Having trouble picking military job

[Sybaris]

It's difficult for a non-Christian to fathom a Christian's attitude.

Wow.
Wow, what a stereotype. Incredible. I went back to reading the newspaper after that line.
You oughtta make your statement a topic in the Ethics & Morality thread on the Discussion & Debate forum.

 

[college4christ81]

You can't think of it that way. There's a reason you walked away, so don't think any other recruiter will look harshly at you. You have to be up front and honest with your recruiter now and, if you decide to walk away, your future recruiter if you decide to follow through with this or another branch. It's all about you. You need to have that warm, fuzzy feeling of knowing you're making the right decision. Good luck to you.

Well I decided to stick with culinary arts and trust God to guide me. The reason I went with culinary arts is cause I want to gain some skills while I'm in and I think it was you ICor1311 that said is the Navy more important then the job and well I decided its important that I have a job I can be even some what happy with but its also important that I even have my foot in the door with at the very least being DEPed in. So I decided to stick with culinary arts. Though my recruiter still thinks I may change my mind but he did put in the request for the change so I can get the culinary specialist job.

 

[ICor1311]

Well I decided to stick with culinary arts and trust God to guide me. The reason I went with culinary arts is cause I want to gain some skills while I'm in and I think it was you ICor1311 that said is the Navy more important then the job and well I decided its important that I have a job I can be even some what happy with but its also important that I even have my foot in the door with at the very least being DEPed in. So I decided to stick with culinary arts. Though my recruiter still thinks I may change my mind but he did put in the request for the change so I can get the culinary specialist job.

C4C81, I wish you the best of luck in your future endeavors. Trust God in your decisions and you'll be just fine.

In Him,

ICor

 

[rppearso]

I wish I could still find the article but I noticed in all of this discussion nothing was said about the military farming out people of one MOS to another. There was a case of air force personal being farmed out to pull security for the army. There is nothing more of a slap in the face than signing up for an airforce soft skill MOS and being told your pulling gaurd duty in some patch of desert for the army, but nobody talks about this stuff.

 

[Gwenyfur]

And once again rppearso...it's *not* about you! You couldn't even get the concept of saluting a Lt Col or the concept of being a part of a team, let alone the concept of an oath being your bond! Coward!

Yes, you might wind up in a sandbox...but I did it...and came home, many women have done it...and apparently many women are braver, and have more honor than some men. At least we had enough strength and honor to keep our oaths, and perform our duties with honor and pride.

And yes...war is hell...there's no escaping that fact...it's stressful, it's intense, but when you see the gratefulness in a mother's face, or the light in a child's eyes for what you've done to help them...all that stress melts away and you realize that G_d put you there for just that reason...and the ooorah's from your Gunny, or your CO, come to mean less...you realize what's important are the people you're protecting...both abroad and at home...

The medals are junk, the ribbons ... I could care less ... but I will always remember the embrace and tears of a grateful mother who's language I couldn't speak, who's dress was so different than my own, who's faith was different...and while I stood in the uniform of a US Marine, and she in a burkha, we were also 2 mothers protecting our children ... my child was spared the sight of violence until her own deployment...hers was there to witness the murder of his father and the murder and rape of his aunt...

Yeah...we were on our way to a recovery site...just stumbled into it...but G-d has a plan for everyone and everything...there are no happenstances...

If you feel led to join the service...then go for it, serve gladly...no matter what MOS you may have...you'll be contributing to something far greater than any 1 person anywhere...a team effort requires many members on the team, each doing a different job, to make the right things happen...

Even in the culinary arts ... if people aren't fed well, they can't perform well...

 

[3girls2dogs]

I wish I could still find the article but I noticed in all of this discussion nothing was said about the military farming out people of one MOS to another. There was a case of air force personal being farmed out to pull security for the army. There is nothing more of a slap in the face than signing up for an airforce soft skill MOS and being told your pulling gaurd duty in some patch of desert for the army, but nobody talks about this stuff.

Nobody talks about it because most people realize it happens and don't have a meltdown over it. In your contract, it is all about the good of the military. That is what it all comes down to. Don't sign something you didn't read and then blame it on the contract. It's your own fault for not knowing what you signed. Don't blame the recruiter either. He can tell you a book of lies (if that is what you think he did), but if you didn't bother to read the contract, you have only yourself to blame.

As far as moving people around. I don't know how the Army works, but when people are FAP'd out to another area, it is usually the ones who aren't stellar at the job they are doing, if you get what I mean.

