Hillsong church on ABC right now

[Bevlina]

Then I pray art, that Jim will agree 100% also.

 

[artofwar]

on the 7:30 report

 

[marduke]

only caught the last bit...

 

[artofwar]

very interesting , the first bit was quite positive then this david millikin came on to say we are in coherts with the liberal party haha , i liked the fact that brian said they invited mark latham but he was not interested.

 

[Glacial]

very interesting , the first bit was quite positive then this david millikin came on to say we are in coherts with the liberal party haha , i liked the fact that brian said they invited mark latham but he was not interested.

Well, Latham isn't a Christian, so it's really no surprise that it wouldn't interest him.

Still, yet another reason to support Latham this election. He looks like he's going to respect the separation of church and state, and actually focus on his job instead of evangelizing to people like Peter Costello does.

 

[LivingWorship]

Well, Latham isn't a Christian, so it's really no surprise that it wouldn't interest him.

Still, yet another reason to support Latham this election. He looks like he's going to respect the separation of church and state, and actually focus on his job instead of evangelizing to people like Peter Costello does.

Hi Glacial! Yeah Latham was never a chance, but in relation to evangelising... it may not be the best for church and state to be together, but obviously from a Christian standpoint, I don't see a whole lot wrong with them simply working together, for the common good of the constituency. I do agree that the past has seen problems in that area, but in the main that appears to be because of the fact that the church was also THE STATE, and all government eminated from them. This isn't the case here, and never would be.

Furthermore, it might seem unpalatable to some for folk like Costello who are Christians to "evangelise" but if he is to live out the Christianity he professes, then YES! He must evangelise! It's simply what Christians are commanded to do in the Bible - it's not anything to do with politics. Even if his motives may or may not be questionable, and rest outside of merely trying to bring the gospel to lilght, that's not our place to say.

 

[LivingWorship]

Bevvie as always the peacelover, bless you mate!

 

[Glacial]

I understand the need of some Christians to evangelize (thankfully most don't), but I object to it when Costello doesn't make it clear that he's doing it as a private individual. Recently he's been announcing that everyone should follow the ten commandments in the official capacity as a parliamentarian. There are over 200,000 Muslim Australians, 350,000 Buddhist Australians etc. It isn't the place of any politician to be promoting one religion over another. How would you like it if I got up as a federal politician and ridiculed Christianity, urged people to become Humanists, and generally grandstanded about atheism or humanism? Furthermore, what would your reaction be if a Muslim politician got up and evangelized, urging us to do what the Koran tells us?

If Costello wants to go and preach on a street corner, the fine. But he should clearly state that these are his personal views, and he should concurrently avoid imposing his religion on others.

 

[Icystwolf]

DR DAVID MILLIKAN: I think Peter Costello has deep religious feelings within him.

I actually think that he feels that he has been destined by God to be the prime minister.

I'm sure he feels that in his very being.

lololol....hahahhahahahhahahahahhahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaha

DAVID MILLIKAN: The mainline churches are more problematic.

The mainline churches ask questions about refugee policy, about welfare policy and, see, the Howard Government has a very troubled relationship with people who question or argue about the justice or equity of what's happening in Australia.

They'll never get that discussion from Hillsong.

ok, I admit, I didn't watch the program today as I normally would because I was at Bible Study.

Reading that...I don't know...

I'm going to let Hillsong off the loose for several months to get my life sorted out first...too many problems on my side now..I guess the Hillsingers can call it, their prayers were answered!

Also note, the woman reporter, Maxine MCKEW...she is a huge huge huge Atheist.

Just to warn a couple of people here that just because she's mean to hillsong doesn't mean she's automatically anglican.

 

[lullalullaby]

Just to warn a couple of people here that just because she's mean to hillsong doesn't mean she's automatically anglican.

eh? anglicans are mean to hillsong?

 

[Glacial]

I actually agree with the comment about the mainline churches, more often than not I agree with the things that the Anglicans & the Uniting Church say -- they've got the guts to stand up for what they believe in, and I really respect them for that. I even agree with the Catholics now and then, although when it comes to their attitude to sex and birth control, it's all out war.

 

[Icystwolf]

I understand the need of some Christians to evangelize (thankfully most don't), but I object to it when Costello doesn't make it clear that he's doing it as a private individual.

