Hillsong & The Enough Rope Interview with Tanya Levin

[rapturefish]

Did anyone watch the interview on Enough Rope this week with ex-Hillsong member Tanya Levin? What are your responses and thoughts on watching this? Have you read her book that has just come out?

 

[rapturefish]

Overall while there were some innaccuracies it seemed to me that this was the voice of a person who loved Hillsong and still has some fond memories of it, but who has now lost faith and has to deal with life as a person ruined by bad church experiences. I don't feel she was bitter; a bitter person would not give the positives she did about Hillsong in the process of questioning some of its practices. Still the whole thing had a sadness to it. As one hurt by church more than once I can resonate with her story in key places.

 

[Trogdor the Burninator]

Every church has ex-members who may have been badly done by in some way, and I really pray that she can be healed and remain with Christ in another church.

However, the fact that she's turned up on Enough Rope, A Current Affair and 702 breakfast radio all within a few days, just when she happens to have a book launch on, makes me very suspicious of her motives. I smell a publicist.

 

[DavinMochrie]

I have big issues with teh way Hillsong run things.

I don't mean any disrespect to members here.

But the things I have heard and read from a lot of sources raise alarm bells. Lot's of them.

I would caution everyone to keep an open mind and not simply take sides based on affiliations.

 

[Trogdor the Burninator]

However, the fact that she's turned up on Enough Rope, A Current Affair and 702 breakfast radio all within a few days, just when she happens to have a book launch on, makes me very suspicious of her motives. I smell a publicist.

Update: …and a full-page spread in today’s Australian. Someone is certainly milking this for all it’s worth.

 

[DavinMochrie]

Update: …and a full-page spread in today’s Australian. Someone is certainly milking this for all it’s worth.

Does Hillsong publish any books or do any fundraising?


How can you even say that she compares to their revenue raising activities.

If anything - the whole issue with Hillsong is how they are focussed on money and propserity. [Not to mention the disgusting things I've heard about focussing on looks and discriminating against ugly or fat people]

I'm neither a Hillsong basher or supporter, but there have been many questions raised.

In fact this issue is an issue for every single Australian Tax Payer.

The minute they remove their Tax Exempt status, the minute I say more power to them! None of my business. But they continue to have all Australians fund their lavish lifestyles.


I wonder what a poor carpenter's son from 200 years ago would have thought about this?

 

[Trogdor the Burninator]

Does Hillsong publish any books or do any fundraising?
How can you even say that she compares to their revenue raising activities.

It doesn't. But I get very suspicious when someone comes out of a church claiming that certain things went on there, and then proceeds to hit the talk-show circuit and launch a book on the subject. ACA ran a piece claiming they were a cult "stealing away our youth", and used her interview to back it up. Well I'm sorry, but I've been to HS, and it might be many things, but it's not a cult.

If anything - the whole issue with Hillsong is how they are focussed on money and propserity. [Not to mention the disgusting things I've heard about focussing on looks and discriminating against ugly or fat people]

Well, Brian Houston will be paying for his stupid book “You Need More Money” for a long time, even after he voluntarily withdrew it from sale.
But the ugly thing is an urban myth from what I’ve heard. And seen, judging by the people I’ve seen on the door (and leading the choir) when I was there.

I'm neither a Hillsong basher or supporter, but there have been many questions raised.

In fact this issue is an issue for every single Australian Tax Payer.

The minute they remove their Tax Exempt status, the minute I say more power to them! None of my business. But they continue to have all Australians fund their lavish lifestyles.

Hillsong wouldn’t have 5% of the wealth of the Catholic Church. And despite their faults they do carry out a great deal of charity work.

I wonder what a poor carpenter's son from 200 years ago would have thought about this?

Good question. And one Christian leaders of all colours should be asking a lot more often.

 

[DavinMochrie]

I think going on circuit to publisise the book would be required by the publisher. Also I think her aim is to get the message out there.

I believe that's her aim all along.

These books have a limited run, and she would be a one book wonder, unless she does more about exposing Hillsong.