I would have so much more respect for your hatred of the military if you had actually done your contract and then got out. At least you would have a base for your argument. But you couldn't hack it, and now you want to blame the service instead of putting the blame where it belongs. I have no issue with people who do their job and finish in an honorable way, but then talk crap about the military. They have earned that right. Your honorable discharge with an RE-3 means nothing. If it were truly honorable, they would want you back if you changed your mind, the RE-3 says that isn't true. You say it has no code (which, Gwenny, the Army does actually do, but we had to look it up and it's rare), means the problem was yours and not theirs or health related.

Anyone who joins the Army and is shocked and irritated at the idea of being enlisted and saluting an officer, well, they clearly wouldn't cut it when it mattered anyway, so I am so glad you bailed, to be honest. I wouldn't want someone with as little integrity as you covering my husband's six if he were in trouble.

 

[rppearso]

Nobody talks about it because most people realize it happens and don't have a meltdown over it. In your contract, it is all about the good of the military. That is what it all comes down to. Don't sign something you didn't read and then blame it on the contract. It's your own fault for not knowing what you signed. Don't blame the recruiter either. He can tell you a book of lies (if that is what you think he did), but if you didn't bother to read the contract, you have only yourself to blame.

As far as moving people around. I don't know how the Army works, but when people are FAP'd out to another area, it is usually the ones who aren't stellar at the job they are doing, if you get what I mean.

I would have so much more respect for your hatred of the military if you had actually done your contract and then got out. At least you would have a base for your argument. But you couldn't hack it, and now you want to blame the service instead of putting the blame where it belongs. I have no issue with people who do their job and finish in an honorable way, but then talk crap about the military. They have earned that right. Your honorable discharge with an RE-3 means nothing. If it were truly honorable, they would want you back if you changed your mind, the RE-3 says that isn't true. You say it has no code (which, Gwenny, the Army does actually do, but we had to look it up and it's rare), means the problem was yours and not theirs or health related.

Anyone who joins the Army and is shocked and irritated at the idea of being enlisted and saluting an officer, well, they clearly wouldn't cut it when it mattered anyway, so I am so glad you bailed, to be honest. I wouldn't want someone with as little integrity as you covering my husband's six if he were in trouble.

you are correct it is my fault for signing up in the first place. But the fact of the matter is most people dont know if they are cut out for it when they are sitting at the recruiters desk, you dont know until you are in it but by then its to late which is why I take away the sugar coating that you all put on military service, if someone still wants to join after they have heard what the military really is without the sugar, whip cream cherry on top coating I say they should join. Anyways I do not feel that what I did was dishonorable, I showed up to drill when I was suppost to and did not leave until I was dismissed, yes I requested the discharge but the discharge was granted, if it had not been granted I would have finished my contract as an OC. I dont know how saluting has anything to do with my integrity or credibility, also how is unwillfully shifing someones MOS honorable or acting in manners totally inconsistant with godly pricipals honorable, it is truely sad all that goes on in the military that is deplorable but yet accepted, and im not talking about "war" in general or "having to kill someone or be shot at" im talking about drill sgt behavior and barracks behavior its totally unaccptable but people in the military just look the other way. That is what I am grasping at, I want to respect people in the military but no one ever just straight up rebukes training practices or explains how it is even close to honorable they just respond with inflamitory remarks, I only rebuke behavior that I view as unaccepable. Why are do so many christians just ignore like half of the new testimate when it comes to basic training and the military, no one would accept this type of behavior in the real world and I disagree that you need to be malice and beligerant to be effective at war fighting, do you think the israli army of the old testimate under God were a bunch of foul mouth, heavy handed heartless malice people or do you think they were godly, I understand no one is perfect but military training was so far over the top I could not imagine how any christian could even sort of justify such actions.

 

[3girls2dogs]

you are correct it is my fault for signing up in the first place. But the fact of the matter is most people dont know if they are cut out for it when they are sitting at the recruiters desk, you dont know until you are in it but by then its to late which is why I take away the sugar coating that you all put on military service, if someone still wants to join after they have heard what the military really is without the sugar, whip cream cherry on top coating I say they should join. Anyways I do not feel that what I did was dishonorable, I showed up to drill when I was suppost to and did not leave until I was dismissed, yes I requested the discharge but the discharge was granted, if it had not been granted I would have finished my contract as an OC. I dont know how saluting has anything to do with my integrity or credibility, also how is unwillfully shifing someones MOS honorable or acting in manners totally inconsistant with godly pricipals honorable, it is truely sad all that goes on in the military that is deplorable but yet accepted, and im not talking about "war" in general or "having to kill someone or be shot at" im talking about drill sgt behavior and barracks behavior its totally unaccptable but people in the military just look the other way. That is what I am grasping at, I want to respect people in the military but no one ever just straight up rebukes training practices or explains how it is even close to honorable they just respond with inflamitory remarks, I only rebuke behavior that I view as unaccepable. Why are do so many christians just ignore like half of the new testimate when it comes to basic training and the military, no one would accept this type of behavior in the real world and I disagree that you need to be malice and beligerant to be effective at war fighting, do you think the israli army of the old testimate under God were a bunch of foul mouth, heavy handed heartless malice people or do you think they were godly, I understand no one is perfect but military training was so far over the top I could not imagine how any christian could even sort of justify such actions.

