Homosexuality in the church?

[JesusOhowgreatisYourLove]

I've been this new church for a couple of months now, which affirms all the fundamentals of the historic christian faith. Yet there are some openly gay individuals and some who hold to a pro-gay agenda, like same-sex marriage. None of the Pastors or leaders at this church, from hearing their preaching and personal fellowship seem to hold this view. I've also looked at the churches statement of faith and it doesn't hold a pro-gay view either. Have you guys dealt with these issues before in church? How exactly should they be taken care of?

At the core of the question is how should homosexuality be treated in the church? We are obviously all sinners in need of grace and forgiveness and deliverance from sin. But what happens when the sin is turned around and justified and embraced in the case that I am seeing. I would greatly appreciate your feedback and advice.

 

[WindStaff]

I've been this new church for a couple of months now, which affirms all the fundamentals of the historic christian faith. Yet there are some openly gay individuals and some who hold to a pro-gay agenda, like same-sex marriage. None of the Pastors or leaders at this church, from hearing their preaching and personal fellowship seem to hold this view. I've also looked at the churches statement of faith and it doesn't hold a pro-gay view either. Have you guys dealt with these issues before in church? How exactly should they be taken care of?

At the core of the question is how should homosexuality be treated in the church? We are obviously all sinners in need of grace and forgiveness and deliverance from sin. But what happens when the sin is turned around and justified and embraced in the case that I am seeing. I would greatly appreciate your feedback and advice.

This is what many traditional churches will do- they will let them attend, but they will not welcome them into choir, give testimony, or participate in such ways with the body.

This is because they are tourists in a land which they have not inherited. If they do not adopt the ways of the land, they are nothing more then a foreigner.

Homosexuality cannot be rightfully supported because it is a lifestyle of sin- it is a confirmation of not wanting to let go of the vices of the body and that the soul is unwilling to be obedient.
Now, this can be said of those who smoke and drink, those who sleep around and so forth, but they are things which one will eventually get around to putting down at some point in their lives if they are willing. With homosexuality, however, it has already been declared among them that they will not change, and so the only option is to compromise with them- it is the reason why they are even in a church to begin with, to obtain such.

And this takes away completely the very nature of what Christ's church is intended to maintain, because it's suppose to make disciples of men, not negotiators of disobedience.

 

[Roonwit]

I've been this new church for a couple of months now, which affirms all the fundamentals of the historic christian faith. Yet there are some openly gay individuals and some who hold to a pro-gay agenda, like same-sex marriage. None of the Pastors or leaders at this church, from hearing their preaching and personal fellowship seem to hold this view. I've also looked at the churches statement of faith and it doesn't hold a pro-gay view either. Have you guys dealt with these issues before in church? How exactly should they be taken care of?

At the core of the question is how should homosexuality be treated in the church? We are obviously all sinners in need of grace and forgiveness and deliverance from sin. But what happens when the sin is turned around and justified and embraced in the case that I am seeing. I would greatly appreciate your feedback and advice.

I think the approach has to vary on an individual basis, depending on the circumstances of the case. To illustrate my point, I'll refer to the example of churches that exist in areas where polygamy is common. When polygamous people enter the church, the church has to decide how to respond to them.

In my view, the best response has been from those churches who welcome the people, but require them not to marry any more wives, and also prohibits them from promoting polygamy or holding leadership positions in the church. Requiring them to suddenly divorce all but one of their wives would create a social injustice against the women involved, and unnecessary pain. This solution enables the church to maintain both its stance in favour of monogamy and also its positioning of welcoming all who come from whatever background.