My best friend from High School and his wife are active members of Hillsong. The things he tells me sets off alarm bells, but he seems okay with it all.

Catholic Church aren't exactly the model for honest raising of money, considering it's past over the last 1000 years or so. Hmm they are so rich and powerful they have their own country. But we don't need talk about warrior popes of the middle ages.

 

[Labayu]

Just sounds as though she's decided that she's not a christian anymore and it just so happens that the church she used to belong to is famous enough to write a book about.

How many churches want to either build more buildings or repair the one that they are in and [would] do fundraising?

It's also intrsting that it seems that most of experinaces were when hillsong was "about 500 people". you'd be lucky to see "just" 500 in the smallest service in the smaller of the two campus.

hillsong don't run compassion, it's not even pentacostal.

the ugly people on the doors are pastors! and there are some ugly/fat singers and even worship leaders.

Also I got told by someone that was there that the incident that got her banned was when she turned up to the confrence and started screaming and shouting during one of the sessions that had [I think] a couple of thousand people in... it's not totally suprising that the senior pastor of a 20,000+ church and the head of the AoG in Aus might have niether the time nor desire to meet with an non-believing ex-member who wants help in writing a book that she openly admits will be highly critical of his church.

 

[DavinMochrie]

I was reading the Bible, and this is how I feel on the subject.


Matthew 6:19-2119 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: Matthew 6:19-2120 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: Matthew 6:19-2121 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

 

[something from the fridge]

I wonder what a poor carpenter's son from 200 years ago would have thought about this?

I don't know what he would think, but i'm pretty sure he'd tell you it was 2000 years ago.

 

[myxconviction]

instead of having a bash at Hillsong, why not go spend some time with God? I used to be a basher, especially of Planetshakers, Hillsong, even the AOG. But the revelation I recieved was THEY are the ones that have to answer to the Almighty. So if we live Christ-like lives, we are accountable for ourselves.
Let them do what they are doing. But if what they are doing draws millions closer to God, and they DONT have to pay for it, isnt that what churches are for? People aren't charged money to go to Hillsong, they VOLUNTARILY give it. I buy their cd's. I read Brian Houtons books.

But when it's all said and done, I like Hillsong. No Bashing for me. And when I'm before God, answering to Him, I won't be up on church bashing charges. End of story.

 

[John Spong is wrong]

I've just finished reading "People In Glass Houses". Yep - I've actually read the book which (I suspect) is more than I can say about most people on this forum. So having read the book, as well as having seen Ms Levin's interview on "Enough Rope", I think I'm qualified to comment on this issue.

Ms Levin's assessment of Hillsong is, in my opinion, accurate. Hillsong operates on marketing, recruitment, and membership. With membership comes compulsory tithing. And tithing is a means to an end and that end is money. Hillsong makes money. Lots of money. An obsene amount of money. They throw in things like donating to orphanages in Uganda (the amount actually given just represents loose change to them) to keep their critics off track. But persistent critics like myself aren't so easily fooled. There is the case (the now infamous case) of Hillsong trying to bribe that indigenous woman in Sydney to the tune of $280,000 after they were about to be exposed for financial fraud and misuse of a government grant. The woman - who is now one of my heroes - told Hillsong exactly where they could stick their money. She stated, "I don't sell my soul for $280,000". Also there are the accounts of the prison/correctional facility visits Hillsong made - only to disgust the inmates after trying to impress them with displays of wealth.

1 Timothy 2:10 is a verse which you will never hear preached upon at Hillsong. In fact (just as Luther wanted the book of James out of the Bible) it wouldn't surprise me if Hillsong wanted the book of 1 Timothy expunged. After all, 1 Timothy 3:3 states that an elder of the church must be "free from the love of money" and 1 Timothy 6:9 says that "But those who want to get rich fall into temptation and a snare and many foolish and harmful desires which plunge men into ruin and destruction".

Then there is the problem of how Brian Houston is able to rule Hillsong, indeed the whole AoG, like a dictator. People who dare cross Brian, or even show mild dissent, are crushed. Look at what happened to Geoff Bulllock. Look at what happened to the former head of Hillsong's bible school. Indeed, so powerful in Christian circles has Brian become (mainly because of his money, and boy does money talk) that only a few select individuals like Tim Costello dare speak out against him.

