Holiness VS Worldliness

[SaintJoeNow]

The example I want to start with here showing the contrast between holiness and worldiness is of Moses and the people of Israel after God had brought them out of Egypt. Moses tarried long in the mountain with God, and the children of Israel threw a party with a calf idol they made. In their hearts, they turned back to Egypt which symbolizes the world, and later in the desert they complained about eating manna from heaven as they longed for the food of Egypt and in their hearts they were turned back away from God.

The contrast of holiness shown in the face of Moses, who the Israelites had to cover with a veil because His face shined from the glory of God which, so to speak, had rubbed off on him during that time that God had Moses apart with Him in the mountain.

Verses I will cite in this thread, without now naming the chapter and verse, and perhaps not perfectly quoted as I am somewhat cognitively declined and have forgotten the exact verbatim quotes and chapter and verse referrances of the hundreds of passages I memorized in younger years......
"love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him... for all that is in the world, the lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world..."
"frienship with the world is enmity with God"

What is the difference between holiness and worldliness? What makes a person holy?

"without holiness, no man shall see the Lord"

"be ye holy, for I am holy, saith the Lord"

So how can I say I am holy when you can see my faults?
Is there anything I can do to increase holiness?
What is holiness? really? What is it?

Questions? Comments? Snide Remarks?

In Christ,
Joe

 

[mikedsjr]

When a person becomes a child of God, God has clothed them with the holiness of Christ. Christ's righteousness, or His Holiness, becomes the Christians. Thus it can be said we are still sinners, but also Holy in the eyes of God because of Christ.

 

[twin1954]

The example I want to start with here showing the contrast between holiness and worldiness is of Moses and the people of Israel after God had brought them out of Egypt. Moses tarried long in the mountain with God, and the children of Israel threw a party with a calf idol they made. In their hearts, they turned back to Egypt which symbolizes the world, and later in the desert they complained about eating manna from heaven as they longed for the food of Egypt and in their hearts they were turned back away from God.

The contrast of holiness shown in the face of Moses, who the Israelites had to cover with a veil because His face shined from the glory of God which, so to speak, had rubbed off on him during that time that God had Moses apart with Him in the mountain.

Verses I will cite in this thread, without now naming the chapter and verse, and perhaps not perfectly quoted as I am somewhat cognitively declined and have forgotten the exact verbatim quotes and chapter and verse referrances of the hundreds of passages I memorized in younger years......
"love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him... for all that is in the world, the lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world..."
"frienship with the world is enmity with God"

What is the difference between holiness and worldliness? What makes a person holy?

"without holiness, no man shall see the Lord"

"be ye holy, for I am holy, saith the Lord"

So how can I say I am holy when you can see my faults?
Is there anything I can do to increase holiness?
What is holiness? really? What is it?

Questions? Comments? Snide Remarks?

In Christ,
Joe

While most think that the word means purity it is not the primary meaning. The word means separate. It certainly applies to God as separate from us as far as the imagination can go and beyond. But when it comes to created things it means separated unto God for His use and consecrated unto Him. Holy in that sense means that we are His and are for His use.

Certainly the idea of purity does enter into that definition but again it isn't the primary meaning. To be holy unto the Lord is to be separated unto Him for his use and declared holy by God.

But we are none holy in ourselves. All our holiness is of the Lord. My holiness is that holiness which He has given me in Him.

Now it might be good to think on the fact that there are no degrees to holiness or righteousness. You are either holy and righteous or you are not. The slightest taint of sin destroys all righteousness and holiness. Therefore we must rest in the Lord who is our righteousness and our holiness.

Being united to Christ by faith we are complete, holy, righteous and accepted in the Beloved. We can come boldly to the throne of grace without fear and find grace to help in time of need. We find ourselves to be as He is in this world, 1John 4:17. We find that he who would ascend unto the hill of the the Lord, that is into His high and lofty presence, must have clean hands and a pure heart and never to have lifted up his soul unto vanity or sworn deceitfully. Psa. 24:1-4

Our only refuge, hope and acceptance is that we are united to Christ by faith. And having been united to Him we have all and enough. We have enough for God and enough for us. Christ Jesus the Lord is all in all to the believing sinner. Col. 3:11

 

[Avid]

Many scriptures, and many of the preachers of days gone by had something to say about this...

