Help with doubts!

NoMoreDoubts

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Hi! my name is Emma,

I have lately decided that life really isn't worth living unless God is in it (and I'm sure all who have found God agree!).. My family and friends are all Christian but I find it hard to talk to them sometimes...

Basically I'm in trouble, because I can't help but find myself doubting God's very existence =(

I study Physics and Biology at a university level, and in every one of my 5 subjects, it is a requirement to believe that the world is billions of years old!

But most of all, I am wondering why God doesn't reveal himself more plainly than he does? My friend says that it would take away our freewill, but wouldn't it only give us a better understanding of our reality? that way everyone could make better decisions..

I wish I could get over my doubts and join with my family and friends in prayer, but I can't truly believe!

Thank you all very much for your help,
Emma.
 

NoMoreDoubts

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Wow, that was fast. Thanks!

I have heard many inspiring testimonies already as it happens (but thank you for your offer, I might have to look into that later on!).. I am inspired, but my problem is getting over the logical speedbump that is my understanding :( .... if that makes any sense.

(also, funny you use the word "myriad", I took that out of my post incase I started sounding like a science professor haha :p)
 
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ChildOfGod97

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Hi! my name is Emma,

I have lately decided that life really isn't worth living unless God is in it (and I'm sure all who have found God agree!).. My family and friends are all Christian but I find it hard to talk to them sometimes...

Basically I'm in trouble, because I can't help but find myself doubting God's very existence =(

I study Physics and Biology at a university level, and in every one of my 5 subjects, it is a requirement to believe that the world is billions of years old!

But most of all, I am wondering why God doesn't reveal himself more plainly than he does? My friend says that it would take away our freewill, but wouldn't it only give us a better understanding of our reality? that way everyone could make better decisions..

I wish I could get over my doubts and join with my family and friends in prayer, but I can't truly believe!

Thank you all very much for your help,
Emma.


Okay. 'It is God's glory to hide a matter', 'to kings glory to seek a matter out'. God and hiding a matter go hand in hand.

Jesus spoke of why He spoke in metaphor... I won't look up the verse, you should, but it is to hide the 'secrets of the Kingdom of Heaven'.

You have to *think* to figure all of these things out, using the superior mind of Christ. It is way beyond simple black & white logic I see people often approach it with.


And, yes, that includes highly worldly intelligent atheists, Christians, and those of other beliefs.

So often I get, in fact, the simplest of explanations from otherwise very intelligent atheists for their disbelief. Usually it can be summed up into "well, bad things happen, to me especially, so God must not exist". I hate to say it, but really it is a disagreement they have with God.

One of those unconscious things people tend to have at a deep level...


In all honesty (or truly as some say), I have never talked to an agnostic or atheist who understood the wider dynamics of these hard questions. It is that obscured and that deep and that hard to understand. Long, long time Christians very often do not understand these things.

They have lives to live. It is not important for what they need to know.


These are non-answers... I know, in a sense. Or I am being vague. But, it is much more important to get to a place of seeking and a "I do not know" place then to quickly find answers to such complex and deep questions.


Socrates was dead right to focus on getting his students to that place of destroying their assumptions. Jesus said the exact same thing.


As for evolution... not so important details. You should be able to work with social prejudice of all sorts as a Christian all the time. There is nothing wrong with knowing the answers to tests... even if you suspect those answers ultimately are incorrect. That is just the way the world is built.


Finally, God will reveal Himself more plainly. Prophecy speaks deeply on this. What we are in now is an Age. In the Age to come, matters will be different. This is described metaphorically and in deeply obscured language in Revelation, as well as in various prophets.

Finding secrets is valuable. That is why God hid them through out the Prophets. They give options others do not have, options which are useful. The world does not regard such knowledge, but that knowledge is very valuable. It supplements faith and does have practical usage in our daily lives.


But, as for "free will" or no free will.... different issue. Most see it as an "either or" scenario. I see it as a paradox, as a "we have every appearance of free will, but do not". Which is far more paradoxical in practice and consideration then to simply say or hear.


I suppose a simple "for instance"... Jesus points out that "all are called, few are chosen". Or that 'those who come to me are led by the Father'. He also points out that saving knowledge is obscured from outsiders so they will not turn.

I view it as a sort of conspiracy of the weak and "foolish" of the world. One which God has set up, not man. A good secret group "thing".

