Help!!! My pastor preaches 10% tithing.

[MercyBurst]

Interesting point sago. Anybody that makes house payments and pays a tithe is funding the tithe through debt. This is obvious from a business point of view. The tithe could have been used to pay off debt. If a tithe is required to receive a full measure of grace, then Jesus wasn't enough.

10% tithing indeed borders on cult. The churches where this message is preached are in debt up to their eyeballs. The leaders themselves are the poor stewards that robbed God. They should repent of their sins and stop robbing the congregation.

Also remember that when the first tithe was established Israel was a religious state, and so the tithe was the tax system.

By the time of Jesus the additional roman taxes were obviously causing some problems, because Jews felt like they were being called on twice (hence the question to Jesus on this).

Now, of course, we pay considerably more than 10% already towards the running of the government, towards ensuring that the very poorest don't starve to death and that we are protected from external threat.

So the logical, as well as the theological basis seems pretty scant.

As for the OP - if you don't have the money for health care, you'd need to take out loans to pay. Do you really think God wants you to take out loans to give to the church? Any church that expects that seems like it is bordering on the cult to me...

 

[Benoni]

I was part of a religious system of man who believed; if you can’t pay tithes for what ever reason; you’re a back slider; might be a little old lady who can‘t pay her rent on a fixed income. What a sad deal; it is time god’s people should help people; instead demand beyond tithes their needs.

There is a higher order then this; under not the law but grace; not under the old Levical order but the Melchisedec order. When ever there is a ministry out there that takes tithes I know they are trusting men for there livelihood and not God. All the ministries I support will give you God’s Word; and never; I mean never ask or beg for money. They will send boxes of tapes; what ever you ask. As well as literature that will take you six month to a year to read if you read thirty pages a day; a never take a dime; yes they will receive; but not take. They have no Hugh denomination or system to support them; only their faith in God will provide every need; some do not even have local bodies; yet god will provide. These men and women of God serve thousands of God’s people; And God takes care of them beyond your imagination.

Hebrews 7:5And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:
6But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.
7And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.
8And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.

I do; and have run across a ministry that sells God’s Word or take tithes; I just don’t support them. I do not believe in fleecing God’s flock. Jesus turned over the money changers table in the temple; still thousands of ministries all they do is beg; and steal from God’s people or sell God‘s Word as merchandise.

 

[Hismessenger]

MercyBburst,

There is a lot of truth in this statement you make;

10% tithing indeed borders on cult. The churches where this message is preached are in debt up to their eyeballs. The leaders themselves are the poor stewards that robbed God. They should repent of their sins and stop robbing the congregation.

It is by no coincidence that this is occuring, for Ezekiel spoke of this in chapter 34, about Pastors and sheperds who feed themselves instead of the flock. For a long time I did not see the correlation but now realize that Ezekiels Prophecy was talking about today. For there were no "Sheperds and Pastors" as is talked about in todays churches. This is also verified by the 23 chapter of Jeremiah. I believe it is there that it speaks of Pastors, long before they were called in the new testament.

They are only fulfilling the word of God and those who have ears to hear and eyes to see will not fall to the false teachings going forth today about the tithe.

hismessenger

 

[StevenL]

I agree that those "ministers" who hold to the "tithe" lie/law are no less "judaizers" than those whom the apostle Paul was exposing in many of his letters. They are in the same class of being as those Paul called "dogs" or "mutilators" and warned us to beware of them. The same principle is found in the following "church" law concepts:

We MUST keep a "sabbath" on Sun Day or else..... either not "saved" or not a "good christian."

We must collect money from our "laity" and build "temples" with it. Where in the heck else will Poor God live if we don't build Him a house?

We MUST at least weekly, preferably on the "sabbath" make a trek to this "temple", this "house of god" to perform a ritual called a "worship service". Or else...probably not saved or not a good christian.

We MUST submit to an organizational structure with "A" "pastor", "priest", "minister", "father", "reverend", etc at its helm.....or else, you're a rebel and a heretic.

You MUST adhere to (or at least claim to agree with) a Creed or written set of by-laws established by the organizational structure to be a member of that "body" or even in some cases to be considered a christian.

Many many other such unscriptural and wicked notions. But the church has been wholly saturated with this nonsense and the "sheep" just bleat and follow it as if it were the very Directive of God Himself.

Anyone who finds himself/herself involved in these false temples should RUN as fast as they can. When a man or woman starts beating you with a "tithe" law or any other "law", just smile and LEAVE them in their deception and ignorance.

The Dogs are outside the City.

 

[calluna]

Help!!! My pastor preaches 10% tithing.

What do your other pastors preach?

 

[Jerrysch]

We've been getting a lot of Malichi 3:10 lately, where I'm supposedly robbing God because my wife is sick, and no longer works, and we stopped tithing 10% several years ago as a result.


Is 10% tithing a legalistic doctrine in the NT church?


I quote from this source:

http://www.jewishpath.org/rrmarch2000.html#anchor1391160



thanks

No it isn't.