Custom of sinning takes away the sense of it; the course of the world takes away the shame of it.
John Owen (1616−1683) ​

We shall have − nay we already have, a popular, easy going Gospel with no self−sacrifice, no self−surrender, no unhesitating obedience... Truth and error are separated by a line so faint that no one can tell where one ends and the other begins; and sin and sanctity are so akin that wrongdoing is often only an excess of right−doing, "a fall forward."
Arthur T. Pierson (1837−1911)

The devil has three ways by which he makes men seek after him. First, commonly he covers holiness with other names. Secondly, he persuades men that sins are but little. Thirdly, that they may be repented of hereafter.
John Collins (1632−1687)

I John 3
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
4 ¶ Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

We want to be purified as well as pardoned. Justification without sanctification would not be salvation at all. It would call the leper clean, and leave him to die of his disease.
Charles Haddon Spurgeon (1834−1892)

​

Each person must face God with this. Be very sure, and search the scriptures for the correct answer for this.

 

[twin1954]

I realized that I had not dealt with worldliness. Worldliness is to be caught up in the things of the world: the pleasures of sin for a season, the need to fulfill the lust of the eye and the pride of life, the desire to satisfy ones own gratification in whatever our sin tempts us to. Worldliness is to be so caught up in religion that we become self-righteous and cease to know that we are sinners. Worldliness, in a nut shell, is to be self focused.

 

[Emmy]

Dear SaintJoeNow. You had some good replies, and Jesus tells us in
Luke 10: 25-28: " On these two Commandments which Jesus gave us in Matthew 22: 35-40: hang all the Law and the Prophets: The first and great Commandment is: " Love God with all your hearts, with all your souls, and with all your minds. The second is like is: Love your neighbour as yourselves."
To follow Jesus is to be Holy as Jesus is Holy, and Jesus is THE WAY.
Matthew 7: 7-10: tells us: " Ask and you shall receive," we ask God for Love and Joy, then we thank God and share all Love and Joy with our neighbour:
all we know and all we meet, friends and not friends. We keep asking and receiving, then thank God and share all Love and Joy with our neighbour:
Be holy and loving and kind as Jesus is Holy and Loving and always gentle and kind.
The Bible tells us: " Repent and be Born Again," leave all selfishness and unloving, and become as Jesus our Saviour is. The world is selfish and unloving, always full of wishes and wants. We belong to Jesus and follow our
Saviour and Friend, we will be holy as Jesus shows us to be. The Holy Spirit will help and guide us also, let us choose Holiness and leave all worldliness
to the world. We follow our Saviour who is Holy, and change from worldliness
to Holiness. What does God want from us? " be Holy as Jesus is Holy.
I say this with love, SaintJoeNow. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

 

[PrincetonGuy]

When a person becomes a child of God, God has clothed them with the holiness of Christ. Christ's righteousness, or His Holiness, becomes the Christians.

When a person first has saving faith in Christ, he is justified in the sight of God, but he has the responsibility, with the help of the Hoy Spirit, to keep his slate clean. If he sins again, he is once again a sinner in need of repentance.

1 John 3:7. Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous;
8. the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. (NASB, 1995)

1 John 3:7. Little children, let no one deceive you. Everyone who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous.
8. Everyone who commits sin is a child of the devil; for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The Son of God was revealed for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. (NRSV, 1989)

Thus it can be said we are still sinners, but also Holy in the eyes of God because of Christ.

This is not true. God does not have the blood of Jesus in His eyes blinding Him to the sins in Christians. God sees the sins in the lives of Christians—indeed, He has to see them so that He can chastise the Christian and lead him to repentance from those sins. God sees us for what we are—and He sees any sins in our lives for what they are! Indeed, Paul wrote to the Christians in Ephesus.

Eph. 5:1. Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children;
2. and walk in love, just as Christ also loved you and gave Himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma.
3. But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints;
4. and there must be no filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks.
5. For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.
6. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. (NASB, 1995)

1. Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children,
2. and live in love, as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.
3. But fornication and impurity of any kind, or greed, must not even be mentioned among you, as is proper among saints.
4. Entirely out of place is obscene, silly, and vulgar talk; but instead, let there be thanksgiving.
5. Be sure of this, that no fornicator or impure person, or one who is greedy (that is, an idolater), has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
6. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes on those who are disobedient. (NRSV, 1989)

To be holy is to be wholly devoted to God without the slightest trace of worldliness—and that leaves no room for any kind of immorality, impurity, greed, filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting.

