"hitler was a zionist" says ken livingstone

[naveed]

mayor of england ken livingstone gets suspended for saying

"hitler was a zionist"

 

[Armoured]

This is the 3rd time I've seen you post it, and now in it's own thread. What's your point? Obviously you feel strongly about it, maybe expand a little more on it?

 

[bhillyard]

Ken Livingstone was once mayor oof LONDON not England. There are many more mayors in England than the mayor of London.
Incidentally the mayor of London is not the same as the Lord Mayor of the City of London.

 

[Armoured]

Incidentally the mayor of London is not the same as the Lord Mayor of the City of London.

Is that right? Well cool. Today I learned.

 

[xpower]

What is a zionist?

 

[TerranceL]

England has a mayor?

Does the queen know?

 

[Arcangl86]

More accurately, the former mayor of London was suspended from the Labour Party due to the comments made above.

 

[Open Heart]

What is a zionist?

A zionist is someone who believes that Israel has the right to exist as a refuge for Jews around the world to escape from antisemitism.

 

[Chris B]

mayor of england ken livingstone gets suspended for saying

"hitler was a zionist"

That's not what he said, and very few people seem to have bothered to see what he actually said, and if what he actually said was valid. (By and large it is.)
Many British politicians and journalists seem to be on a par with amoeba, here: stimulus, reaction, stimulus, reaction.
Nothing much equating to thought.

The surrounding events may well be more important: moves to pick off friends and allies of the Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn, prior to an attempt to unseat him. He has proven an incredibly divisive figure.

 

[Chris B]

A zionist is someone who believes that Israel has the right to exist as a refuge for Jews around the world to escape from antisemitism.

Not wrong, but a gentle definition of Zionist which hardly catches its quite marked variety.
"Disagreements in philosophy has led to rifts in the Zionist movement of the years and a number of separate forms have emerged, notably: Political Zionism, Religious Zionism, Socialist Zionism and Territorial Zionism" (from the Jewish virtual library)
This extends to those who insist that Israel (modern state) should and must regain and hold its ancient boundaries.


And just to add to the mix there are usages of the term Zionist which are distinctly hostile...
"Zionist"? It all very much depends on what you mean by "Zionist".

 

[Goonie]

Livingstone was the mayor of London, and yes he made a truly stupid and offensive statement regarding Hitler and zionism.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics...-history-to-support-hitler-and-zionism-claims

 

[Oafman]

England has a mayor?

Does the queen know?

Don't worry, they're related.

The ruling classes have always made a good job of maintaining a fairly limited gene pool.

 

[Oafman]

Livingstone's comments were not well thought through. There are a handful of historians who support what he said, but it isn't the consensus.

But the current situation, where some people are searching back through social media posts of people at all levels within the Labour Party, looking for any criticism of Israel which they then proceed to label as antisemitic, is completely ridiculous.

And the Tories have some nerve. Quite how a party that has always been inherently racist thinks it's in a position to criticise a party which has always fought against racism is beyond me.

 

[trunks2k]

Is that right? Well cool. Today I learned.

 

[Chris B]

The witch-hunt isn't primarily about what the witch-hunt says it is about.
It is powered more by the internal politics and divisions of the Labour party.
(Not just rearranging deck-chairs on the Titanic, but *arguing* about rearranging deck-chairs on the Titanic.)


By the way: am I racist? Yes.
Given when and where I was brought up that was in some degree inevitable.
But I'm working on it. Have been for fifty years.

 

[Chris B]

Is that right? Well cool. Today I learned.

Technically I have a right to carry a drawn sword in the City of London, (only the City, not the whole of London) and to drive my sheep over London bridge. (Freeman of the City of London, by Guild: I have it on parchment, somewhere.)

But it's one of those rights where as long as no-one uses it, no-one will bother to take it away.

 

[Goonie]

Technically I have a right to carry a drawn sword in the City of London, (only the City, not the whole of London) and to drive my sheep over London bridge. (Freeman of the City of London, by Guild: I have it on parchment, somewhere.)

But it's one of those rights where as long as no-one uses it, no-one will bother to take it away.

Oh go on, just hire a flock of sheep and drive it through the city, you know you want to.

 

[Oafman]

just hire a flock of sheep

I was about to ask 'from where on Earth does one hire a flock of sheep' , but then I remembered about Wales

 

[Oafman]

The American Jewish scholar behind Labour’s ‘antisemitism’ scandal breaks his silence

Norman G. Finkelstein talks Naz Shah MP, Ken Livingstone, and the Labour ‘antisemitism’ controversy.

 

[Chris B]

Oh go on, just hire a flock of sheep and drive it through the city, you know you want to.

It is actually done...
http://www.itv.com/news/london/2015-09-27/why-are-there-sheep-being-herded-across-london-bridge/
"Today marks the annual Great Sheep Drive when Freemen of the City of London exercise their 'long-established right' to herd sheep over the capital's oldest river crossing."
I think that's a fairly new reintroduction: it didn't happen when I was living in London and could have participated.