I think there are different catagories for evangelism. There are some that deem a person a cancer just because they don't believe what they say. I was told I was going to hell unless I went along some particular church that had guarentee tickets...

I would personally, like all my friends to get to know God because I'd like to see them all in Heaven. But at the same time, I know from what the scriptures says... a lot of people won't be Christian, because they wern't born Christian(not literally, but theres a theology tag to that of why I think that way...also because I'm a Calvinist). Thats something that I have to accept.

Ultimately, Hillsong is non-critical, it's all about what makes them happy..etc.

Which is the modern lifestyle choice, whatever makes you happy and don't care about everyone else...then it's correct.

Recently he's been announcing that everyone should follow the ten commandments in the official capacity as a parliamentarian.

Have you watched what goes on in the parliment house, the swear words and name calling goes all around... which makes it quite interesting...lol... I think it might be necessary, before another affair goes about the labor camp...lol....

There are over 200,000 Muslim Australians, 350,000 Buddhist Australians etc. It isn't the place of any politician to be promoting one religion over another. How would you like it if I got up as a federal politician and ridiculed Christianity, urged people to become Humanists, and generally grandstanded about atheism or humanism?

I don't think he ridiculed any minority groups. So I don't feel as if thats the extent of the problem...

Furthermore, what would your reaction be if a Muslim politician got up and evangelized, urging us to do what the Koran tells us?

I would be very annoyed..yes!

Islam it'll be on a rise again, because Islam excelled in trade. If we have globalisation, Islam will be on the next wave!

If Costello wants to go and preach on a street corner, the fine. But he should clearly state that these are his personal views, and he should concurrently avoid imposing his religion on others.

Costello never imposed religion, he just endorsed it. The outrage I thought was that he intended to gain more votes by going to Hillsong, because it is a push-over target...

 

[Sharky]

Peeps, there are WAY too many hillsong threads being started.

Dont start anymore otherwise i will have to delete them as spam.

:moved:

 

[Glacial]

I think there are different catagories for evangelism. There are some that deem a person a cancer just because they don't believe what they say. I was told I was going to hell unless I went along some particular church that had guarentee tickets...

Granted, i'm no expert on the 'levels' of evangelism, in this sense I'm essentially using it to describe preaching about a particular religion...

I would personally, like all my friends to get to know God because I'd like to see them all in Heaven. But at the same time, I know from what the scriptures says... a lot of people won't be Christian, because they wern't born Christian(not literally, but theres a theology tag to that of why I think that way...also because I'm a Calvinist). Thats something that I have to accept.

Ah, so you're a Calvinist then. I actually didn't notice that, I've always found Calvinism to be a bit, well, strange. I've never understood how it could be supported, but perhaps we might get to that in the Aus Elections thread, who knows.

Have you watched what goes on in the parliment house, the swear words and name calling goes all around... which makes it quite interesting...lol... I think it might be necessary, before another affair goes about the labor camp...lol....

I agree that parliament is essentially an all-out brawl most of the time, but I'm not too sure that there's anything in the ten commandments that addresses that.

Tony Abbot is particularly abusive in parliament, but Latham has had his fair share of moments. Apparently abbot and Latham hate each other, and have been known to launch vicious personal attacks on each other. I've seen Abbot accuse Latham of encouraging teenagers to inject heroin, and made some pretty disgusting comments about his first (failed) marriage. On the flip side, Abbot is a known fanatical Catholic who's all too happy to preach about Catholic morality and values, so Latham obligingly revealed that Abbot had in fact fathered a child out of wedlock. It was a stupid thing to do, but the look on Abbot's face was priceless.

Ultimately, both sides do it -- Costello himself says some reprehensible things in parliament, and spends most of his time gloating and taunting Labor, so he's not really in a place to lecture others on parliamentary decorum.

I don't think he ridiculed any minority groups. So I don't feel as if thats the extent of the problem...

Simply by telling people to follow the ten commandments in an interview in an official capacity, I see that as being disrespectful to minority religions -- and Aboriginal religions. The first commandment in particular tells people to follow the Christian god and that god alone, and IMHO -- that's not something that the federal treasurer should be getting involved in.

I would be very annoyed..yes!

Islam it'll be on a rise again, because Islam excelled in trade. If we have globalisation, Islam will be on the next wave!

