Have we done away with the law by means of faith?

Xeno.of.athens

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there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised man if he learns to believe, and the Gentile because he believes. Does that mean that we are using faith to rob the law of its force? No, we are setting the law on its right footing. ... You see, then, that it takes deeds as well as faith if a man is to be justified.

The law is not gone, it is in its right place. We are indeed justified by faith and we are justified by works, as the scriptures say (Romans 3:28, James 2:24)
 
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Maria Billingsley

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there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised man if he learns to believe, and the Gentile because he believes. Does that mean that we are using faith to rob the law of its force? No, we are setting the law on its right footing. ... You see, then, that it takes deeds as well as faith if a man is to be justified.

The law is not gone, it is in its right place. We are indeed justified by faith and we are justified by works, as the scriptures say (Romans 3:28, James 2:24)
The law has been "fulfilled " through Jesus Christ of Nazareth. The law, given to a chosen people ,brought in the Messiah through its remnant, those who were faithful to God. We now know that it has come into fulfillment by love and not by works.
Blessings.
 
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Xeno.of.athens

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The law has been "fulfilled " through Jesus Christ of Nazareth. The law, given to a chosen people ,brought in the Messiah through its remnant, those who were faithful to God. We now know that it has come into fulfillment by love and not by works.
Blessings.
Except that saint Paul says that we establish the Law. And he adds that it is the doers of the law who are justified before God. Saint James notes that we are justified by works and not by faith alone; so, we rightly state and we rightly conclude that we are justified by faith and deeds and not by faith without deeds.
 
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Ivan Hlavanda

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there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised man if he learns to believe, and the Gentile because he believes. Does that mean that we are using faith to rob the law of its force? No, we are setting the law on its right footing. ... You see, then, that it takes deeds as well as faith if a man is to be justified.

The law is not gone, it is in its right place. We are indeed justified by faith and we are justified by works, as the scriptures say (Romans 3:28, James 2:24)
Jesus is the perfect sacrifice. He paid for all my sins on the cross, and satisfied God's wrath for me. He was judged in my place. He died on the cross, but because He was without sin, the punishment of death was invalid. In Him I was made righteous. In Him, i was reconciled to God.

God gave everything He has for my salvation, He gave Himself. And because He is the perfect sacrifice for all my sins, there is nothing else that needs to be added, and there is nothing to be added.

Either Christ paid for your sins or He has not. Why you trying to add your deeds to it? Was God's death not enough?
 
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Soyeong

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there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised man if he learns to believe, and the Gentile because he believes. Does that mean that we are using faith to rob the law of its force? No, we are setting the law on its right footing. ... You see, then, that it takes deeds as well as faith if a man is to be justified.

The law is not gone, it is in its right place. We are indeed justified by faith and we are justified by works, as the scriptures say (Romans 3:28, James 2:24)
When we do good works, then the significance of that action is not that they are doing something that results in becoming justified as if we could earn our justification as a wage, but rather the significance is that we are expressing our faith that we ought to be doers of good works, and it is by that faith that we are justified. When we do good works, we are testifying about God's goodness, which is why our good works bring glory to God (Matthew 5:16), and by testifying about God's goodness we are also expressing the belief that God is good. So there there is a direct connection the character traits that we believe that we ought to practice and what we believe to be true about the character of who God is, practicing those character traits of God is the way to believe in Him, and it is through that faith that we are justified.
 
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BobRyan

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there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised man if he learns to believe, and the Gentile because he believes. Does that mean that we are using faith to rob the law of its force? No, we are setting the law on its right footing. ... You see, then, that it takes deeds as well as faith if a man is to be justified.

The law is not gone, it is in its right place. We are indeed justified by faith and we are justified by works, as the scriptures say (Romans 3:28, James 2:24)
Rom 3:31 "What then? Do we nullify the Law by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the Law"
1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"
Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God and their faith in Jesus"
Eph 6:2 "Honor your father and mother" in that still-valid unit of TEN "is the first commandment WITH a promise" .... still

the NEW Covenant "Writes My Law on their heart and mind" -- Rom 8
 
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Soyeong

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Jesus is the perfect sacrifice. He paid for all my sins on the cross, and satisfied God's wrath for me. He was judged in my place. He died on the cross, but because He was without sin, the punishment of death was invalid. In Him I was made righteous. In Him, i was reconciled to God.

God gave everything He has for my salvation, He gave Himself. And because He is the perfect sacrifice for all my sins, there is nothing else that needs to be added, and there is nothing to be added.

Either Christ paid for your sins or He has not. Why you trying to add your deeds to it? Was God's death not enough?
Being made righteous means being made in someone who is a doer of righteous works, so doing righteous works is not add our own works on top of being made righteous, but rather it is in accordance with what we have been made to be. In Titus 2:11-13, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so God graciously teaching us to do these works is itself part of the content of His gift of salvation and participating in this training is not adding our own deeds on top of God's gift as if Christ's death were not enough. Moreover, in Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's law is the way to believe in what Jesus accomplished through the cross (Acts 21:20), not adding our own works as though what he accomplished were not enough.