 

[twin1954]

When a person first has saving faith in Christ, he is justified in the sight of God, but he has the responsibility, with the help of the Hoy Spirit, to keep his slate clean. If he sins again, he is once again a sinner in need of repentance.

1 John 3:7. Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous;
8. the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. (NASB, 1995)

1 John 3:7. Little children, let no one deceive you. Everyone who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous.
8. Everyone who commits sin is a child of the devil; for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The Son of God was revealed for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. (NRSV, 1989)



This is not true. God does not have the blood of Jesus in His eyes blinding Him to the sins in Christians. God sees the sins in the lives of Christians—indeed, He has to see them so that He can chastise the Christian and lead him to repentance from those sins. God sees us for what we are—and He sees any sins in our lives for what they are! Indeed, Paul wrote to the Christians in Ephesus.

Eph. 5:1. Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children;
2. and walk in love, just as Christ also loved you and gave Himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma.
3. But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints;
4. and there must be no filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks.
5. For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.
6. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. (NASB, 1995)

1. Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children,
2. and live in love, as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.
3. But fornication and impurity of any kind, or greed, must not even be mentioned among you, as is proper among saints.
4. Entirely out of place is obscene, silly, and vulgar talk; but instead, let there be thanksgiving.
5. Be sure of this, that no fornicator or impure person, or one who is greedy (that is, an idolater), has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
6. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes on those who are disobedient. (NRSV, 1989)

To be holy is to be wholly devoted to God without the slightest trace of worldliness—and that leaves no room for any kind of immorality, impurity, greed, filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting.

You would point us to ourselves yet at the same time destroy all hope in ourselves. I suppose that you can make the claim that you are holy in yourself? If you do you are a liar.

God knows of our sin yes but He also knows that sin has been put away by the sacrifice of Christ. Heb. 9:26 He never deals with us as sinners but as saints. If he deals with us as sinners then His wrath must be stirred and His judgment must just which would land us all in everlasting destruction.

 

[SaintJoeNow]

Dear SaintJoeNow. You had some good replies, and Jesus tells us in
Luke 10: 25-28: " On these two Commandments which Jesus gave us in Matthew 22: 35-40: hang all the Law and the Prophets: The first and great Commandment is: " Love God with all your hearts, with all your souls, and with all your minds. The second is like is: Love your neighbour as yourselves."
To follow Jesus is to be Holy as Jesus is Holy, and Jesus is THE WAY.
Matthew 7: 7-10: tells us: " Ask and you shall receive," we ask God for Love and Joy, then we thank God and share all Love and Joy with our neighbour:
all we know and all we meet, friends and not friends. We keep asking and receiving, then thank God and share all Love and Joy with our neighbour:
Be holy and loving and kind as Jesus is Holy and Loving and always gentle and kind.
The Bible tells us: " Repent and be Born Again," leave all selfishness and unloving, and become as Jesus our Saviour is. The world is selfish and unloving, always full of wishes and wants. We belong to Jesus and follow our
Saviour and Friend, we will be holy as Jesus shows us to be. The Holy Spirit will help and guide us also, let us choose Holiness and leave all worldliness
to the world. We follow our Saviour who is Holy, and change from worldliness
to Holiness. What does God want from us? " be Holy as Jesus is Holy.
I say this with love, SaintJoeNow. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

I liked Avid's answer better. He was much more focused on the Biblical concept of holiness. Many people in this world are extremely loving and kind, and live good moral lives walking a straight and narrow line, but that narrow line they follow is on the broad road that leads to destruction in Hell. Being kind and loving is not being holy. I do appreciate your passion for following Jesus, and I'm sure He is able to deliver you safe from Hell.

 

[SaintJoeNow]

I realized that I had not dealt with worldliness. Worldliness is to be caught up in the things of the world: the pleasures of sin for a season, the need to fulfill the lust of the eye and the pride of life, the desire to satisfy ones own gratification in whatever our sin tempts us to. Worldliness is to be so caught up in religion that we become self-righteous and cease to know that we are sinners. Worldliness, in a nut shell, is to be self focused.

I'd like to hear a broader and more detailed description, definition, of "the lust of the eyes", "the lust of the flesh", and the pride of life.

Also, a deeper explanation of what it means that we are told to not love the world or the things that are in the world, and why are they enmity with God, and why He is so strong in saying if we love the world, the love of the Father is not in us.

 

[SaintJoeNow]

You would point us to ourselves yet at the same time destroy all hope in ourselves. I suppose that you can make the claim that you are holy in yourself? If you do you are a liar.

