God is Trinity...but why?

[Glorthac]

John 16:7 "Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you.

Jesus is the Holy Spirit.

Galatians 4:6 And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, "Abba, Father!"

Note that John 14:26 says the Father will send the Holy Spirit in Jesus' name, John 15:26 says Jesus will send the Holy Spirit from the Father, and John 16:7 says Jesus will send the Holy Spirit.

How do you explain these Scriptures?

This is my answer for John 17:3. John 17:3, "The only true God." | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry

Jesus was speaking as a man to His God.

John 16:7 and Galatians 4:6 prove my point! Is Jesus saying: "Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, I will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send myself to you."?

Is Jesus saying: "And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Himself of Himself into your hearts, crying out, "Abba, Father!""?

As for John 14:26, John 15:26, John 16:7, these also prove my point! How can God send Himself from Himself? Jesus sends the Holy Spirit from the Father, three seperate persons.

As for John 17:3, lets cover your Nestorianism after John 14:26 (which is the heresy you and your website are teaching [and I realize its CARM]).

 

[Jpark]

John 16:7 and Galatians 4:6 prove my point! Is Jesus saying: "Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, I will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send myself to you."?

Is Jesus saying: "And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Himself of Himself into your hearts, crying out, "Abba, Father!""?

As for John 14:26, John 15:26, John 16:7, these also prove my point! How can God send Himself from Himself? Jesus sends the Holy Spirit from the Father, three seperate persons.

As for John 17:3, lets cover your Nestorianism after John 14:26 (which is the heresy you and your website are teaching [and I realize its CARM]).

He is a Spirit. This is not impossible for God.

This Nestorianism is not the heresy I preach. Jesus is not two persons.

Jesus is one Person. He was a Person until His resurrection and His soul was dissolved and He is now the Spirit. God and the Holy Spirit was with Jesus from His conception to His taking up to heaven.

Concerning this CARM,

Islam, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormonism, Christian Science, Freemasonry is satanic. Abortion is not acceptable in the sight of God. Atheism is of the seed of Cain. Evolution is satanic.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Jesus said in the Gospel of John that the Father indwelt Him did you want to see that passage?

 

[Jpark]

Jesus said in the Gospel of John that the Father indwelt Him did you want to see that passage?

Yes. How about I leave this thread? I would like to come to a compromise since neither you or Glorthac will listen my heresy and I will not listen the established Trinity. We have already established our convictions concerning this matter.

 

[Glorthac]

He is a Spirit. This is not impossible for God.

This Nestorianism is not the heresy I preach. Jesus is not two persons.

Jesus is one Person. He was a Person until His resurrection and His soul was dissolved and He is now the Spirit. God and the Holy Spirit was with Jesus from His conception to His taking up to heaven.

Concerning this CARM,

Islam, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormonism, Christian Science, Freemasonry is satanic. Abortion is not acceptable in the sight of God. Atheism is of the seed of Cain. Evolution is satanic.

Let's forget Nestorianism, CARM, etc. for now. Are you seriously telling me Jesus said: "Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, I will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send myself to you."?

And "And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Himself of Himself into your hearts, crying out, "Abba, Father!""?

 

[Jpark]

Let's forget Nestorianism, CARM, etc. for now. Are you seriously telling me Jesus said: "Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, I will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send myself to you."?

And "And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Himself of Himself into your hearts, crying out, "Abba, Father!""?

John 14:18 "I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

It would appear that is what He said.

However, concerning Galatians, even I am perplexed. The only answer I can say concerning this is that this is possible for God. I will see if I can find an answer and I if I cannot, then I will persist from posting in this thread. I would like to withdraw.

 

[dana b]

Mankind can be aware in three perspectives. The Physical perspective where he is aware of material objects and the physical world.

Mankind can be aware in an emotional feelings world and become oblivious to everything else.

Mankind is often in the mental world where he is thinking and reasoning out in his thougts.