rrpearso, I am going to tell you something you do not want to hear. People admit the military is hard all the time. I admit it. My husband is preparing for his third combat tour as I type. He works hard, but he takes great honor in being a Marine.

What you don't seem to understand is the honor and distinction that comes with honoring a contract. With following through with something, even though you don't like it. With testing how far you can take yourself before you give in.

The reason people that you describe are dishonorable is because, in order for you/them to behave the way they do, someone else has to do the job they were intended to do. The reason I find you dishonorable is because you refuse to admit that the problem lay solely with you and not the military in your situation.

There is no candy coating, there is no whipped cream with a cherry on top. But there is family, and not the one that lives in your house, but the one that lives in your town, on your base, on your block, in your community. It's hard on a wife, yes, but we are here for each other. This makes us, and our marriages at times, stronger. I now know what I am capable of. It has helped me grow in my own life as my husband has grown in his career. I know now that if the car breaks down right after he leaves, and I'm sick, and the kids are fighting, I can handle it. I know he can be gone and still love me. I know I can worry about his safety but stay sane enough to raise his children without fear. I know we can make a strong family example of how one doesn't take off when things don't go the exact way they wanted them to.

My husband makes no choices about his career without me. He isn't whipped, he respects me, finds me intelligent, and we discuss these things. So it is wrong for me to stand next to him each time he reenlists and think of bailing. Just because something is hard that doesn't mean it isn't worth doing. Maybe God wanted you to test yourself. Have you ever considered that?

As far as the "break them to make them" mentality of schools and boot camp, it is essential to see how far these men can be taken. It is essential to training, especially now, to prove that these men and women can perform under pressure.

My problem with your posts is that you didn't even finish one guard tour, yet you claim to know all the evils of the military. If you want someone to know the evils of the military, I will be glad to tell them, but there is balance. Being a military family is hard. VERY HARD. But it is rewarding and worth it to the vast majority.

So please stop adding so much personal anger and hatred to your rants. You have so much less experience than the others that post here, and that is why, perhaps, they tend to not pay attention to what you post.

And with all due respect, I find it so hard to believe you have the degrees and job you claim to have in the engineering field when the simplest grasp of basic grammar is far beyond your reach. I know that sounds like an insult, but honestly, I am trying to find out if any of anything you say is true at this point.

The saluting of an officer is a requirement. That you won't offer the officer the respect they deserve (whether you agree with it or not) shows a lack of integrity, but not only that, it is a breach of the UCMJ, which you swore to uphold, which once again is shows a lack of integrity.

Point the finger back at yourself, admit that you are the reason that you never even finished your first contract, then maybe I will take the rest of what you say seriously.

 

[QuiltAngel]

Grr, when are they going to get this site working right again. I had a rather lengthy reply written only to get lost on posting it. I will not be able to write it the way I did the first time.

Someone let me know when this site is working smoothly again.

 

[QuiltAngel]

The subject of honor and dishonorable. Wow, that is a topic.

I personally know of two people who are in the process of being medically discharged during Basic Training. In my opinion these two have served with honor because they enlisted with the hope of serving their country for a period of time. They feel like they are failures because they could not complete their commitment. To me, there is more honor in someone serving and having to be medically discharged than someone who started and decided they did not like the culture of the Army, it was offensive to them, One who found a way to break his contract for what appears to some of us as selfish reasons.

Why is a draft dodger dishonorable? Let's see, they did whatever they could to avoid serving when they were called upon to serve. Many times these were also for selfish reasons. Those of us who are old enough to remember the last draft have views on draft dodgers that may be different than those who don't remember it. I had male relatives who received the educational deferment, others who turned down rather handsome educational scholarship packages to have a year of two of fun since they knew they were going to be drafted and go to war and others who went ahead and enlisted. These relatives each dealt with the draft in their own way, but all dealt with it in legal ways provided at the time. While I do have a problem looking back at the deferments that were available, the country did provide those outs for those who took advantage of them. Those who did whatever they could to avoid being drafted usually resorted to things that involved being jailed or leaving the country. Not exactly people with honor and integrity at the time the country needed them.