 

[Jerrysch]

My understanding is that tithing is legalistic if you are doing it because you feel you have to. However I don't feel it is legalistic if you choose to give 10% of your income so that you can give back to God what is rightfully his. I choose to tithe for the reason that it helps me to remember that none of it is mine, it's just on loan from God. Also it helps me to keep Jesus as Lord of my life, not to have him compete with my money or objects. And I find it also helps me to treat money with a bit more respect and remind me of the importance of being careful with how I spend it.

I know in 1 Cor 16:1-2 Paul is telling the Corinthians that they should store up their money once a week so when he comes it will be quickly gathered. Whether that is tithing or offerings I am unsure.

btw what are the 7 noaic commandments?
I've never heard of them before.

This is all very good, to be sure, yet this is not what the Bible indicates that a tithe is... The command to tithe was placed upon Israel, what you are describing could be considered an offering. You can give as much or as little as you like, yet it is not a tithe, it is an offering. Why is this distinction important? A tithe was a requirement placed upon Israel, it is not a requirement placed upon the church. Those who see to confuse Israel with the church often seek to burden the church with the tithe, and it is a burden if you are required to give even when you do not want to, or more importantly, when you can't.

 

[sunlover1]

2 Corinthians 9:7 (The Message)

6-7Remember: A stingy planter gets a stingy crop; a lavish planter gets a lavish crop. I want each of you to take plenty of time to think it over, and make up your own mind what you will give. That will protect you against sob stories and arm-twisting. God loves it when the giver delights in the giving.

2 Corinthians 9:7 (New Living Translation)

New Living Translation (NLT)


7 You must each decide in your heart how much to give. And don’t give reluctantly or in response to pressure. “For God loves a person who gives cheerfully.

2 Corinthians 9:7 (New Life Version)

New Life Version (NLV) Christian Literature International


7 Each man should give as he has decided in his heart. He should not give, wishing he could keep it. Or he should not give if he feels he has to give. God loves a man who gives because he wants to give.


2 Corinthians 9:7 (New International Reader's Version)

New International Reader's Version (NIRV)

7 You should each give what you have decided in your heart to give. You shouldn't give if you don't want to. You shouldn't give because you are forced to. God loves a cheerful giver.

2 Corinthians 9:7 (Worldwide English (New Testament))

7Everyone should give what he wants in his heart to give. He should be glad to give it, and should not give it because he was forced to give. `God loves a person who gives gladly.'

Cool.
So it's saying everyone oughta give, and oughta give
what they want, not what someone might try to
lay on their conscience.
What I want to give from my heart is over 10%,
but I give what I feel led to, and when I can.
And I call it tithing.

 

[Mathetes the kerux]

We've been getting a lot of Malichi 3:10 lately, where I'm supposedly robbing God because my wife is sick, and no longer works, and we stopped tithing 10% several years ago as a result.


Is 10% tithing a legalistic doctrine in the NT church?


I quote from this source:

http://www.jewishpath.org/rrmarch2000.html#anchor1391160



thanks

No. The NT model is that whatever we give we give from a joyful heart and from the perspective that ALL that we have is the Lord's anyway. The tithe is mentioned in the NT in Hebrews concerning Melch., but it is not commanded.

BUT ONE MUST GIVE . . .

 

[Benoni]

No. The NT model is that whatever we give we give from a joyful heart and from the perspective that ALL that we have is the Lord's anyway. The tithe is mentioned in the NT in Hebrews concerning Melch., but it is not commanded.

BUT ONE MUST GIVE . . .

That was my point....

 

[Hismessenger]

Go and read Dueteronomy 14. The tithe was never about giving to the church but rather giving glory to God for the provision he blessed Israel with. Read all the scripture on tithing and not just the one about Melchezidex and Abraham and Malachi 3. For they only present the side most stressed by the money mongers. Read All the scripture on tithing and you will find that a lot of what is said about them is never preached from the pulpit. They know the truth, yet choose to deny the power thereof. Thier end awaits them. Don't fall prey to the deception. Jesus became our once and for all sacrifice. I cannot in good conscious betray my Savors death listening to the likes of men.

To do so would be to deny His sacrifice and no man will cause me to do that. You place your soul in jeopardy every time you do so for the tithe was of the law, even though it first appeared in Abrahams time. The word says that He who attempts to keep any part of the law must keep ALL the law. To fail in any one of them means you fail at all, even if you tithe religiously which is what the false teachers want you to do. Be religious, not spiritual.

Why put your head back on the chopping block when Christ has removed the penalty of death from sin. If you fail at the law, you sin. the wages of sin is death. Please, please, please read on tithing for yourself. Don't listen to me or any other man, but let the spirit lead you into all truth.

hismessenger

 

[A Brother In Christ]

2 cor 8:12-15 ...... grudgingly=grief romans 13:1-8 Give the government there 's
2 cor 9:7... cheerful giver.... thus this person is spiritual a natural man does not do this!
1 tim 6:10

1 jn 3:16-18
2 thes 3:10 do not work you do not eat...

titus 1:10-11
2 tim 4:3-4

tithing is more than 10% it about 25% then add more for government... King David in OT
1 OT giving... lev 27:30-33 10% of 100
2 duet 14:22 9% of 90
3 duet 14:28 8% of 81

Numbers 18:20-26 to levi's
Mal 3:8-14 is not giving

 

[Hismessenger]

Tithing is a deception used by the devil to get religious people to believe that they are doing what is right in God's eyes when in truth, when Christ came out of the grave, only His sacrifice is worthy to go before God. When you tithe according to the law, you are desecrating the blood of Christ with worthless self righteousness. Christ is the end of the law for all who believe. It is no longer by works of the law, Tithing, but by His spirit. Your belief that He has kept the law perfectly and thusly imputes that righteousness to whomever He chooses is what grants you eternal life. No amount of money in the world can buy you into God's kingdom.