This is the entierty of Mankind's perspectives of awarness in this world. It also matched the Holy Trinity of Christiandom. Only Human beings have the ability to be aware distinctly in these three modes of consciousness. Animals don't reason and think so much in the future and they don't constantly worry as humans often do.................................dan b

 

[Jpark]

Mankind can be aware in three perspectives. The Physical perspective where he is aware of material objects and the physical world.

Mankind can be aware in an emotional feelings world and become oblivious to everything else.

Mankind is often in the mental world where he is thinking and reasoning out in his thougts.

This is the entierty of Mankind's perspectives of awarness in this world. It also matched the Holy Trinity of Christiandom. Only Human beings have the ability to be aware distinctly in these three modes of consciousness. Animals don't reason and think so much in the future and they don't constantly worry as humans often do.................................dan b

But how can God have a soul? I do not understand this. I can understand Jesus having a soul, but how can His Holy Spirit?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Yes. How about I leave this thread? I would like to come to a compromise since neither you or Glorthac will listen my heresy and I will not listen the established Trinity. We have already established our convictions concerning this matter.

to me this is just a discussion . there's no need to leave because we disagree . we can just fall silent until others join and then discuss with them .

John 14

9Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? 10Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves.

 

[Jpark]

to me this is just a discussion . there's no need to leave because we disagree . we can just fall silent until others join and then discuss with them .

John 14

9Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? 10Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves.

Ok.

But how can the Father be living in Jesus and be in heaven? Unless the Father is the Holy Spirit, who indwelled Jesus in fullness. For the Father fills the heavens and the earth (Jeremiah 23:24; 2 Chronicles 6:18) and His omnipresence is associated with the Holy Spirit (Psalm 51:11; Psalm 139:7-8).

 

[hybrid]

folks,

god is all and is in all.
this is the universal principle whereas all concepts and dogmas about the nature of god fits all.

god is everything and everything in is god.
god is the contents and the container,
there is nothing but god. he is one.

 

[dana b]

The Trinity gained it's notaryity when the Emperor Constantine gathered the council of priests to address a problem. The problem was that many people were seeing in Jesus's teachings that he was actually saying that each person is a "son of man." When the son of man comes on the clouds of heaven in Rev.14;14, they saw it also meaning in each one of us. Heaven is in the mind of each of Mankind made in the 'image of god."Gen.1;27 Thoughs in the mind are angels in heaven. Jesus Christ brought us a message and a deal that if we try our hardest to follow our highest good conscience, and if we believe in him, we would inherit everlansting life.
The point of the Council of Nicea was that much of the Christian world, especially in the greek speaking and reading eastern empire, was starting to belief man could gain accsess to God directly, without the priests and church. Thats why they had the council and so that the people wouln't understand the real problem that they were there to address, they said it was to determine if God were one, or if he was exactly the same as Jesus ect. This is Rome sowing confusion. The Trinity is not mentioned in the Bible. But the Bible is full of Trinities. That why the chief priest and Constantine used this as the supposied subject.

The Bible divides into 3 equal parts of 22 books in each. Today's 66 book protestant Bible fits exactly under the old Testament headings of The Law, The Prophets, and The Writtings. IN the first colomn of 22 books are the 5 books called the Pentatuch, then 12 books, then 5 books called the wisdom literature. In the second colomn are the 5 Major prophets, the 12 minor prophets, and the 5 books of the new testament prophets. This middle colomn is under the heading "the Prophets". And it's all names of prophets. The third collomn is all writting called epistles. And it's heading is called The Writting. Anyway Mankind was created in Gen.1 verse 27. Thats the first 27 in the Bible. 3 times 3 times 3 its a trinity verse. And there are 3 statements in this verse.

Gen.1;27 - So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him, male and female created he them.

There are so many more reasons that gave rise to the Trinity aspect in Christiany, 3 2000year periods of history, Revelations divided int 3 parts at chapter 7,14 and 21. In these exact chapters are mentions 3 times the number 144.000. ect. dan b

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Ok.