God knows of our sin yes but He also knows that sin has been put away by the sacrifice of Christ. Heb. 9:26 He never deals with us as sinners but as saints. If he deals with us as sinners then His wrath must be stirred and His judgment must just which would land us all in everlasting destruction.

You missed the point. Did you see me making any claim in myself to be holy? Please don't jump the gun on me. I'm asking how we can be holy. God wants us to be holy, how are we going to be holy?

This is not for me to say you are more holy than me, or me more holy than you. This is to ask the question, how can I meet God's demand to be holy. He is very clear and pointed in this command for His people.

"Be ye holy, for I am holy, saith the Lord"

"without holiness, no man shall see the Lord."


Now I want to see the Lord. I know that when I see Him, I shall be like Him because I will see Him as He is. One day I'm going to be perfect forever, but for now God still commands me of things I am not capable of being....

holy and perfect.

The fact that I am bound by sin in this body of death is not an excuse for me to be anything other than holy and anything less than perfect.

"Mercy and truth are met together; righteousness and peace have kissed each other".

What I'm looking for in this thread is a detailed discussion of the meaning of "things of the world" and the difference between loving or being friends with the world and being holy.

 

[PrincetonGuy]

You would point us to ourselves yet at the same time destroy all hope in ourselves.

I point people to Christ and the grace of God by which He has saved us from the power of sin through faith and enabled us to serve Him living holy rather than worldly lives.

I suppose that you can make the claim that you are holy in yourself? If you do you are a liar.

Through faith in Christ and His atonement, every man can and should live a holy life.

God knows of our sin yes but He also knows that sin has been put away by the sacrifice of Christ. Heb. 9:26 He never deals with us as sinners but as saints. If he deals with us as sinners then His wrath must be stirred and His judgment must just which would land us all in everlasting destruction.

Heb:9:24. For Christ did not enter a holy place made with hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us;
25. nor was it that He would offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the holy place year by year with blood that is not his own.
26. Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.

In Hebrews 7-9, the writer teaches the superiority of the new covenant over the old covenant, focusing on what Christ has done as the superior priest. This superior priest, the Lord Christ Jesus, shed His own blood and “died to sin once for all” (Rom. 6:10) that we may die to the sin in our own, personal lives (Rom. 6:2). This dying to the sin in our own, personal lives is our responsibility, and it is accomplished through our identifying, through faith, with the death of Christ on the cross.

Rom. 6:3. Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?
4. Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.

Nonetheless, Christians are admonished to lay aside the old self with all of its sins and worldliness:

Rom. 13:12. The night is almost gone, and the day is near. Therefore let us lay aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light.

Eph. 4: 17. So this I say, and affirm together with the Lord, that you walk no longer just as the Gentiles also walk, in the futility of their mind,
18. being darkened in their understanding, excluded from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardness of their heart;
19. and they, having become callous, have given themselves over to sensuality for the practice of every kind of impurity with greediness.
20. But you did not learn Christ in this way,
21. if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught in Him, just as truth is in Jesus,
22. that, in reference to your former manner of life, you lay aside the old self, which is being corrupted in accordance with the lusts of deceit,
23. and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind,
24. and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth.

Col.3:9. Do not lie to one another, since you laid aside the old self with its evil practices,

Heb. 12:1. Therefore, since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also lay aside every encumbrance and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,
fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

James 1:21. Therefore, putting aside all filthiness and all that remains of wickedness, in humility receive the word implanted, which is able to save your souls.

1 Peter 2:1. Therefore, putting aside all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander,
2. like newborn babies, long for the pure milk of the word, so that by it you may grow in respect to salvation,
3. if you have tasted the kindness of the Lord.

1 Peter 4:1. Therefore, since Christ has suffered in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same purpose, because he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin,
2. so as to live the rest of the time in the flesh no longer for the lusts of men, but for the will of God.

(All quotations from Scripture are from the NASB, 1995 updated edition)

 

[SaintJoeNow]

When a person first has saving faith in Christ, he is justified in the sight of God, but he has the responsibility, with the help of the Hoy Spirit, to keep his slate clean. If he sins again, he is once again a sinner in need of repentance.