So yeah, someone who enlisted and then broke their contract after a short time because they did not like the Army is maybe a half step above those who were draft dodgers. Those who served, but for whatever could not complete their contract due to injuries or such are on the honor ladder at the level of those who serve honorable.

There are a couple of verses that come to mind when it comes to serving our neighbors and our country:

Mark 12
28 And one of the scribes came up and heard them disputing with one another, and seeing that he answered them well, asked him, “Which commandment is the most important of all?” 29 Jesus answered, “The most important is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. 30 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ 31 The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

and
John 15
12 “This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends.

Can you imagine how much love it takes someone to enter the military knowing that they may be called upon to lay down their life for others, people they don't even know, but know that the country is worth it? I can't think of too many instances where people are that unselfish to do such a thing.

 

[rppearso]

The subject of honor and dishonorable. Wow, that is a topic.

I personally know of two people who are in the process of being medically discharged during Basic Training. In my opinion these two have served with honor because they enlisted with the hope of serving their country for a period of time. They feel like they are failures because they could not complete their commitment. To me, there is more honor in someone serving and having to be medically discharged than someone who started and decided they did not like the culture of the Army, it was offensive to them, One who found a way to break his contract for what appears to some of us as selfish reasons.

Why is a draft dodger dishonorable? Let's see, they did whatever they could to avoid serving when they were called upon to serve. Many times these were also for selfish reasons. Those of us who are old enough to remember the last draft have views on draft dodgers that may be different than those who don't remember it. I had male relatives who received the educational deferment, others who turned down rather handsome educational scholarship packages to have a year of two of fun since they knew they were going to be drafted and go to war and others who went ahead and enlisted. These relatives each dealt with the draft in their own way, but all dealt with it in legal ways provided at the time. While I do have a problem looking back at the deferments that were available, the country did provide those outs for those who took advantage of them. Those who did whatever they could to avoid being drafted usually resorted to things that involved being jailed or leaving the country. Not exactly people with honor and integrity at the time the country needed them.

So yeah, someone who enlisted and then broke their contract after a short time because they did not like the Army is maybe a half step above those who were draft dodgers. Those who served, but for whatever could not complete their contract due to injuries or such are on the honor ladder at the level of those who serve honorable.

There are a couple of verses that come to mind when it comes to serving our neighbors and our country:

Mark 12
28 And one of the scribes came up and heard them disputing with one another, and seeing that he answered them well, asked him, “Which commandment is the most important of all?” 29 Jesus answered, “The most important is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. 30 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ 31 The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

and
John 15
12 “This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends.

Can you imagine how much love it takes someone to enter the military knowing that they may be called upon to lay down their life for others, people they don't even know, but know that the country is worth it? I can't think of too many instances where people are that unselfish to do such a thing.

Edit, its unfortunate that christians are not united and fight amongst each other, despite what you posted I said nothing inflamitory and I was phycologicly sacared from the treatment I recieved. Just ask yourself this question, what if things had not turned out so well for your daughter would you treat her like you treat me and defend the military abover your own daugher?

 

[Gwenyfur]

That's just it rppearso...the people in here *chose* to serve, or are considering service...

and since you opted out and got yourself a blank RE-3 and got yourself outa being deployed...well...sorry, you aren't getting any respect for that...

You did sign, you did take an oath and when the time came, you cut and run like a coward.

I don't care if anyone with honor questions the service...I questioned it a lot over the years...

But I'm not gonna stand around while you make everyone here who has served with honor, or is considering serving with honor listen to your whining disseration of how evil, mean, unchristian, brutal, psychologically scarring, and any other trash you want to post.

done.

 

[QuiltAngel]

Edit, its unfortunate that christians are not united and fight amongst each other, despite what you posted I said nothing inflamitory and I was phycologicly sacared from the treatment I recieved. Just ask yourself this question, what if things had not turned out so well for your daughter would you treat her like you treat me and defend the military abover your own daugher?

If you were psychologically scarred from your treatment, I hope and pray that you have received treatment to help you deal with these scars so that you can come to terms with things and move forward instead of looking back all the time. I am sorry that the Army turned out to be a bad thing for you, but isn't it time to learn how to move forward?

Now, as far as my son, that is a very hard question to answer, because I don't see that this would have ever been the issue for him as it was for you. Maybe it had to do with the fact that he did lots of research and knew lots of people who are currently serving or who have served so he was well prepared for what might happen. From what he tells us, while there were tough times, it was not nearly as bad was what he was expecting.