With regard to homosexuality, therefore, it is imperative that the church not give a message that people are unwelcome simply because they feel attracted to people of the same sex, or even because of their having acted on such a feeling. Such people need the gospel just as much as anyone else, and we hope that people who have entered same sex marriages / partnerships will also become Christians. I don't think it should be an entry requirement for such people to dissolve their partnerships. However, they do need to be aware of the church's stance on homosexual partnerships. They need to agree not to promote them either explicitly or implicitly. They also agree that, if for whatever reason their current partnership were to come to an end, they would not seek another same sex partnership. As to whether they should dissolve the partnership, that has to be a matter for the individual concerned before God - I would be opposed to anyone else in the church telling that individual that they ought to dissolve it, or making them feel unwelcome unless they do dissolve it.

If your church leaders are tacitly condoning the promotion of homosexual lifestyles within the church, that would be one of the signs to me that my stay in that church might be drawing towards a close.

Roonwit

 

[God's Child]

Mod Hat On​

This thread has undergone a clean up and has been moved from the Ethics & Morality forum.​

Mod Hat Off​

 

[Bluelion]

If they struggle with it they should be supported in there struggle and not cast out because they slip up or fall back into sin. If they are proud of there sin that is a whole another issue.

Paul spoke of this in 1 cor. if they are bringing it into the church and corrupting the church they are to be removed. There are steps you are to gather two or three witness and go and speak with them of there offense against you, if they have committed one, if they will not listen bring them before the elders of the church if they will not listen they are to be treated as a corrupt tax collector.

If there is no offense against you and they are not corrupting the others in the church, you are to show them great Love, it is by Love they will feel ashamed and repent.

Really no one gives a second that to a man looking at a woman with lust or woman at a man with lust and that is adultery. Don't be a hypocrite.

If they were kissing in the church I would tell them they can not do that it is a sin and to leave until they can control them self. But if they are there in fellowship fellowship with them. Only love and kindness can make them repent.

 

[1watchman]

Right; "if they are bringing it into the church", as was stated, they should be removed. Such behavior is an offense to God. Homosexuality is gross sin.

This is not saying one who has sexual problems of some kind should not come to church; but even then their problem must not be public knowledge for it will cause offense, stumble others, mar worship, etc. There is a difference between one's personal problems and acting on those problems. Our personal problems should be kept to one's self.

 

[now faith]

Just the fact they are in a Church that does not promote this sin,tells me they are seeking justification.

They will not find it,but if approached by others in a Christ like manner our hope is for their salvation.

Condemn the sin and not the sinner,and you may just keep them from Hell.

 

[Hezekiah Holbrooke]

Just the fact they are in a Church that does not promote this sin,tells me they are seeking justification.

They will not find it,but if approached by others in a Christ like manner our hope is for their salvation.

Condemn the sin and not the sinner,and you may just keep them from Hell.

I would have agreed with you a few years ago. Now I say be very very careful.

I believe there will be some tests in the very near future. I can see a same-sex couple coming into a church and attending for a few Sundays and then requesting to be baptized and to join the church. Perhaps, the couple may go as far as to ask the pastor to perform their marriage ceremony there within the church.

If the church denies the baptisms and church membership or even the marriage, I see the ACLU and the Justice Department all over that church and its pastor.

It's coming and coming soon to a church near you. Satan will see to it.

 

[Sovereign Grace]

I would have agreed with you a few years ago. Now I say be very very careful.

I believe there will be some tests in the very near future. I can see a same-sex couple coming into a church and attending for a few Sundays and then requesting to be baptized and to join the church. Perhaps, the couple may go as far as to ask the pastor to perform their marriage ceremony there within the church.

If the church denies the baptisms and church membership or even the marriage, I see the ACLU and the Justice Department all over that church and its pastor.

It's coming and coming soon to a church near you. Satan will see to it.

This all may be true, but as of right now, doesn't the separation of church and state disallow them from suing a constituted church? My church, we have what we call 'Articles of Faith', and one of them condemns homosexuality. But as of now, I am thinking they can't sue a church, if that church has taken the necessary steps to safeguard itself. What I mean is that they have spoken with lawyers and have been given legal advice.