Personally, I also view that as ultimately being for the good of others, as well. So, there is no real "in club" with God. Rather, if anyone is first in the knowledge of the Kingdom of God, among the first... then they are so that they may help those behind them.

If someone starts work early, they get the same wage as those who start in the last hour. To remind of that parable. We can not complain for having worked longer if those who work for less time get the same pay. Nor should we. It would be selfish and petty. Not God's attributes, nor ultimate attributes of His Children.
 
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Peripatetic

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But most of all, I am wondering why God doesn't reveal himself more plainly than he does? My friend says that it would take away our freewill, but wouldn't it only give us a better understanding of our reality? that way everyone could make better decisions..

If God chose to reveal Himself in a provable way, there would be no need for faith at all! Who wouldn't accept God's grace if it was irrefutable? God wants us to seek Him out of love, trust, and surrender, not out of fear.

Questions and doubt are normal... it shows that you are thinking for yourself instead of following blindly. Here's what I can tell you: if you ask for it, and show some patience, the Holy Spirit will knit a feeling of peace and assurance in your heart. He won't let you scientifically prove it to someone else, but you'll believe with confidence.
 
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NoMoreDoubts,

Emma,

One of the problems that you are facing is that Protestants are saved as individuals. That puts a lot of pressure on you to have faith. Plus, sometimes it's hard to see God through all the mythology, but he is there.

When I was your age I was a Roman Catholic and salvation was a weekly process of going to Confession on Saturday, then going to Mass on Sunday, and receiving Communion during Mass. Salvation was through the Sacraments of the Church, and Jesus was present in the wafer. As long as Catholics are in communion with the Pope they are saved through the Church. During each Mass we prayed, "look not upon our sins, but upon the faith of your Church".

The Jews are also saved as a people, and both the Jews and Catholics believe that every person on this planet is save as a people through the Covenant of the "Promises of the Sons of Noah" found in the Talmud. There is so much counterfeit in the World, that it's shot in the dark to find truth, so some people stick with one of the Covenants.

I am a Charismatic Protestant, and that seems to be where the young people are happy nowadays. The contemporary worship music is great, and simply worshiping God puts all the problems of finding truth behind us. All I see is Jesus.

When Charismatic pray in the Spirit, the Holy Spirit proceedth from the Father and testifies for his son Jesus Christ. Ask yourself if you really need to know about anything other than Jesus during this stage in your life? With college, and all?

The following Bible Verse states that the "Spirit of truth proceedeth from the Father" and testifies of Jesus:

"But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:" (John 15:25-27)
 
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Peripatetic

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When I was your age I was a Roman Catholic and salvation was a weekly process of going to Confession on Saturday, then going to Mass on Sunday, and receiving Communion during Mass. Salvation was through the Sacraments of the Church, and Jesus was present in the wafer. As long as Catholics are in communion with the Pope they are saved through the Church. During each Mass we prayed, "look not upon our sins, but upon the faith of your Church".

I don't know when or where you were Catholic, but the Catholic church does not teach salvation through works, or going to Mass, or communion with the Pope. You will find the following quotes right on the Vatican's web site:

Justification thus means that Christ himself is our righteousness

By grace alone, in faith in Christ's saving work and not because of any merit on our part, we are accepted by God and receive the Holy Spirit

Through Christ alone are we justified, when we receive this salvation in faith.

all persons depend completely on the saving grace of God for their salvation

We confess together that sinners are justified by faith in the saving action of God in Christ.

Even the quote you said is "look not upon our sins, but on the faith of your church?" not the works...

At last Sunday's mass, our priest did an entire sermon on Grace, and said "There is nothing we can do to make God love us more. There is nothing we can do to make God love us less." Then he said it again for emphasis.
 
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Peripatetic

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And FYI: I was raised in a Charismatic Catholic home, so I witnessed "raising the roof" contemporary singing, speaking in tongues, hands-on healing, prayer meetings, shouts of praise, fellowship retreats, etc. This type of worship (with a heavy dose of Bible study) is not incongruous with the Catholic church.

As I said in another tread, I do not have those gifts (tongues, healing, etc.), but I don't reject them and say they aren't "real". I also never experienced the physical "rushing in of the Holy Spirit" at a born again moment like many Protestants, but I would never tell them that they imagined it. All of these things are special fruits of the Spirit that are made available to different kinds of worshipers. To dismiss the presence of Christ in the Eucharist would be a similar insult to Catholics who have experienced this at their very core through the same Holy Spirit. I'm sorry that you didn't (just like I wasn't given the Charismatic gifts though I was raised that way). Always remember to be respectful of those who have.
 