1 John 3:7. Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous;
8. the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. (NASB, 1995)

1 John 3:7. Little children, let no one deceive you. Everyone who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous.
8. Everyone who commits sin is a child of the devil; for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The Son of God was revealed for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. (NRSV, 1989)



This is not true. God does not have the blood of Jesus in His eyes blinding Him to the sins in Christians. God sees the sins in the lives of Christians—indeed, He has to see them so that He can chastise the Christian and lead him to repentance from those sins. God sees us for what we are—and He sees any sins in our lives for what they are! Indeed, Paul wrote to the Christians in Ephesus.

Eph. 5:1. Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children;
2. and walk in love, just as Christ also loved you and gave Himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma.
3. But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints;
4. and there must be no filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks.
5. For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.
6. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. (NASB, 1995)

1. Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children,
2. and live in love, as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.
3. But fornication and impurity of any kind, or greed, must not even be mentioned among you, as is proper among saints.
4. Entirely out of place is obscene, silly, and vulgar talk; but instead, let there be thanksgiving.
5. Be sure of this, that no fornicator or impure person, or one who is greedy (that is, an idolater), has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
6. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes on those who are disobedient. (NRSV, 1989)

To be holy is to be wholly devoted to God without the slightest trace of worldliness—and that leaves no room for any kind of immorality, impurity, greed, filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting.

I think another way to be holy would be to use a "holy" Bible and burn unholy, fraudulent imposter Bibles such as NASB, NIV, RSV....but that's not the focus of this thread and I'll try to avoid that debate here.

You mentioned "covetousness" and "fornication" as things that are unholy, but offered no explanation of the verses of the OP, referring to the "lust of the eyes" "the lust of the flesh" (you did cover that on one point with fornication, but I think the implication of "lust of the flesh" is much broader than carnal sexual indulgences) and "the pride of life".

Of course fornication and covetousness is sin against God, but what "love not the world, neither the things that are in the world" seems to be much broader in scope.

I'm looking for more of a discussion of the difference between holiness and worldliness....loving God VS loving the world. How many times have I (I admit it, I'm guilty) said "I love my car" or "I love my computer" or I love this or I love that? Are those not things of the world I am commanded not to love?

Go ahead and quote from your unholy perversions of God's Word if you must. You don't need to show what perversion it is by designation of NIV or NASB or anything like that. I can tell if you are quoting the holy Bible because that's the only one I read and the only one I use. You know which version that is, you know which one I'm talking about. It's the one hated by the world which loves the fake unholy versions. But you love those versions, so go ahead and use them.

 

[mikedsjr]

When a person first has saving faith in Christ, he is justified in the sight of God, but he has the responsibility, with the help of the Hoy Spirit, to keep his slate clean. If he sins again, he is once again a sinner in need of repentance.

So do you view the notion Jesus died for past, present and future sins as wrong?

 

[SaintJoeNow]

Dr. S. Franklin Logsdon, author and writer of the NASB preface, showed an increase of holiness in his life with this statement: "I must under God renounce every attachment to the New American Standard Version....I'm afraid I'm in trouble with the Lord....We laid the groundwork, I wrote the format; I helped interview some of the translators; I sat with the translators; I wrote the preface...I'm in trouble; I can't refute these arguments (referring to G. A. Riplinger's book, "New Age Bible Versions"); it's wrong; it's terribly wrong, it's frighteningly wrong; and what am I going to do about it?....you can say the Authorized Version (KJV) is absolutely correct).

Here is a wonderful example of how one Godly man saw his sin in supporting a fraudulent version of God's Word and he was fearfully repentant and showed it by doing a new work of righteousness by renouncing the fraudulent version he helped to create and supporting the King James Authorized Version as the Word of God.


But really, I want to focus this thread on the meaning of loving the world and the things of the world other than false versions of God's word.

 

[Avid]

So do you view the notion Jesus died for past, present and future sins as wrong?

You should show a verse for what you believe. If this is in the scriptures, it would be an important part of the discussion.

Romans 3
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
​

I would say to Let God be true, but every man a Liar. (Rom.3:4) If any of us say something other than what God says, let us see it in that light.

 

[twin1954]

You missed the point. Did you see me making any claim in myself to be holy? Please don't jump the gun on me. I'm asking how we can be holy. God wants us to be holy, how are we going to be holy?

This is not for me to say you are more holy than me, or me more holy than you. This is to ask the question, how can I meet God's demand to be holy. He is very clear and pointed in this command for His people.

"Be ye holy, for I am holy, saith the Lord"

"without holiness, no man shall see the Lord."


Now I want to see the Lord. I know that when I see Him, I shall be like Him because I will see Him as He is. One day I'm going to be perfect forever, but for now God still commands me of things I am not capable of being....

holy and perfect.

