Holiness Pentecostals: Why Does Everyone Hate Them?

[FuegoPentecostes]

If you're not familiar with the term "holiness" you may be familiar with "legalistic" or "extremist". They are a small and shrinking group of Pentecostals that still preach the Word of God with power, authority, and fire to all whether people like it or not. They believe in HOLINESS - without which no one will see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14) They believe salvation is obtained freely, not by works, however true salvation will undoubtedly bring forth good works and obedience to the Lord, and that true repentance is a necessary part of genuinely accepting Jesus and making Him the Lord of your life. They believe God HATES sin, so much that He destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah for it, so much that He sent His son to clean us of it, and so much that nothing unclean will enter into Heaven. They believe through prayer and fasting God will hear us and day by day sanctify us more and more, to the point where we are no longer voluntarily sinning (and that doesn't come forth from 10 or 15 minutes prayers, either.) No we are not perfect, however God has a commandment for all His people: Be Holy as I am Holy.

I find it sad and quite frankly disgusting that the majority of liberal Pentecostals these days despise Holiness Pentecostals so much. In case you didn't know, each and every original Pentecostal denomination (Church of God, Assemblies of God, etc) was at some point HOLINESS. Yes, one of those legalistic bunch of folk. Almost all major Pentecostal denominations are now liberal, and have forgotten about holiness. They are preaching a lukewarm message to lukewarm believers. They are people who go to church on Sunday, maybe another day during the week, and sin in days between as if it is no big deal.

I see many people write on these forums about how cold the church is. There's no more fire. Things are changing so much, what's going on. I have the answer - it is because SIN is running RAMPANT throughout the church and the people in the altars are doing NOTHING at all about it. Worldliness has entered and made itself quite comfortable WITHIN THE HOLY CHURCH OF THE LORD. The Holy Spirit does not dwell in DIRTY vessels. You want to know why the tounges are ceasing? You want to know why church attendance is down? You want to know why there's no more shouting, dancing, no more true manifestations of the Spirit except for a silly "revival" meeting once every 10 years? It is because the church has abandoned HOLINESS. Pastors have ABANDONED the true message of the Bible - yes Jesus is the only way to salvation, yes it is obtained freely, yes there are wonderful promises for His followers, but they are only talking about the God of love and have forgotten His other half . . . He is also a CONSUMING FIRE. He HATES sin. He sent Jesus, He sent the Holy Spirit so we could finally live according to His will without following the law. He does not want us sinning, and yes, when we as BELIEVERS sin it is a VERY big deal.

I would just like to take the opportunity to salute all the holiness pastors, evangelists, preachers, etc out there that have not coward down to the people. That have not covered up some parts of the Bible and emphasized others, that have not changed the message just to please the people.

I am making an urgent plea here . . . please, church, let us return to holiness. Let us stop making the BIBLE conform to the people, and let the PEOPLE CONFORM TO THE PERFECT, INFALLIBLE WORD OF GOD!

 

[stormdancer0]

Holiness is always threatening to those who want salvation for free with no requirements. But holiness has always been a requirement of God. Like it or not.

 

[Andrea411]

Holiness is always threatening to those who want salvation for free with no requirements. But holiness has always been a requirement of God. Like it or not.

I don't hate Holiness pentecostals at all. Salvation is a free gift. God said so….

the wording 'requirements' is where we might differ. Hopefully its just semantics, our righteousness is like filthy rags thrown at the cross… we are righteous bc of the blood of Christ. If we walk holy it is bc of Christ within us and bc we follow Him…..

God bless, andrea

 

[FuegoPentecostes]

I don't hate Holiness pentecostals at all. Salvation is a free gift. God said so….

the wording 'requirements' is where we might differ. Hopefully its just semantics, our righteousness is like filthy rags thrown at the cross… we are righteous bc of the blood of Christ. If we walk holy it is bc of Christ within us and bc we follow Him…..

God bless, andrea

Many people believe that holiness is people simply being self-righteous, but what you said is completely true. I agree with stormdancer that holiness is a requirement by God, but it is not by any means attained with our own strength or works. Jesus saves us, the Holy Spirit sanctifies us, it is only made possible through the Holy Spirit that anyone may live a life in holiness. God gets all the glory and it is always His grace we praise Him for, He is why we are going to heaven.

That being said, many people after getting "saved" do not desire to live in holiness or leave their old worldly selves. That is where the problem lies. If we want to live in a life of holiness, God will work with us and do the work in us that we may get there if we work with Him and truly seek it.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

OR maybe the "Old Pentecostal Holiness" wasn't ever REALLY "Holiness" at all.

 

[dragongunner]

OR maybe the "Old Pentecostal Holiness" wasn't ever REALLY "Holiness" at all.