It has been said that we tithe because of our salvation, but the truth is, why do you not fulfill all the other law as is required of You if you belong to the Holy Spirit. He isn't going to pick and choose what laws he would have you to keep, espescially one where you are looking to get something out of what it is that you are doing. If you are lead by the Spirit of God then the law would not be a problem for you to keep in Him. He did it all perfectly so what is your excuse for only keeping a few of the laws when the word says
Gal; 3:10
{For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse. For it is written, Cursed is everyone who does not CONTINUE IN ALL THINGS WHICH ARE WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW, TO DO THEM}

So if you want to curse yourself, continue on in tithing according to the doctrines of man. Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us. In other words, Jesus took you head off the guilllotine, why do you go running back? It's Satan perversion that keeps you in bondage. You are no longer cursed with a curse for Christ removed the curse of the law. Don't listen to these false prophets who promise you reward for your tithing. they are only bringing damnation to themselves and anyone else who will fall prey to their lies.

Lastly, if tithing worked as it is preached why is there not more abundance in the churches in understanding of who God is. Tithing is preached for gain and if you fall prey to the deception, you loose reward in heaven if you are fortunate enough to make it there.

hismessenger

 

[KahanistChristianNoahide]

btw what are the 7 noaic commandments?
I've never heard of them before.

The Seven Laws of Noah, were given to Noah after the Ark settled once again on the Earth.

They were:

1. Believe in God, do not worship idols
2. Do not blashpheme
3. Do not commit sexual immoral acts
4. Do not murder
5. Do not steal
6. Do not be cruel to animals
7. Establish courts of justice

The were/are binding on all gentiles (the compromise between Paul and James at Jerusalem is based on these laws)

Tithing was not a part of the commandments to Gentiles, the 10% figure was a mitzvah that applies only to Jews. The NT does tell us to give and help others though. So, whilst we should tithe, or give to others continually, I guess we don't have to.

 

[billwald]

(to anyone) Well, if you don't want to tithe to your local church, do you contribute something on a regular basis or are you a freeloader?

Say your income is sufficiently high that a tithe to your local congregation would be disruptive then I am sure that God would OK a donation to another charity, mission agency, or whatever.

 

[sunlover1]

The NT does tell us to give and help others though. So, whilst we should tithe, or give to others continually, I guess we don't have to.

So if you do choose to tithe would God's promise
still stand? That he's rebuke the devourer on your behalf?

(to anyone) Well, if you don't want to tithe to your local church, do you contribute something on a regular basis or are you a freeloader?

Say your income is sufficiently high that a tithe to your local congregation would be disruptive then I am sure that God would OK a donation to another charity, mission agency, or whatever.

Interesting thoughts billwald.
If none of the people tithed or gave,
how would the church pay the bills?
Or arent they supposed to have bills, bill?

 

[Job2]

I tithe 10%.

 

[Hismessenger]

Sunlover1,

Yes the word says that we are to give but it goes further to say what it is that we are to give. To two important things which the tither/minister play down is that, 1, We are to give praises back to God for His gracious supply of our needs which is what Duet. 14 talks about and which you will never here a tithing minister come near. He doesn't want you to know the truth for then he would have no way to maintain their counterfiet sanctuary's.

The second thing comes from the mouth of Christ Himself and it follows the principle, freely you have rceived, freely give. Now ask yourself, is you salary freely given or do you have to work for it. That alone should tell you that what is being preached as the tithe is purely a lie. Christ gave a parable about the sower which is where you post is pointing. Cor. 9:7.

Christ explained that He who supplies seed to the sower is God. The seed to be sown, is the word of God. How is this so, the word is freely given, therefore, you have an obligation to give it freely. Not to charge as so many of the false ministers do. This is confirmed in Matt 13:1, Mark 4:1 and luke 8:4-15. That which you are to sow bountifully is the word of God. All else is as dust in the wind. Nothing else will bring true blessings to you as much as you service to the truth of His word. May you be blessed with true understanding.

hismessenger

 

[BearFromJapan]

you should always give enough money to the church/missions/ministries so that you feel uncomfortable, and where it may be a bit of a risk.


God wants our full, undivided, complete trust. it is impossible to please God without faith.

 

[billwald]

Hypothetical situation: Bill Gates or some other billionaire should get himself saved and join his local church of consisting dairy farmers and blue collar laborers, average and median family income around $60k. Should he tithe to his local church?