 

[98cwitr]

We have openly gay couples in our congregation. While we dont condemn them we also do not condone their lifestyle either. To my knowledge, our pastor was asked to perform their marriage and she declined.

 

[Metal Minister]

This is what many traditional churches will do- they will let them attend, but they will not welcome them into choir, give testimony, or participate in such ways with the body.

This is because they are tourists in a land which they have not inherited. If they do not adopt the ways of the land, they are nothing more then a foreigner.

Homosexuality cannot be rightfully supported because it is a lifestyle of sin- it is a confirmation of not wanting to let go of the vices of the body and that the soul is unwilling to be obedient.
Now, this can be said of those who smoke and drink, those who sleep around and so forth, but they are things which one will eventually get around to putting down at some point in their lives if they are willing. With homosexuality, however, it has already been declared among them that they will not change, and so the only option is to compromise with them- it is the reason why they are even in a church to begin with, to obtain such.

And this takes away completely the very nature of what Christ's church is intended to maintain, because it's suppose to make disciples of men, not negotiators of disobedience.

QFT

 

[Hupomone10]

I've been this new church for a couple of months now, which affirms all the fundamentals of the historic christian faith. Yet there are some openly gay individuals and some who hold to a pro-gay agenda, like same-sex marriage. None of the Pastors or leaders at this church, from hearing their preaching and personal fellowship seem to hold this view. I've also looked at the churches statement of faith and it doesn't hold a pro-gay view either. Have you guys dealt with these issues before in church? How exactly should they be taken care of?

At the core of the question is how should homosexuality be treated in the church? We are obviously all sinners in need of grace and forgiveness and deliverance from sin. But what happens when the sin is turned around and justified and embraced in the case that I am seeing. I would greatly appreciate your feedback and advice.

I think it is increasingly becoming the case that many pastors who believe homosexual behavior is sin simply are gun-shy about the whole issue. They don't want to put a target on their back.

I understand this, for we are rapidly moving into an environment where we as Christians must indeed be "harmless as doves" but also "wise as serpents." However the down side to this when the pastors are silent or passive on it is that in some instances those who advocate and practice homosexual behavior move in and make themselves at home in the vacuum.

In the short 2 years since I last posted regularly on CF, this stronghold has become like a flash-flood; and for the first time Christians in the U.S. are beginning to lose their jobs, not because they are mistreating or even verbally abusing others, but simply because they believe a particular type of behavior is sin, and have made the mistake of saying or publishing that fact.

Every radical group exhibits a similar agenda that can be described in 3 steps:
1. Acceptance - you must accept my position/behavior
2. Advocacy - it is not enough that you accept me, you must become an advocate for my position.
3. Annihilation - destroy those who disagree.

We are in stage 2 and now are rapidly moving into stage 3 in this country.

My recommendation, my friend, is to read the letters to the 7 churches in Revelation and look for guidance that might apply. There are churches that are commended; there are churches that are chastised; and in all of them there are those who overcome. It is time to be an overcomer, no matter the cost.

God bless,
H.

 

[Avid]

... we as Christians must indeed be "harmless as doves" but also "wise as serpents." However the down side to this when the pastors are silent or passive on it is that in some instances those who advocate and practice homosexual behavior move in and make themselves at home in the vacuum...

Generally, this is a good post, so "Amen" to it.

However, we need to be clear on what it means to be HARMLESS. You may say you are being harmless by not waking your friends in the middle of the night, but if their house is on fire, where is the REAL harm?

 

[Avid]

Just the fact they are in a Church that does not promote this sin,tells me they are seeking justification...

I'd like to think that as well, but too many are seeing if they may have opportunity to corrupt the Church. They may corrupt the ideas of people, making them think it is not all that bad, or they may corrupt the institution by getting the pastor and Church in general to accept their sin.

We need to be on guard, even if there are other sinners there. Each human in their fallen nature tries to find a way to be acceptable, and not be condemned by the Church. They think they are OK if they get the Church to back down from a firm stance against their sin, whether fraud, adultery, drunkenness, lying, theft or homosexuality.