I was in a "Holiness" pentecostal church for many yrs. And I can say we were hated by many.....It was great until I began to mature and see that what "some" call "holiness" was not holiness....it was self righteous legalism.....Mens hair had to be cut just right, shouldn't watch or have a tv, no jewelry, woman's sleeves and mens sleeves all the way down to the wrist, dresses only for woman....its all "holiness" you know...and if you were divorced, no matter what the reason you had to stay single the rest of your lives.....I can go on but the burdens are too great. Jesus said His burden is light....but some pastors feel obligated to step in and add to the weight. We had healings, miracles, even saw a young teenage girl get delivered from demons, still love that pastor where ever he is, but in "holiness" it was not really holiness, and that fell short of the truth......we should be all seeking the Truth and Holiness.....not a false imitation, that will only drown a church to death. I do agree that many churches, of all kinds are becoming more and more lukewarm......Actually, it was the Methedist that started the "Holiness" message. I was one as a child...and look where that denomination is today.....the Methodist founders would not even recognize them today.

 

[Purge187]

I was in a "Holiness" pentecostal church for many yrs. And I can say we were hated by many.....It was great until I began to mature and see that what "some" call "holiness" was not holiness....it was self righteous legalism.....Mens hair had to be cut just right, shouldn't watch or have a tv, no jewelry, woman's sleeves and mens sleeves all the way down to the wrist, dresses only for woman....its all "holiness" you know...and if you were divorced, no matter what the reason you had to stay single the rest of your lives.....I can go on but the burdens are too great. Jesus said His burden is light....but some pastors feel obligated to step in and add to the weight. We had healings, miracles, even saw a young teenage girl get delivered from demons, still love that pastor where ever he is, but in "holiness" it was not really holiness, and that fell short of the truth......we should be all seeking the Truth and Holiness.....not a false imitation, that will only drown a church to death. I do agree that many churches, of all kinds are becoming more and more lukewarm......Actually, it was the Methedist that started the "Holiness" message. I was one as a child...and look where that denomination is today.....the Methodist founders would not even recognize them today.

Here's a great video that deals with exactly this:

[PART 3] Judgemental Christian (pentecostal) Legalism Exposed - YouTube

Are people actually suggesting that God's grace is so weak and fragile that it can be lessened if we wear jewelry or if a woman cuts her hair? Give Him more credit than that, folks.

 

[stormdancer0]

I don't hate Holiness pentecostals at all. Salvation is a free gift. God said so….

the wording 'requirements' is where we might differ. Hopefully its just semantics, our righteousness is like filthy rags thrown at the cross… we are righteous bc of the blood of Christ. If we walk holy it is bc of Christ within us and bc we follow Him…..

God bless, andrea

What I mean is that we cannot just proclaim belief in Christ and be done with it. We have to not just believe, but follow Christ. Even the demons believe in Christ. They just don't follow Him.

By Holiness, I mean that we are following Christ, living as He would have us live. We have to have God in our hearts. Mental assent is not enough. Our hearts have to be involved.

IOW, if your life and attitude don't change over time, it is likely that your state of salvation didn't change. God loves us just like we are, but also loves us too much to leave us like that. If He is in you, He changes you.

Holiness is cooperation with God in that change.

 

[Andrea411]

What I mean is that we cannot just proclaim belief in Christ and be done with it. We have to not just believe, but follow Christ. Even the demons believe in Christ. They just don't follow Him.

By Holiness, I mean that we are following Christ, living as He would have us live. We have to have God in our hearts. Mental assent is not enough. Our hearts have to be involved.

IOW, if your life and attitude don't change over time, it is likely that your state of salvation didn't change. God loves us just like we are, but also loves us too much to leave us like that. If He is in you, He changes you.

Holiness is cooperation with God in that change.

I believe in holiness, I don't have many friends who wouldn't. The question would be how do we attain holiness, does it have anything to do with the length of your hair or if you wear the clothes that the dominate cultures considers appropriately modest. I wear slacks, I don't wear men's pants anymore than Jesus wore a woman's dress.... I don't think we can obtain holiness by our clothing or our denomination. For that matter the whole theology thing is kinda ridiculous when you realize there was no NT for hundreds of years. Most couldn't read for a thousand years.
I think the Lord knows who if walking in faith and who is not.... its not a denomination or a theological statement but a matter of the heart.

God bless, andrea

 

[iambren]

It may be that it is being clumped with the UPC church which believes the absolute performance to go to heaven as the triple: repentance,speaking in tongues,and being baptized in the name of Jesus only.

 

[Purge187]

It may be that it is being clumped with the UPC church which believes the absolute performance to go to heaven as the triple: repentance,speaking in tongues,and being baptized in the name of Jesus only.