The content of a gift can itself be the experience of doing something, such as giving someone the opportunity to experience driving a Ferrari for an hour, where the gift requires them to do the work of driving it in order to have that experience, but where doing that work contributes nothings towards earning the opportunity to drive it. Similarly, the content of God's gift of eternal life is the experience of knowing Him and Jesus (John 17:3) and the gift of God's law is His instructions for how to have that experience (Exodus 33:13, Matthew 7:23), so our obedience to it is not about contributing our own efforts to earning eternal life.
 
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eleos1954

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there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised man if he learns to believe, and the Gentile because he believes. Does that mean that we are using faith to rob the law of its force? No, we are setting the law on its right footing. ... You see, then, that it takes deeds as well as faith if a man is to be justified.

The law is not gone, it is in its right place. We are indeed justified by faith and we are justified by works, as the scriptures say (Romans 3:28, James 2:24)
Romans 3:28

say it is by faith ...

and we know if we have faith ... we will have works.

Faith first

“Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law” (Romans 3:28)

Works are the evidence of our faith.
 
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RandyPNW

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I just answered this question in another forum--I'll reproduce it here. It answers the question by explaining this as a semantical problem. Mind you, this is a perennial problem, so you will have to focus....

The whole problem over "works" in Christian Salvation is a semantics problem. I don't think anybody would argue that one must *receive Christ* to be saved.

Someone may then say, No, we don't have to receive Christ or believe in Christ because that would then be a "work," and we can't do a "work" to be saved! But Jesus did say there is a "work" we must do to be saved, and it is a different class of "work" that doesn't actually "earn" Salvation, but still is a prerequisite for Salvation, and that is to believe in him.

Clearly, "works" of this kind are required in both the Law and the Gospel. A person must agree to be under the Covenant of Law and then do the works of the Law to benefit from the forgiveness made available under the Law. And in the Gospel, one must believe in Christ and then obey Christ to enjoy the benefits of Salvation. These are necessary prerequisites, and have nothing to do with "earning" something in the sense of "paying for it."

The atonement of Christ was a "payment" that only Christ could provide. But there is still prerequisites for our coming to enjoy the benefits of that atonement. When we receive Christ we don't just say "Yes," and then go our own way. To say "yes" to Christ is to actually choose to follow him, showing that by our obedience to his commands.

But the Law and the Gospel are two separate systems, and we should not confuse them. Both the Law and the Gospel are moral systems, and have required a similar morality, as well as the same spirit, from each system. Both systems have required moral works.

However, the Law required that morality be joined to a single covenant system we call the Law, replete with temple, priesthood, and sacrificial system. It was purification accomplished by sinful Israel, sanctified by God's word. However, this system was intended to bless only in this life, and could neither completely purify from sin (legally) nor promise life in eternity.

On the other hand, morality was released from being under the Law in Christ's New Testament system. People are now required to be just and to love others, just as under the Law. But they are no longer required to live under a system of temple, priesthood, and sacrifice. They still have to be moral, but they do not have to live under 600 plus laws.

The NT system of Christ did not immediately correct the problem of our Sin Nature, nor did it immediately give us immortal bodies. But it did do the work of guaranteeing these things, which the Law could not do. Christ himself *paid* for them! We did not.

Christ's work was his alone, and was a unique kind of work, paying for our Salvation. This kind of work, or this "class" of work belonged to Christ alone. Our "work" was in a completely different category, simply meeting the conditions necessary to benefit from Christ's work.

If we truly claim to be under the Gospel system, we must meet the prerequisites of being there, which is to receive Christ and to live for him. This is *not* earning Salvation such as "paying" for it. Rather, it is a matter of meeting necessary conditions, which is a different kind of "work."

I will just add this one more thing, with respect to "imputation." What is imputed to us is *Christ's flawless record,* so that we qualify to enter into heaven *through him.* But this does not mean that there are no qualifications for obtaining this imputation.

In the same way we must receive Christ for our Salvation we must meet the conditions for his imputation of his flawless record to our own flawed record. We must receive him, which means that his righteousness is also *transferred* to us.

That way, not only his flawless record is imputed to us but his righteousness is actually benefiting us. Unless imputation brings righteousness to us, of what value really is it? If we say "Yes" to Christ we're agreeing to let him transfer his righteousness to us along with his spotless record so that we may qualify for heaven. We are not *paying* for it, but we are in fact choosing to *receive* it!
 
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Xeno.of.athens

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Why you trying to add your deeds to it?
Saint Paul said "For not the hearers of the law are just before God: but the doers of the law shall be justified. (Romans 2:13 DRB)" And saint James said "Do you see that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only? (James 2:24 DRB)". If you have a quarrel, then it is with saints Paul and James.
 