Hillsong reminds me a lot of my ex-church - abusive and destructive in equal measure. It was also Pentecostal and obsessed with money. The way Hillsong's Storm Troopers (euphemistically aka 'security guards') threw Ms Levin out of the building when she had done nothing wrong and wouldn't even allow her to collect her handbag from inside was disgusting.

In summary, "People In Glass Houses" was a profoundly disturbing book. It was painful for me to read through it - it saddens me and angers me to realise that a lot of churches do more harm than good. I am currently in 'rehabilitation' in a Baptist church. For Ms Levin the pain was too great and she is now outside the church. I can hardly blame her.

 

[DavinMochrie]

Thanks for the update.

I might just get the book and read it.

 

[GodsoldierClintus]

Same, I'd like to read the book.

 

[norbie]

What I am mostly interested would be their teaching. In their money and advertising they are simmuliar like Jimmy Swaghart and all other American "Gospel Enterprises".
But what are their teaching like? Are they stick close to the Bible?

 

[tigercub]

Prosperity Gospel. Manipulation. Grrr. Those are my thoughts on Hillsong.

I missed the interview I am on the lookout for the book though. Wonder if Kmart has it....

 

[TheDag]

Then there is the problem of how Brian Houston is able to rule Hillsong, indeed the whole AoG, like a dictator. People who dare cross Brian, or even show mild dissent, are crushed. Look at what happened to Geoff Bulllock. Look at what happened to the former head of Hillsong's bible school. Indeed, so powerful in Christian circles has Brian become (mainly because of his money, and boy does money talk) that only a few select individuals like Tim Costello dare speak out against him.

This is very easily done in the AOG church as the leadership system is based on the American corporate structure. People look for a strong leader. When two AOG evangelists were fighting each other then other AOG churches wanted to distance themselves from it. They looked for a strong leader and Hillsong was it which is why you now have Hillsong churches rather than just a conference by the name of Hillsong and Hillsong churches in other states of Aus as well as in other countries.

Hillsong reminds me a lot of my ex-church - abusive and destructive in equal measure. It was also Pentecostal and obsessed with money. The way Hillsong's Storm Troopers (euphemistically aka 'security guards') threw Ms Levin out of the building when she had done nothing wrong and wouldn't even allow her to collect her handbag from inside was disgusting.

So were you actually there when this happened? Did you follow them out to find out that they refused to allow her to get her handbag and also hear that they refused to get it for here? Or are you just going on gossip?

In summary, "People In Glass Houses" was a profoundly disturbing book. It was painful for me to read through it - it saddens me and angers me to realise that a lot of churches do more harm than good. I am currently in 'rehabilitation' in a Baptist church. For Ms Levin the pain was too great and she is now outside the church. I can hardly blame her.

God will hold her accountable for her decisions. I pray that she doesn't turn her back on God so when she stands before God for judgement she doesn't pay the penalty. Saying she had a bad experience in a church once will not get her of the hook especially as we as believers are supposed to check what we are taught and see if it matches up with what the bible says.

 

[John Spong is wrong]

Prosperity Gospel. Manipulation. Grrr. Those are my thoughts on Hillsong.

I missed the interview I am on the lookout for the book though. Wonder if Kmart has it....

One of the distinguishing features of 'toxic Christianity' (as Ms Levin describes it) is guilt manipulation. And prosperity theology - which is just greed dressed up to look spiritual - is another feature.

You may still be able to download the entire interview from the "Enough Rope" website.

Dymocks should definitely have the book.

I've noticed you for a while on this forum TigerCub - I find your opinions generally match mine on a whole range of issues (tithing, etc.) with the exception of FF. You'd make a great Micah Challenge/Voices for Justice member! You should consider joining and coming to Canberra next year.

p.s. - how did you get so fluffy? Hehe.......

 

[tigercub]

p.s. - how did you get so fluffy? Hehe.......

Tumble-dried on warm