To be fair, I'm currently attending a UPCI church, and the Bishop gave an analogy at the end of the first sermon I'd heard from him in which he basically said that no-one was gonna be watching over our shoulders to see if we ever spoke in tongues, or turn people away for wearing jewelry. The holiness standards seem to be preferences instead of mandates at this place.

Holiness is a process that God accomplishes through us when we stay anchored in the Gospel. It doesn't happen overnight. I speak from experience when I say that bad things happen to your mind and soul if you allow yourself to be convinced that God has certain "deadlines" in mind for you to attain holiness in a particular area of your life.

 

[ToBeBlessed]

I was in a "Holiness" pentecostal church for many yrs. And I can say we were hated by many.....It was great until I began to mature and see that what "some" call "holiness" was not holiness....it was self righteous legalism.....Mens hair had to be cut just right, shouldn't watch or have a tv, no jewelry, woman's sleeves and mens sleeves all the way down to the wrist, dresses only for woman....its all "holiness" you know...and if you were divorced, no matter what the reason you had to stay single the rest of your lives.....I can go on but the burdens are too great. Jesus said His burden is light....but some pastors feel obligated to step in and add to the weight. We had healings, miracles, even saw a young teenage girl get delivered from demons, still love that pastor where ever he is, but in "holiness" it was not really holiness, and that fell short of the truth......we should be all seeking the Truth and Holiness.....not a false imitation, that will only drown a church to death. I do agree that many churches, of all kinds are becoming more and more lukewarm......Actually, it was the Methedist that started the "Holiness" message. I was one as a child...and look where that denomination is today.....the Methodist founders would not even recognize them today.

The holiness people I knew never seemed smiled, looked miserable and after a while closed themselves off to their own church. And don't even try to have a conversation over doctrine. They are mean people who I never saw love from. They were strict to the point they put their feelings, compassion, empathy aside and really didn't seem very human anymore.

It turns very controlling. And the way they talk of their paster or brother so and so, sister so and so, you would think they just met the Apostle Paul.

Bad news!

 

[stormdancer0]

I believe in holiness, I don't have many friends who wouldn't. The question would be how do we attain holiness, does it have anything to do with the length of your hair or if you wear the clothes that the dominate cultures considers appropriately modest. I wear slacks, I don't wear men's pants anymore than Jesus wore a woman's dress.... I don't think we can obtain holiness by our clothing or our denomination. For that matter the whole theology thing is kinda ridiculous when you realize there was no NT for hundreds of years. Most couldn't read for a thousand years.
I think the Lord knows who if walking in faith and who is not.... its not a denomination or a theological statement but a matter of the heart.

God bless, andrea

I think "Holiness" churches used to concentrate on outer holiness, whereas now, a lot think about more inner holiness. Though, the outer holiness would probably come automatically with the inner.

I am a Holiness pastor, except I preach inner holiness.

 

[ltwin]

I find it sad and quite frankly disgusting that the majority of liberal Pentecostals these days despise Holiness Pentecostals so much. In case you didn't know, each and every original Pentecostal denomination (Church of God, Assemblies of God, etc) was at some point HOLINESS. Yes, one of those legalistic bunch of folk. Almost all major Pentecostal denominations are now liberal, and have forgotten about holiness. They are preaching a lukewarm message to lukewarm believers. They are people who go to church on Sunday, maybe another day during the week, and sin in days between as if it is no big deal.

To be fair, you can go to a holiness church, look like you go to a holiness church, talk like you go to a holiness church, and in public act like you go to a holiness church and still you can sin everyday of the week.

The problem that "liberal" Pentecostal churches have with old line holiness churches is that, often (not in every case but in many of them), what they are preaching as "holy" and what they condemn as "sin" is completely wrong. They make arbitrary rules about what fashions, apparel, and hairstyles are "holy" based on their own opinions and Scripture verses taken out of context.

They selectively cull the Levitical law for rules and regulations often to hammer people over the head with, but if it's something they don't want to do they ignore it and say that that's Old Testament stuff that doesn't apply to the church today.

They take practices, concepts, and attitudes of Western culture that used to be common 2, 3, 4, or 5 generations ago but are now considered by many to be old fashioned and out of date and they raise these up as immutable, eternal standards of behavior that no man may question.

I'm sorry, but just because something was practiced by my grandparents does not make it holy. Just because they dressed a certain way at Azusa Street does not mean I have to dress like them. Just because some movies are bad, does not mean that I need you to forbid me from watching movies or going to a highschool dance or whatever else you feel the need to prohibit me from doing.

