just do not feel that that is good at all much past five months and the baby COULD live outside the mom now the closer she is to the due date the more likely it is, of course, but the first three to five months LITERALLY the child could not live outside the womb.

 

[PanDeVida]

Luke 1:41-44, for example: "When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit . . . . As soon as the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy."

The quoted Bible verse describes fetuses in the womb as babies, or in other words living humans.

There are some liberal Christians out there who believe that a woman has the right to choose an abortion if her pregnancy is inconvenient, not realizing that everyone deserves a chance at life. How do these left-wing Christians reconcile their pro-abortion views with Bible scripture that teaches life begins at conception?

Matthew 7:21Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Lord, have not we prophesied in thy name, and cast out devils in thy name, and done many miracles in thy name? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity.

The definition of
iniquities.
1.
gross injustice or wickedness.
2.
a violation of right or duty; wicked act; sin.

Abortion is a gross injustice or wickedness a violation of right or duty; Yes, abortion is a wicked act; SIN

 

[BrianJK]

There are lots of blanket statements without backing. Yes don't commit iniquity. Got it. You haven't proven that all abortion is sin. Even if I agreed entirely, I should like to see the Scripture to back it up.

 

[PanDeVida]

Luke 1:41-44, for example: "When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit . . . . As soon as the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy."

The quoted Bible verse describes fetuses in the womb as babies, or in other words living humans.

There are some liberal Christians out there who believe that a woman has the right to choose an abortion if her pregnancy is inconvenient, not realizing that everyone deserves a chance at life. How do these left-wing Christians reconcile their pro-abortion views with Bible scripture that teaches life begins at conception?

Conception: the spark of life
Recent research concerning the spark of life comports with what Christians have believed for centuries—life begins at conception. Formal teaching of this belief goes back at least as far as the fourth-century writings of Basil the Great (one of the first and best theologians of the Trinity).

Please click on link below to watch a fantastic show of LIGHT/LIFE at conception. My point is who are we to extinguish this Light/Life by abortion? Truly any christian who believes that they can extinguish this Light, is not a Christian, it is better to be told now, in order for a change of heart, than to be told later in front of the Lord, because that will be to late. we are our brothers keeper.

https://update.gci.org/2016/05/the-spark-of-life/

 

[pdudgeon]

because the first 3 months maybe four or five but three is just best there is NO way a baby can make it outside the womb. If a mother is killed in the first three months then the baby has NO chance. Four or five months the baby is more developed and I just do not feel that that is good at all much past five months and the baby COULD live outside the mom now the closer she is to the due date the more likely it is, of course, but the first three to five months LITERALLY the child could not live outside the womb.

so you accept that at three months gestation the baby is a person, and that person is alive?

 

[Armoured]

so you accept that at three months gestation the baby is a person, and that person is alive?

For the nth time, no one is saying a foetus isn't "alive". If you want to claim it's a "person" you'd better define exactly what you mean by the term.

 

[pdudgeon]

There are lots of blanket statements without backing. Yes don't commit iniquity. Got it. You haven't proven that all abortion is sin. Even if I agreed entirely, I should like to see the Scripture to back it up.

are you sure that you realy want to see it?
to see what God thinks of it, and the people who do so willingly?

look at Hosea 9:7-13
and then Hosea 14:9

 

[BrianJK]

are you sure that you realy want to see it?
to see what God thinks of it, and the people who do so willingly?

look at Hosea 9:7-13
and then Hosea 14:9

I'm wondering what you believe this proves. Would you mind running me through your exegesis and conclusion?

 

[dogs4thewin]

so you accept that at three months gestation the baby is a person, and that person is alive?

um the baby is not alive as it is not NEARLY fully developed. That, and people are going to abort any now. You have two choices provide a mostly safe option up to a certain point OR you can not and people will get it done on the black market with no regulation with unqualifed folks preforming it which is more likely to lead to harm for the mother as well as more pain, if in fact babies can feel pain at that point.