Does he sometimes question why things are done the way they do? Sure. He finds people to talk with about what he is thinking, gets another perspective, deals with the situation and moves on. This is how he has lived his life. Yes, he has endured situations in his life that were not easy to deal with. He was taught the way to handle things. Now that he is in the service, there are a couple of people he calls when he wants to deal with things. I know, you can't do that in Basic, yet he got through Basic fine.

So, because of the way we raised our kids, it is hard to answer your hypothetical question as it is hard to imagine that things would have turned out any different for my son. At the least, it would have been, you gave it your best shot, you lived up to your commitment, where do we go from here to move forward with your life. What did you learn from this experience to help you in your life? It did not work out for you the way you thought it would and that is okay. That is what would have happened in my family.

 

[Gwenyfur]

Edit, its unfortunate that christians are not united and fight amongst each other, despite what you posted I said nothing inflamitory and I was phycologicly sacared from the treatment I recieved. Just ask yourself this question, what if things had not turned out so well for your daughter would you treat her like you treat me and defend the military abover your own daugher?

This never would have been an issue for my daughter...
why? you ask?

I raised her to have respect for those in authority over her. She was one of the only kids in her school to address her teachers as "ma'am" and "sir"...she was one of the few kids in the neighborhood that when another parent spoke to her it was "yes/no ma'am/sir", and she was also the only kid in the neighborhood to address those parents as "Mr or Mrs" instead of by their first names...why? simple: respect!

She went in knowing how hard it would be...she was raised by a Marine...and kids aren't stupid...they listen even when you think they can't hear.

She's seen the physical therapy I went through after getting wounded...she saw me through the surgeries after my last injury and she watched me use a cane for years until my knee replacement last year...

She already had *seen* the risks...she *knew*...

So you're hypothetical is irrelevant...as is your "traumatic" experience...

at some point in everyone's life ... they reach a point where they can whine and dwell on the past and play the victim card ... or they can SUCK IT UP, and MOVE ON.

 

[rppearso]

This never would have been an issue for my daughter...
why? you ask?

I raised her to have respect for those in authority over her. She was one of the only kids in her school to address her teachers as "ma'am" and "sir"...she was one of the few kids in the neighborhood that when another parent spoke to her it was "yes/no ma'am/sir", and she was also the only kid in the neighborhood to address those parents as "Mr or Mrs" instead of by their first names...why? simple: respect!

She went in knowing how hard it would be...she was raised by a Marine...and kids aren't stupid...they listen even when you think they can't hear.

She's seen the physical therapy I went through after getting wounded...she saw me through the surgeries after my last injury and she watched me use a cane for years until my knee replacement last year...

She already had *seen* the risks...she *knew*...

So you're hypothetical is irrelevant...as is your "traumatic" experience...

at some point in everyone's life ... they reach a point where they can whine and dwell on the past and play the victim card ... or they can SUCK IT UP, and MOVE ON.

Good point, I agree. Although it is never the less fun to debate as I have done so in another part of the forums. You may not have fun debating but I do.

 

[3girls2dogs]

Good point, I agree. Although it is never the less fun to debate as I have done so in another part of the forums. You may not have fun debating but I do.

That's the thing, though. This isn't a debate forum.

 

[rppearso]

That's the thing, though. This isn't a debate forum.

Do any of you actually like to debate regardless of the intent of this forum, because after all these forums rules are writen by people, it seems as though some of you are veminatly opposed to any form of debate, I think that is extremely wierd considering it takes a more aggressive person to be in the military and to shy away from debate is not what I would expect from military members but that is alot of what I find. I feel it is strange. I feel that maybe the military forums should be broken into support and debate instead of farming it over to another forum where all sorts of other topics are discussed, there are enough military topics to debate to have a military specific debate forum.

 

[Gwenyfur]

I'm gonna break this down for you in very simple terms so you can understand it:

THIS IS NOT A DEBATE FORUM

WHAT YOU WANT TO MAKE IT DOESN'T MATTER


STOP TRYING TO DEBATE IN HERE

IF WE WANTED TO DEBATE WE'D GO TO THOSE FORUMS!

STOP LITTERING OUR SUPPORT FORUM WITH YOUR DEBATES!

 

[justanobserver]

I'm gonna break this down for you in very simple terms so you can understand it:

THIS IS NOT A DEBATE FORUM

WHAT YOU WANT TO MAKE IT DOESN'T MATTER


STOP TRYING TO DEBATE IN HERE

IF WE WANTED TO DEBATE WE'D GO TO THOSE FORUMS!

STOP LITTERING OUR SUPPORT FORUM WITH YOUR DEBATES!

way to go Gwenny!!

However, do you think you broke it down simple enough tho????

get some, Gunny Gwenny!

 

[Gwenyfur]

rrrrrrrrrr

ooorah brother! S/F!!!