The fact that I am bound by sin in this body of death is not an excuse for me to be anything other than holy and anything less than perfect.

"Mercy and truth are met together; righteousness and peace have kissed each other".

What I'm looking for in this thread is a detailed discussion of the meaning of "things of the world" and the difference between loving or being friends with the world and being holy.

First of all my response was to PrincetonGuy not you. He apparently advocates a perfectionism. Perfectionism is heretical and goes against both the Scriptures and experience.

If you want to know how you can be holy it is simple: believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. Rest in Him and His holiness. My holiness isn't worth mentioning but His is all that God requires of me and my only holiness. My whole hope is in Him.

(Isa 26:12) LORD, thou wilt ordain peace for us: for thou also hast wrought all our works in us.


(Jer 23:5) Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.

(Jer 23:6) In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.


(Jer 33:16) In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, The LORD our righteousness.





That old man the flesh is not destroyed while we are in this body of death and sin taints all that we do in it. Rom. 7:15-25, Gal. 5:17 This stinking corpse we live in now does not need to be taken to the hospital of religion to be cured it must be taken to the cross to be crucified.

(Gal 2:20) I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

(Gal 2:21) I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.


To seek to be or think that you are holy by anything you do is to frustrate the grace of God and deny the death of Christ.

We cannot nor do we become progressively more holy. How can purity and perfection become more pure and perfect?


Now lets not confuse holiness and growth in grace and knowledge. We do grow and daily lean more on Him who is all in all. Sin does not have dominion over us, that is it no longer rules us and drives our passions. Rom. 6:14 But that is not holiness or sanctification.

You seem to want some complicated formula by which we can consecrate ourselves and separate ourselves from the world. That is what religion does. It gives you a system, a formula or a principle by which you can accomplish that which is already done for you and in you by Christ through faith.

By all means live as holy and righteously as it is possible in you but do nat claim that it is holiness or righteousness. That holiness without which no man shall see the Lord is Christ in you the hope of glory, Col. 1: 27

 

[Avid]

I'd like to hear a broader and more detailed description, definition, of "the lust of the eyes", "the lust of the flesh", and the pride of life...

Heard an excellent sermon on that about 30 years ago. It explained what these were, how the first woman was tempted with these in the garden, how Adam the First failed on each of these tests, how all of us have failed in all of these, but that Jesus Christ was tempted, and DID NOT FAIL on these.

"the lust of the flesh"
Taste, feeling and an indulgence of the senses of our fleshly body is the first and most obvious example of these. It is part of being alive, but is ALWAYS taken to an unholy extent.

As we go through this life, we add different types of lusts. As we discover that there are foods that are difficult or expensive to obtain, and tastes that are difficult to achieve, we define our favorites a different way. As we discover a feeling we like from intoxicants or other substances that alter our perception of reality, we add these things to our list of things we crave. Smoking and drinking are worldwide favorites.

Other fleshly pleasures are added as our bodies mature, and a discovery of things God created in us for the furtherance and betterment of mankind are approached with a lust and craving to the point of absurdity. For some, these must needs be approached in the perversity and depravity of the sinful, fallen human nature.

Galatians 5
24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
​

Seems there are moral battles fought throughout history to spare societies from the downward spiral created by rampant lusts that are given free expression. Laws and standards of behavior are established specifically for this reason. Societies throughout history have been destroyed by God when these lusts rule in the relationships within the society.

"the lust of the eyes"
When man begins to see things differently than he did as a babe, he sees how useful it is to KNOW things, and be regarded as the person who KNOWS. The Apostle Paul warned that we need wisdom, because simply having knowledge only serves to puff up the EGO.

St.Joe, this seems to be the lust to SEE, and a lust to possess knowledge. It includes all types of things that can be seen or known. There is an area that is attached to other types of lusts, and there is the area of this that merely puffs up the person who knows something others do not. It is a reason why, for some people, the most important thing is to be the FIRST PERSON to reveal some news or information. It drives a whole industry, and is the basis for who wins in certain competition. Words are adapted for this (get the scoop on the latest events or trends...)

Acts 17
21 (For all the Athenians and strangers which were there spent their time in nothing else, but either to tell, or to hear some new thing.)
​

Absent a work of grace from God, we see this can rule the person's life.