Certainly, getting the Churches to change their position on the sin makes it easier to pass laws that affect other Churches.

 

[Inkfingers]

In the short 2 years since I last posted regularly on CF, this stronghold has become like a flash-flood; and for the first time Christians in the U.S. are beginning to lose their jobs, not because they are mistreating or even verbally abusing others, but simply because they believe a particular type of behavior is sin, and have made the mistake of saying or publishing that fact.

The same is happening here in England; especially as regards the issue of same-sex "marriage", where all businesses (and thus employees and employers) are required to affirm the validity of same-sex "marriage" in their business.

Or to put it another way, none may buy or sell (including sell their labour) unless in doing so they fall down and worship the institution of same-sex "marriage".

It will not be long before court case after court case is brought to drive out of business and work (and thus home, unless you are very rich) those who will not affirm and promote same-sex marriage. To borrow a turn of phrase from the Bible....the time is coming, it is already here....

 

[Brandonspapa]

"Love the sinner, hate the sin." Even though homosexuals should be welcomed in any church, any PDA or flaunting of their lifestyle should not be tolerated. And ministers should preach against all sin, including cohabitation and deviant sexual behavior.

 

[Hupomone10]

Generally, this is a good post, so "Amen" to it.

However, we need to be clear on what it means to be HARMLESS. You may say you are being harmless by not waking your friends in the middle of the night, but if their house is on fire, where is the REAL harm?

Exactly. We are in agreement. My point was more on the wise as serpents part.

 

[Hupomone10]

The same is happening here in England; especially as regards the issue of same-sex "marriage", where all businesses (and thus employees and employers) are required to affirm the validity of same-sex "marriage" in their business...

It will not be long before court case after court case is brought to drive out of business and work (and thus home, unless you are very rich) those who will not affirm and promote same-sex marriage. To borrow a turn of phrase from the Bible....the time is coming, it is already here....

(bolding is mine) Yes, this is Step 2 of the radical agenda.
1. Acceptance
2. Advocacy
3. Annihilation

And for those who will not adhere to step 2, step 3 applies.
As a response, we are to speak the truth in love.

Aside from that, I think we are rapidly moving into an era where many Christians are going to think compromise with and being nice to those who practice homosexual behavior will cause them to like you and leave you alone. To these, rule 40 applies:

Rule 40: "If it seems like someone is out to get you, they are."
(Lero Jethro Gibb's list of rules, NCIS)

 

[Inkfingers]

I think we are rapidly moving into an era where many Christians are going to think compromise with and being nice to those who practice homosexual behavior will cause them to like you and leave you alone.

Indeed.

The choice is already being forced upon us - affirm, or be unemployed. If this isn't the essence of the mark of the beast, what is...

 

[Aldebaran]

Every radical group exhibits a similar agenda that can be described in 3 steps:
1. Acceptance - you must accept my position/behavior
2. Advocacy - it is not enough that you accept me, you must become an advocate for my position.
3. Annihilation - destroy those who disagree.

We are in stage 2 and now are rapidly moving into stage 3 in this country.

I totally agree with your assessment of where we are right now. Even on this message board, especially in the Ethics and Morality sections where nonbelievers make their posts, there are so many people who come here to "fight for the homosexual" and declare the rest of us as bigots, haters, intolerant, etc. while saying homosexuality is perfectly fine and that we are the bad guys. That's exactly what churches should not be allowing to enter their doors. If a gay person wants to attend, fine. If they are there to hear God's word and to learn, fine. If they are there because they feel convicted of sin and are looking to change, fine. But if they are there to try to get into the "enemy's camp" and argue that what they're doing is what's right and that Christian principles are wrong in regards to homosexuality, then they need to be removed from the church. At least on this message board, nonbelievers are sectioned off into their own areas so they aren't able to muddy the waters.