That's basically how I feel when Costello starts preaching. I wouldn't preach about humanism if I was in parliament, so I don't see why Costello feels the need to preach about Chrisitanity.

As for the Islam issue, I do think that it will overtake Christianity within 30 years or so as the world's largest religion. Scientology and Paganism are also growing rather fast, although I hope that Scientology might lose enough legal cases and actually fold or disintegrate somewhat -- as they're actually a pretty vile cult.

Buddhism is also growing steadily in the west, in Australia particularly. It's already the second largest religion here, and with lots of Australians taking it up & SE Asian immigration, it's going to continue to grow -- at a faster pace than Islam as well.

Costello never imposed religion, he just endorsed it. The outrage I thought was that he intended to gain more votes by going to Hillsong, because it is a push-over target...

Sorry, that was badly phrased on my part. I think it was somewhere in between myself. He went a bit further than endorsing it -- some of his language was leaning towards a confrontational 'obey the commandments!' type of thing.

Interestingly enough, he gave an interview about the topic on a Sunday, actually breaking one of the commandments in the process. Barry Cassidy nailed him on it, and he simply laughed it off. In my book, that makes him a hypocrite.

 

[Icystwolf]

eh? anglicans are mean to hillsong?

in the perspective of Hillsong.

Anglicans and Baptist often critise Hillsong's beliefs... Hillsong in response, isn't theological, rather...they just don't know what they're missing, or , they're just jealouse we're being more blessed

 

[LivingWorship]

I understand the need of some Christians to evangelize (thankfully most don't)

Unfortunately you are 100% correct - MOST CHRISTIANS FAIL TO EVANGELISE... and we wonder why our churches are falling down... the bigger churches like Hillsong are trying to reverse this trend by empowering the people, reminding them THEY are the ministers of the gospel, and it shouldn't be up to the pastor... that age old philosophy makes Christians lazy and we lose the battle with religion.

There are over 200,000 Muslim Australians, 350,000 Buddhist Australians etc. It isn't the place of any politician to be promoting one religion over another. How would you like it if I got up as a federal politician and ridiculed Christianity, urged people to become Humanists, and generally grandstanded about atheism or humanism? Furthermore, what would your reaction be if a Muslim politician got up and evangelized, urging us to do what the Koran tells us?

I would be most angry! Know why? This nation was founded on Biblical principles and morals... if people want to come out here, fine. We welcome them with open arms - BUT - they have no right to enforce their religion on us... we already have a strong Christian heritage and we should be keeping it that way. However, we find that we have relaxed too much and consequently we are losing this heritage. And our society loses its morals. THe snowball rolls on... And YES we have enough people already saying Humanism is the way to go... like we need anymore of that ... there are too many dissenting voices as it is!

You say it's no place for a "pollie" to be preaching... but I tell you - God forbid if a Muslim makes it to Parliament, they will speak for all they are worth about the good of Islam. You know that there are some Muslims about who have an agenda for this nation... to have an Islamic PM by the year 2040 or something like that. Can you imagine if our Parliament was essentially run by a Muslim... and with that, several key MP's were Muslim.. this nation would turn upside down! Do you wonder why Christians need to stand up and be counted - even politicians? We have a battle on our hands!!

 

[Sharky]

Language guys please watch it.

I have to agree. We need more evangelists.

I think, each of us, sometime in our life, should just go out and evangelise once (if you haven't yet). Just to get the feel of it.

I think i'll start that too.

 

[Glacial]

Unfortunately you are 100% correct - MOST CHRISTIANS FAIL TO EVANGELISE... and we wonder why our churches are falling down... the bigger churches like Hillsong are trying to reverse this trend by empowering the people, reminding them THEY are the ministers of the gospel, and it shouldn't be up to the pastor... that age old philosophy makes Christians lazy and we lose the battle with religion.

You are of course correct here. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Catholicism in fact growing in Australia? I've never seen a Catholic evangelize, so growth can be achieved without preaching.

I would be most angry! Know why? This nation was founded on Biblical principles and morals...

Is there any reference to the bible or religion in our constitution? The answer is of course no, so your point is moot.

if people want to come out here, fine. We welcome them with open arms - BUT - they have no right to enforce their religion on us...

Right, just as Christians have no right to force their religion on anyone else either.

Incidentally, Aborigines were in fact here first, so you don't have any right to force your religion on them -- they've got the dreamtime.

we already have a strong Christian heritage and we should be keeping it that way.