"the pride of life"
When man has explored the many and diverse lusts that the world and things that appeal to the senses that this existence offers, he is attuned to the lust for power and pride. He needs the things that make him feel better than others. He must be more powerful. The love of money feeds that lust, as the accumulation of wealth has the potential of providing PRIDE in the heart of a person. That wealth can be used in ways we see too many times these days, and were prevalent in the days of Solomon. He wrote of how a bribe can make things go smoothly for you in the courts and with other government agencies.

A local restauranteur was very frustrated that he could not get permits to move his restaurant to his own commercial property. He had all the necessary documents, and systems, but the city would not approve it. I said that he had not greased the right PALMS. There were hands extended (in a figurative sense) that he had not put money into. He seemed to have a revelation of it as I said that.

St.Joe, the system of the world (kosmos - "love not the world") has its rules and people get and wield power (much or little) to make themselves important. The ultimate lust for the pride of life is to be seen as good or righteous.

Acts 8
20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.
21 Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.
22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.
23 For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.
24 Then answered Simon, and said, Pray ye to the Lord for me, that none of these things which ye have spoken come upon me.
​

Notice how Simon did not ask to be made right in the sight of God, but simply that he not be punished for his sin? St.Joe, you have seen that in people. We all have. The problem is when we think it is OK to be that way, and still consider ourselves Christians. Churches in general could identify this as a cause of many problems, and why they accept so many people as members who later cause great difficulty for them!

One of the most powerful men in this world's system was brought low by accusations from evidence, and this past executive stated on national TV, "Well, I'm not a crook!" His status of being good and righteous was all he seemed to have left of his pride at that point. Even that was soon proven to be a false righteousness.

There is a great deal to be said about how man always fails in this (as long as he is ruled by self,) how Adam and Eve failed in these things specifically, how Jesus Christ was tempted with these specifically by Satan himself, and came out victorious.

If you like, I'll make another post with those issues addressed. Thanks for your patience while reading this quick treatment of the subject.

 

[SaintJoeNow]

Ok, since conversation seems to be slowing down a bit.......some things about holiness.

It seems everybody is agreed that holiness is about God's separation from the world, that He is above it all and blameless for all of the world's problems. As His people, He owns us to do with us as He pleases, so He makes us holy by His presence. I believe that's what happened to Moses when God called him up into the mountain to give him the ten commandments. Moses became so holy from being apart from the rest of the world with God that his face shined with a light which made him dreadful for the people who had forsaken God to create an idol calf and throw a party dancing naked. They had turned so unholy while Moses was with God being holy in obedience to God, they had to cover Moses' face with a veil. If they had been fasting and praying themselves, consecrating themselves in prayer for Moses' safe return from the mountain, maybe they would have been shining like Moses when he came down from the mountain and they would not have been so afraid of Moses' face which glowed with God's holiness.

Comments? Questions? Snide remarks?

For thought, I want to again refer to the passages mentioned in the OP:

Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world....the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life.. (not an exact quote, cognitive decline has robbed me of the multitude of chapter and verse references with perfect punctuation from memory of my younger years)

Friendship with the world is enmity with God

"if they hated me, they will hate you also" (Jesus)

If any will live godly (isn't that the same as practicing and pursuing personal holiness?) in Christ Jesus, he will suffer persecution.

 

[SaintJoeNow]

Heard an excellent sermon on that about 30 years ago. It explained what these were, how the first woman was tempted with these in the garden, how Adam the First failed on each of these tests, how all of us have failed in all of these, but that Jesus Christ was tempted, and DID NOT FAIL on these.

"the lust of the flesh"
Taste, feeling and an indulgence of the senses of our fleshly body is the first and most obvious example of these. It is part of being alive, but is ALWAYS taken to an unholy extent.

As we go through this life, we add different types of lusts. As we discover that there are foods that are difficult or expensive to obtain, and tastes that are difficult to achieve, we define our favorites a different way. As we discover a feeling we like from intoxicants or other substances that alter our perception of reality, we add these things to our list of things we crave. Smoking and drinking are worldwide favorites.

Other fleshly pleasures are added as our bodies mature, and a discovery of things God created in us for the furtherance and betterment of mankind are approached with a lust and craving to the point of absurdity. For some, these must needs be approached in the perversity and depravity of the sinful, fallen human nature.

Galatians 5
24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
​

Seems there are moral battles fought throughout history to spare societies from the downward spiral created by rampant lusts that are given free expression. Laws and standards of behavior are established specifically for this reason. Societies throughout history have been destroyed by God when these lusts rule in the relationships within the society.