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During the present Roman Catholic Mass (in the ordinary form) that is celebrated everyday in a Catholic Church the "Communion Rite" is spoken out loud.

The Communion Rite is broken down into 4 Sections:

LORDS PRAYER
SIGH OF PEACE
BREAKING OF BREAD
COMMUNION

During the SIGN OF PEACE the priest prays out loud:

"Lord Jesus Christ, you said to your apostles: I leave you peace, my peace I give you. **[Look not upon our sins, but the faith of your church]**, and grant us the peace and unity of your kingdom where you live for ever and ever. Amen"

"The peace of the Lord be with you always"

The people respond: "And also with you"

"Let us offer each other the sign of peace"

Note:
Listen for the COMMUNION RITE, and it will always follow one of the 4 EUCHARISTIC PRAYERS. Hint: the COMMUNION RITE follows directly after the people say, "For the kingdom, power, and glory are yours, now and forever."
 
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christian08

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You are right. In Revelations when our Lord finaly appears. He says all will know. I know it's hard to be in that type of life style. but know this, the things which are seen are temporary, and the things which are not seen are ETERNAL. The Lord Himself spoke and said blessed are those you have not seen AND BELIEVE. Alot of the science coming out and now established is convincing, but there are still gaps. I simply suggest to stay in the Word with the Lord and constantly pray for strength. It's not uncommon to doubt or struggle with your faith. I have and i think many have or will. but as long as we make sure our faith is grounded, the Lord is good to strengthen us and provide for us.
 
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Peripatetic

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Mr VertigoAge,

Do you think that you are helping the OP by correcting other christians? Well, maybe you are? Maybe it's good for her to see how a self proclaimed expert super imposes his will, not God's will, on other Christians?

Emma, if you want me to document anything that I posted, I will do a Google Search and look it up for you.

Each time that I post an opposing view in a thread, it is intended to help the OP and those that might be wrestling with the same questions. Quite often, I see something that I don't agree with, but resist the urge to post because I don't want to hijack the thread or show bias towards a position that wouldn't matter to the topic at hand.

In carefully reviewing your post and my reply, I see your point, and I apologize to you and Emma. It was late, and I had been hit over the head with a lot of anti-Catholic posts all day, so my trigger was a little more sensitive. I am certainly not an "expert". In fact, that was the very first things I said in my first podcast episode. I would never be in support of imposing my will (or anyone else's) above God's. As a matter of fact, that's why I chose a Muppet to be my av (besides the fact that I think Statler is cool!). It reminds me never to take myself too seriously.

Squarely on the topic of doubt: I do believe that too much argument about denominational differences can, itself, plant seeds of doubt in the minds of Christians. If enough people tell you that your belief system is wrong, you may start believing that all of it is wrong, not just the parts around the edges.

So to Emma: as I said in a previous post here, you are going through something that affects all of us at one time or another. I bet if you keep your eyes and ears open, He may give you a sign of His presence that only you will understand. You'll smile, look up, and say, "Oh... there you are." :)
 
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Johnnz

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Hi,

You are studying at a university level. You need a faith that has grown to satisfy and equip you and which you can accept with confidence. Around 80% of young people move away from a real Christian commitment within their first year of tertiary study. Why? They have never been given the information, tools and a faith sufficiently well founded and robust to wrestle with some very real 't issues at that level. Religious clichés won't suffice - pray more, look at this verse and confess it, faith means accepting something while your brain is dormant etc.

I faced your situation many years ago now (as you can see from my profile). It was a painful time then as there we so few good resources available, unlike today. But that lead to a search which has never ended, and which has given me a faith that is deeply rooted within me, which I can debate with great confidence and which relates very meaningfully and practically to other real people with real problems and questions.

Feel free to PM if you want some suggestion for resources.But do note. It is going to take time, reading, listening and pondering. Unless you are prepared to do that you will most likely put your faith aside.

Bless you
John
NZ
 
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childofGod31

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Hi! my name is Emma,

I have lately decided that life really isn't worth living unless God is in it (and I'm sure all who have found God agree!).. My family and friends are all Christian but I find it hard to talk to them sometimes...