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Xeno.of.athens

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Romans 3:28

say it is by faith ...

and we know if we have faith ... we will have works.

Faith first

“Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law” (Romans 3:28)

Works are the evidence of our faith.
One ought not worry about the order of events, one ought to do the word rather than just hear it, and one will be motivated by love for and trust in God who spoke the word that you seek to obey. Too many pages have been written in an attempt to divorce goodness and good works from belief and faith in Jesus Christ.
 
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Xeno.of.athens

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Rom 3:31 "What then? Do we nullify the Law by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the Law"
1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"
Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God and their faith in Jesus"
Eph 6:2 "Honor your father and mother" in that still-valid unit of TEN "is the first commandment WITH a promise" .... still

the NEW Covenant "Writes My Law on their heart and mind" -- Rom 8
The opening words of the original post are quotes from Romans and James. Yet some argue against them as if they were heresy.
 
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Xeno.of.athens

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When we do good works, then the significance of that action is not that they are doing something that results in becoming justified as if we could earn our justification as a wage, but rather the significance is that we are expressing our faith that we ought to be doers of good works, and it is by that faith that we are justified. When we do good works, we are testifying about God's goodness, which is why our good works bring glory to God (Matthew 5:16), and by testifying about God's goodness we are also expressing the belief that God is good. So there there is a direct connection the character traits that we believe that we ought to practice and what we believe to be true about the character of who God is, practicing those character traits of God is the way to believe in Him, and it is through that faith that we are justified.
Being a doer of the law is not earning salvation, just as believing does not earn salvation; but the person who hears and does what God commands and who believes in Jesus Christ will be saved.
 
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Soyeong

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Being a doer of the law is not earning salvation, just as believing does not earn salvation;
Agreed.

but the person who hears and does what God commands and who believes in Jesus Christ will be saved.
It is not so much that we need to believe in Jesus Christ and obey God's commands in order to be saved, but that obeying God's commands is the way to believe in Jesus. The Son is the exact image of God's nature (Hebrew 1:3), so he is holiness, righteousness, goodness, justice, mercifulness, faithfulness, and so forth in bodily form expresses through setting a sinless example of how to walk in living in obedience to God's commands, which means that by partaking in the divine nature through following his example, we are expressing the believe that he is those things, or in other words, we are believing in him.
 
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eleos1954

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One ought not worry about the order of events, one ought to do the word rather than just hear it, and one will be motivated by love for and trust in God who spoke the word that you seek to obey. Too many pages have been written in an attempt to divorce goodness and good works from belief and faith in Jesus Christ.
Order of events is important .... without faith our works are filthy rags.

Ephesians 2:8-9​

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Just because a person does "good works" does not mean they have faith in God. There are many people (such as atheists) who do "good works" but do not believe in God. One can not work their way to heaven ... they must have the gift of faith and then they will have works through that faith.
 
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Xeno.of.athens

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Agreed.


It is not so much that we need to believe in Jesus Christ and obey God's commands in order to be saved, but that obeying God's commands is the way to believe in Jesus. The Son is the exact image of God's nature (Hebrew 1:3), so he is holiness, righteousness, goodness, justice, mercifulness, faithfulness, and so forth in bodily form expresses through setting a sinless example of how to walk in living in obedience to God's commands, which means that by partaking in the divine nature through following his example, we are expressing the believe that he is those things, or in other words, we are believing in him.
One must learn not to dance around the issue and think that the dance answers it. The truth is that being a doer of the word is part of being saved just as much as being a believer of the word is. After all, one cannot believe without doing. If one merely believes and does not do then one does not believe in the way that God commands. Demons believe what God says but they do not do it and their faith is unable to save them. They believe and tremble because condemnation awaits them.
 
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Clare73

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there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised man if he learns to believe, and the Gentile because he believes. Does that mean that we are using faith to rob the law of its force? No, we are setting the law on its right footing. ... You see, then, that it takes deeds as well as faith if a man is to be justified.

The law is not gone, it is in its right place. We are indeed justified by faith and we are justified by works, as the scriptures say (Romans 3:28, James 2:24)
Scripture says that we are declared righteous (justified) by faith (Ro 3:28), and
Scripture says that our faith is shown to be genuine by works (Jas 1:14), it being genuine, we are therefore justified.
 
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Xeno.of.athens

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Scripture says that we are declared righteous (justified) by faith (Ro 3:28), and
Scripture says that our faith is shown to be genuine by works (Jas 1:14), it being genuine, we are therefore justified.
Scripture says that it is the doers of the law who are justified before God.
Scripture says that we are justified by works and not by faith alone.
 
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Clare73

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Scripture says that it is the doers of the law who are justified before God.
Scripture says that we are justified by works and not by faith alone.
Scripture says that it is the doers of the law who are justified before God.
Context of Ro 2?
Scripture says that we are justified by works and not by faith alone.
Faith is not alone, but its works do not justify, only the faith, apart from its works, justifies (Ro 3:28).
 
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