"the lust of the eyes"
When man begins to see things differently than he did as a babe, he sees how useful it is to KNOW things, and be regarded as the person who KNOWS. The Apostle Paul warned that we need wisdom, because simply having knowledge only serves to puff up the EGO.

St.Joe, this seems to be the lust to SEE, and a lust to possess knowledge. It includes all types of things that can be seen or known. There is an area that is attached to other types of lusts, and there is the area of this that merely puffs up the person who knows something others do not. It is a reason why, for some people, the most important thing is to be the FIRST PERSON to reveal some news or information. It drives a whole industry, and is the basis for who wins in certain competition. Words are adapted for this (get the scoop on the latest events or trends...)

Acts 17
21 (For all the Athenians and strangers which were there spent their time in nothing else, but either to tell, or to hear some new thing.)
​

Absent a work of grace from God, we see this can rule the person's life.

"the pride of life"
When man has explored the many and diverse lusts that the world and things that appeal to the senses that this existence offers, he is attuned to the lust for power and pride. He needs the things that make him feel better than others. He must be more powerful. The love of money feeds that lust, as the accumulation of wealth has the potential of providing PRIDE in the heart of a person. That wealth can be used in ways we see too many times these days, and were prevalent in the days of Solomon. He wrote of how a bribe can make things go smoothly for you in the courts and with other government agencies.

A local restauranteur was very frustrated that he could not get permits to move his restaurant to his own commercial property. He had all the necessary documents, and systems, but the city would not approve it. I said that he had not greased the right PALMS. There were hands extended (in a figurative sense) that he had not put money into. He seemed to have a revelation of it as I said that.

St.Joe, the system of the world (kosmos - "love not the world") has its rules and people get and wield power (much or little) to make themselves important. The ultimate lust for the pride of life is to be seen as good or righteous.

Acts 8
20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.
21 Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.
22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.
23 For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.
24 Then answered Simon, and said, Pray ye to the Lord for me, that none of these things which ye have spoken come upon me.
​

Notice how Simon did not ask to be made right in the sight of God, but simply that he not be punished for his sin? St.Joe, you have seen that in people. We all have. The problem is when we think it is OK to be that way, and still consider ourselves Christians. Churches in general could identify this as a cause of many problems, and why they accept so many people as members who later cause great difficulty for them!

One of the most powerful men in this world's system was brought low by accusations from evidence, and this past executive stated on national TV, "Well, I'm not a crook!" His status of being good and righteous was all he seemed to have left of his pride at that point. Even that was soon proven to be a false righteousness.

There is a great deal to be said about how man always fails in this (as long as he is ruled by self,) how Adam and Eve failed in these things specifically, how Jesus Christ was tempted with these specifically by Satan himself, and came out victorious.

If you like, I'll make another post with those issues addressed. Thanks for your patience while reading this quick treatment of the subject.

I hope others here will be patient to read your post through, because it is the first good discussion of what the Bible means by "the world" Ecclesiastes 3:11 says "....... he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end."

Here it says "the world" is set in my heart and it prevents me from fully understanding God. For my own desire of holiness, if I am not disciplined to reach for more holiness, I am going to slide along with the world because it's in my heart. It's my nature to be proud, thinking I have something I can stand on in myself. This is the dilemma of lost people. They refuse to believe Hell is a real place of eternal torment for sinners in preference of believing they have the right to exist outside of Hell as long as they live with the assumed proof of this mistake being the fact that they exist outside of the fire of Hell now. Pride is always self-justifying, and God can never be anything but against it because He is holy and self-justification would deny His right to rule over His creation and all the creatures He created, and His right to rule against His creatures who elevate themselves in pride.

Questions, Comments, Snide remarks?


Did everybody except Avid fall asleep on me here? Avid made some great illustrations of what the world is and how it tempts us to walk in unholiness; worldliness. Hopefully some others will pitch in, but feel free to post some more if you like Mr. Avid. I'd like to see other's comments or posts before I comment in detail on your post Mr. Avid. They did make some good points about love being compatible with holiness and Princeton made some good points from bad versions about practical holiness. I hope I didn't scare him off with my comments about unholy versions. Tall made some good comments too, but I really want to see more from others like you in talking about what "the world" is, and how the things in it are against God, and why friendship with it is enmity with God.

Everybody seems to have a pretty good idea of holiness, but only you Mr. Avid have given a good detailed explanation of things of the world.