Basically I'm in trouble, because I can't help but find myself doubting God's very existence =(

I study Physics and Biology at a university level, and in every one of my 5 subjects, it is a requirement to believe that the world is billions of years old!

But most of all, I am wondering why God doesn't reveal himself more plainly than he does? My friend says that it would take away our freewill, but wouldn't it only give us a better understanding of our reality? that way everyone could make better decisions..

I wish I could get over my doubts and join with my family and friends in prayer, but I can't truly believe!

Thank you all very much for your help,
Emma.

Just my two cents:

I think that God had a plan to NOT be obvious. Otherwise He would have been. We don't understand the plan. But basically, the whole world is blind. And doesn't see what's really going on. And God is opening the eyes of only some so that they can see.

Somebody really close to me is having the same problem and asking the same questions and has the same "speed bump". Through one of His children Jesus said that "man's knowledge" IS a barrier to coming to Him. It's easier to those who don't know much to come because they could believe anything.
But it's not that the smart ones know the truth. They don't. They think they do, but they don't see things as they need to be seen. The ignorant ones believe that anything is possible with God. But the smart ones are trying to figure out HOW it is possible. But this knowledge is hidden from them, so they come to the conclusion that it's impossible and that means there is no God.

The ignorant ones ALSO don't know how it is possible, but they believe God. And believing is all that matters. God takes care of the rest. So "blessed are the ignorant" (that's me, I can believe almost anything).

The only thing is: Jesus IS the only door. He can only open the eyes and reveal the truth. God has made sure that nobody could get to the truth UNLESS they come through Jesus. Jesus is the secret door. Jesus is the key. Whoever finds A RELATIONSHIP (daily one), with Him, will get that key and open the door.

So, I hope it wasn't too confusing. Keep trying. Focus on developing a relationship with Jesus. Talk to Him (even if you don't believe). He will come through at some point if your heart is right. There have been many many signs that God has sent to this person whom I know in order to help him to believe but he is rejecting them all as coincidences. I say: a blind person could see that these are signs. But he says: no, it's not proof. But he keeps trying. And because I believe what God is saying to him, about him, I know that God will save him and will help him.

So some unbelievers (those who have a hard time believing) also have hope. God will come through for them at some point, as long as they are doing their best at seeking Him.
 
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sbbqb7n16

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so let me get this straight...

what you're saying is that you study the intricacy and complexity of atomic cells, the development of living organisms and the complexity of the human body, and the rules of motion and force that govern the entire universe...

and you're wondering why God doesn't show Himself more plainly?

I'm sure that out of the big bang from nothingness, a world with this much order to it, just sprung up. Massive explosions tend to be very orderly.

Here's a good physics question for you: if every action has an equal and opposite reaction (Newton's 3rd law), then what was the opposite reaction to the Big Bang? :)

Or maybe God had something to do with it after all. I'm pretty sure that if you gave Him one day, He could create a sun that science would say took billions of years. ("I mean how did it get that big?? That just doesn't happen instantly - it takes time")
 
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Hakan101

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so let me get this straight...

what you're saying is that you study the intricacy and complexity of atomic cells, the development of living organisms and the complexity of the human body, and the rules of motion and force that govern the entire universe...

and you're wondering why God doesn't show Himself more plainly?

I'm sure that out of the big bang from nothingness, a world with this much order to it, just sprung up. Massive explosions tend to be very orderly.

Here's a good physics question for you: if every action has an equal and opposite reaction (Newton's 3rd law), then what was the opposite reaction to the Big Bang? :)

Or maybe God had something to do with it after all. I'm pretty sure that if you gave Him one day, He could create a sun that science would say took billions of years. ("I mean how did it get that big?? That just doesn't happen instantly - it takes time")

That was a really excellent response, I was going to say the same thing! Science has rarely made me doubt God, on the other contrary it's only reinforced my beliefs. With every breakthrough we make in science, we discover another secret behind how God made the universe. I've seen many people say that this universe just BANG'd into existence, but what not too many people realize is that if anything, it was God who caused that bang. It just couldn't have happened all by itself for no reason, right?
 
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Peripatetic

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Agree... the more I learn about the systems of the Universe, the more in awe I am of the order of it all. As hard as it is to comprehend a being that "always has been", it's even harder to imagine how something could just appear from nothing without being created (big bang or not).
 