Well, not really. As mentioned, our legal system in act is completely separate from Christianity, and a lot of our laws really depart from Christian principles and 'rules'. If our founders wanted us to have been a Christian nation, then they'd have said so in our constitution. Thankfully, they didn't -- and as such you don't have any support for your position. It really doesn't matter if the majority of people who came here early on were Christians, being a Christian doesn't automatically mean that you support setting up a theocracy.

Furthermore, we've actually got an aboriginal heritage, and if you ask me -- we should be keeping it that way!

However, we find that we have relaxed too much and consequently we are losing this heritage.

I'd agree with that, Christianity is certainly on the decline. I don't see that as a bad thing (although i'd be sad to see the Uniting & Anglican churches go), but obviously you will.

And our society loses its morals.

I disagree with that, as Christianity declines, IMHO we actually become more moral. Discrimination against gays goes down, there's no more hysteria over contraception and birth control -- we're free to partake in stem cell research. Women get rights, divorce becomes possible -- and we generally become far more tolerant and easy-going. Slavery is also easier to end, as the bible tends to support that kind of thing, just as it supports the killing of witches.

Human rights groups and so on also tend to pop up, as people start caring about people irrespective of what religion and nationality they are -- as the conservatism of traditional religion loses it's influence.

THe snowball rolls on... And YES we have enough people already saying Humanism is the way to go... like we need anymore of that ****...

On the contrary, the more people advocating humanism, the better for humanity. Many Christians act very much like humanists now, which is a fantastic thing IMHO.

there are too many dissenting voices as it is!

This is almost orwellian, where on earth did you acquire this authoritarian streak?

You say it's no place for a "pollie" to be preaching... but I tell you - God forbid if a Muslim makes it to Parliament

Actually, I hope we'll have some Muslims in parliament ASAP -- many Australians are Muslims, and they shouldn't just be represented by white Christian males. Just as we should have some Buddhists in parliament, and more women. Diversity is a good thing.

they will speak for all they are worth about the good of Islam.

Are you clairvoyant? No? If no, how on earth would you be able to predict something like that?

There are moderate Muslims about you know, just as their are moderate Christians.

You know that there are some Muslims about who have an agenda for this nation... to have an Islamic PM by the year 2040 or something like that.

A Muslim PM? How horrible! We've already had Christian PMs, it's about time that someone else had a go. As long as they keep their religion to themselves, i'd certainly vote for an Islamic PM.

Can you imagine if our Parliament was essentially run by a Muslim... and with that, several key MP's were Muslim.. this nation would turn upside down!

You appear to believe that all Muslims are fundamentalists. They aren't. As long as the MPs in question aren't fundamentalists, then I can't see why we shouldn't have Muslim MPs. I don't know where you get the idea that the nation would turn upside down either.

Do you wonder why Christians need to stand up and be counted - even politicians? We have a battle on our hands!!

I really don't see why you're so worried, moderate Muslims aren't anything to be afraid of. Go out and meet some, they're generally great people.

 

[LivingWorship]

Sorry Shark, that was probably me!

Glacial where exactly are you from? Just curious...

Look neither one of us will convince the other, at least for tonight but I tell you... having a Muslim PM or a Buddhist PM or whatever... will cause more problems than it will solve, I can assure you. I am no clairvoyant, I just see it as a really precarious position. Sure there are moderate Muslims but as a general rule, they are more active in their belief than Christians are and that's a tragedy... the Christian message has so much more hope than many of these other religions do... you only have to look at the local papers around town and see all the various Muslim (and Sikh and Hindu) groups petition governments for funding to build prayer houses and the like. They are active in promoting their own religion... I'm not saying this to spread fear, I am simply trying to make people aware of the danger we face should we depart from the values our society holds. It isn't really Christian, but I tell you many of the laws made (some of which have changed, sadly) and the moral ideals have come or begun from biblical principles. Read the Book.

Blessings to you all - LW

 

[artofwar]

Wow glacial and icy i like this thread as you both proved to me how little you know about Hillsong church, so all your "contacts" icy that were once in the church are obviously not telling you the full truth, if you want to msg me in regards to this and have a"mature " discussion if you can do this msg me if not dont worry about it , the more people we have just thinking of themselves and religion away from the church the better