They take the story of Samson and say "it's the type of a fallen church and fallen woman; when a woman cuts her hair she loses her power." I have yet had it explained to me why they feel the need to bash women over the head with this biblical episode but the men who preach this never feel the need to grow their own hair out long as a symbol of their own relationship with God. It's quite ridiculous.

Simply put, some (again not all) old time holiness churches have created their own traditions and have chained up the people of God in man-made traditions. They have bound and imprisoned people in fear, condemnation, and judgment. It's wrong and they should be ashamed and repent.

There is a serious problem when a woman (who is saved, sanctified, and filled with the Holy Spirit, a prayer warrior, and someone who loves God and other people) can walk into a "holiness church" and feel condemnation, prejudice, and abuse by others in this so-called church because she has short hair, a touch of make-up, and wears dress pants.

It's legalism, traditionalism, and bondage. Simply put.

 

[ToBeBlessed]

We can all become very puffed up within ourselves on almost anything we are doing for the Lord. To strive for holiness in itself is good, however with anything when we count on our own strength and feel that we know the way, it limits the things that God can do in our lives because we are off doing our own thing. This is a trap that most Christians have fallen into in one area or another (not related to holiness).

Within holiness communities, it becomes a 'keeping up with the Jones' type of thing, but in reverse.

They are judging their own people in reverse and it is a culture of better. As we know from the Pharisees, many things 'seem' holy, however it is in our hearts that we are sanctified with the Holy Spirit. When we involve men and put to much on the appearance of something or lack their of, we walk a slippery slope of what we do for appearance and what we do for God.

After years in that community, I believe, that the lines start to become blurred. It takes a very strong person to be true to their heart and not fall into the trap of ones ego.

 

[dayhiker]

I never have attended a holiness church. From the people I've meet who attended them I knew I wanted to stay away from them. Not because I didn't enjoy talking to them but because I never felt the Holy Spirit telling me to live the way they did.

3 times in my Christian the zeal I had for the Lord lead me to move toward legalism to prove to God I wanted him more than anything. The result each time was the Holy Spirit pulled away from me not closer. If I went to a holiness church I'd be tempted to accept their standard of holiness and I'm miss out on God's Spirit working in my life. Well, that's not worth it. Christ was made unto me righteousness and holiness.

 

[ToBeBlessed]

I never have attended a holiness church. From the people I've meet who attended them I knew I wanted to stay away from them. Not because I didn't enjoy talking to them but because I never felt the Holy Spirit telling me to live the way they did.

3 times in my Christian the zeal I had for the Lord lead me to move toward legalism to prove to God I wanted him more than anything. The result each time was the Holy Spirit pulled away from me not closer. If I went to a holiness church I'd be tempted to accept their standard of holiness and I'm miss out on God's Spirit working in my life. Well, that's not worth it. Christ was made unto me righteousness and holiness.

 

[ToBeBlessed]

[staff deletion of quoted post]

The thing I have come to realize is that even after we are born again or become Christians, the Holy Spirit only works in our lives if that is what we desire. We are made in the image of God in that we have free will. Many stray from God and may or may not want to come back into communion with Him.

Of course they still say they are saved or born again because they do not want to face the fact that they have strayed from their own faith. Some people lie to themselves. Often. They believe that if they believe it is one way than that's the way it is. It takes strength to meet God where He is. To know life the way He knows life.

Real Christianity is not for wimps.

We are the representatives of Jesus on earth. We are to be the light of the world. Jesus never said it would be easy, but there will be the reward of eternal life.

 

[dayhiker]

I had a GF once who said her church and herself didn't believe in being born again. So I asked her if she believed God was working in her life. She said yes, so she did believe in being born again, she just didn't use those words. That's what I've found.

 

[Andrea411]

I think "Holiness" churches used to concentrate on outer holiness, whereas now, a lot think about more inner holiness. Though, the outer holiness would probably come automatically with the inner.

I am a Holiness pastor, except I preach inner holiness.

So exactly what is a Holiness church… I would think all churches were holiness?? If you get what I mean. I had previously thought that holiness churches were Oneness Pentecostals. I was wrong. I get the outward appearance needs to match the inward but so much of that is subjective.

I think of to whom it is pure….. it is pure. Or children, going swimming…. I think there is modesty even in a swim suit at the beach…. but from what I'm seeing here; most people don't think holiness churches would allow swimsuits at all. Personally, I don't like 2-pc suits on girls even when they are modest. I really think they need to be modest but still be swim suits. Again, to whom it is pure it is pure…. boys can wear tank tops and trunks. I think that is modest. 100 years ago it would be outrageous.

I also see women as being more modest in slacks than in dresses, do you?

I am glad they allow women to be pastors… seems the evangelicals cripple His church trying to make everyone else submit. Men never learning to submit, actually puts them at a disadvantage spiritually…just saying,.

God bless, andrea