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NoMoreDoubts

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Hi all, sorry I left for so long!

I read all of the posts and they are all very helpful but I think I have come to understand the folly of my ways. Over the last week I have done a lot of reading, primarily in a philosophical/rational sense rather than scientific and think that I will never believe God in my heart. I told my family my thoughts and, they were annoyed at first but I will stand firm in my true beliefs, as should anyone.

Also, ChildOfGod97 holds a very convincing argument (the first post), but I feel that accepting "not knowing" will reflect badly in the human search for knowledge... Though all his/her other points are very good.

(Also, I am still open to anyone who wishes to talk but I recommend you read whywontgodhealamputees(dot)com/god-toc.htm first... it really will make you think in new ways, and chapter 7 was particularly well made)

Nevertheless, thank you all, and may you have happy, long, and fulfilling lives.

P.S. I'm not sure about this forum but please don't flame me for saying this, because I'm sure you can all relate at least a little to it...
 
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Peripatetic

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Emma,

Thanks for reporting back! The fact that you are really considering these questions puts you ahead of many people out there. I have a friend who is very much like you... he wants to believe, but feels nothing inside and hasn't found a way to make it work with his rational view of the world and Philosophy. I never try to force the issue, and he appreciates that he can ask me questions without being pressured. Interestingly, I have more interesting religious conversations with him than many believers that I know.

All I can say to you is keep an open mind for the future, and "never say never". I believe that some people have a timeline that isn't always lined up with their expectations (or the hopes of their friends and family). Maybe there will be an event or a relationship that will trigger something in your mind that is not within reach right now.

Thanks again for sharing...
 
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Peripatetic

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I did read a fair amount of the "Why won't God heal amputees?" site. Almost every question can be addressed by three counter-arguments:

1. God chose not to be provable. If we could move a mountain by prayer, it would provide proof of a supernatural God, and faith would be moot.

2. God allows the devil to impose his will on Earth with limited intervention. There isn't a "battle" between good and evil. God created the devil, let him fall, and will end his reign on Earth when the time is right. If only good things happened to good people, and bad things happened to bad people, who would chose the bad road? God wants us to go against the tide of "the wold" to seek Him. This necessitates the evil and perceived lack of fairness.

3. God allows worldly people to twist good or neutral concepts into bad ones. Let's look at slavery, since that is so often raised. What we think of as slavery is the abhorrent mistreatment of humanity, taking away someone's freedom, and just plain evil behavior on the part of traders and owners. However, in Biblical times, Slavery was supposed to be part of a class system. People with nothing gave themselves over to "owners" so they had food an shelter. A sad circumstance, yes. But imagine a poor homeless man who was lovingly taken in by a farmer who could not afford to pay him, but treated him "like a brother" and provided for him. However, slavery was usually not done with love... corrupt people tied slavery to race and turned it into the horrendous act that it still is today in many countries. Similarly, corrupt people take a good thing such as religion and sometimes twist it into greed-based televangelism, and we all know what corrupt people did to the Catholic church a few hundred years ago.

We may not understand God's reasons for allowing it, but to nit-pick certain elements of a fallen word is not seeing the forest through the trees.
 
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NoMoreDoubts

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VertigoAge, you are correct that it accounts for what is seen. Points 2 and 3 particularly. But I have a problem with 1.
If god CHOSE not to be provable why did he give us false promises?
Consider provabley blantently incorrect lines in the bible:
Mark11:24 "[FONT=arial, Helvetica]Whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours"
Mathew 17:20 "
[/FONT][FONT=arial, Helvetica]For truly, I say to you, if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you."

"....
[/FONT][FONT=arial, Helvetica]Why wouldn't an omnipotent, all-knowing God have written it the way he meant it, in an understandable, clear, unambiguous, truthful, correct way? There isn't anything vague about, "Nothing will be impossible for you".... "

I know this is nit-picking certain words, but I have been told the Bible is perfect when clearly and provably it is not. Because the Bible is not perfect, does that mean it is within my rights to say that God could have done better? I don't think if God wrote the Bible I would be able to say that...

[/FONT][FONT=arial, Helvetica]I don't think I'm losing faith in God so much as the Bible ;)
I hold God in the highest esteem possible and to me, I don't think an omnipotent being (who created the entire universe in all its beauty) could be the creator of the Bible..
[/FONT]
 
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