But how can the Father be living in Jesus and be in heaven? Unless the Father is the Holy Spirit, who indwelled Jesus in fullness. For the Father fills the heavens and the earth (Jeremiah 23:24; 2 Chronicles 6:18) and His omnipresence is associated with the Holy Spirit (Psalm 51:11; Psalm 139:7-8).

Father and Jesus were demonstrating the type of relationship we would have with God with the Holy Spirit indwelling us .

Jesus has the Father indwelling and the Bride has the feminine Spirit indwelling and there is a marriage fulfilling what God meant adam and eve to be initially in relation to Him .

but How? that's a mystery to me . but i live it every day .

 

[Glorthac]

But how can God have a soul? I do not understand this. I can understand Jesus having a soul, but how can His Holy Spirit?

What do you think a soul is? To us Trinitarians, a soul is simply a person. We see in Genesis 2:7 that Adam only became a living soul when God breathed. Therefore, there was a time when Adam's flesh was without a soul.

So having a soul is not necessarily connected to being a human being. A soul is simply that which makes something personal.

So the divine nature, that which we call God, can and does have a soul, as we see from passages that denote God is personal.

So we're not debating "how can God have a soul", we are debating whether or not God has 1 soul/person (your position) or 3 souls/persons (our position).

Likewise, the Holy Spirit has a soul, because He is personal.

Is this really standing in your way of becoming a true Trinitarian?

But how can the Father be living in Jesus and be in heaven? Unless the Father is the Holy Spirit, who indwelled Jesus in fullness. For the Father fills the heavens and the earth (Jeremiah 23:24; 2 Chronicles 6:18) and His omnipresence is associated with the Holy Spirit (Psalm 51:11; Psalm 139:7-8).

The Father is living in Jesus and is in heaven because the Father is omnipresent. Likewise the Son is omnipresent, and the Holy Spirit is omnipresent.

They are omnipresent because they are consubstantial to the one divine nature, which is omnipresent.

Yet they're not one person consubstantial to the one divine nature which is omnipresent, they are three persons consubstantial to the one divine nature which is omnipresent.

Does this help?

 

[Jpark]

What do you think a soul is? To us Trinitarians, a soul is simply a person. We see in Genesis 2:7 that Adam only became a living soul when God breathed. Therefore, there was a time when Adam's flesh was without a soul.

So having a soul is not necessarily connected to being a human being. A soul is simply that which makes something personal.

So the divine nature, that which we call God, can and does have a soul, as we see from passages that denote God is personal.

So we're not debating "how can God have a soul", we are debating whether or not God has 1 soul/person (your position) or 3 souls/persons (our position).

Likewise, the Holy Spirit has a soul, because He is personal.

Is this really standing in your way of becoming a true Trinitarian?



The Father is living in Jesus and is in heaven because the Father is omnipresent. Likewise the Son is omnipresent, and the Holy Spirit is omnipresent.

They are omnipresent because they are consubstantial to the one divine nature, which is omnipresent.

Yet they're not one person consubstantial to the one divine nature which is omnipresent, they are three persons consubstantial to the one divine nature which is omnipresent.

Does this help?

It has been all made clear to me.

I just had a talk with my father and I misunderstood what he said. He meant God has no human soul and that the word soul is not the correct word to describe God's Spirit.

God is Spirit and God has a mind, will, and emotions just like human beings. But this is not a human soul. The word soul is not an adequate word to describe God's Spirit. God has no human soul. He exists in the human body, soul, and spirit.

I will return to Trinitarianism.

However, I still am not convinced the Holy Spirit and the Father is distinct in "personality". I believe the Spirit and the Father is one and the same Spirit. How can the Spirit and the Father be different "Persons"?

Hebrews 3:7 Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says:

Hebrews 10:15 But the Holy Spirit also witnesses to us; for after He said before,

 

[Gregory Thompson]

How can the Spirit and the Father be different "Persons"?

Because God lives outside of time . and the space time continuum we are currently participating in is because of Him . aspects of Him are scattered throughout the whole mix . it may be helpful to think of it as God the past God the Present and God the Future . but the beginning is the same as the end God is one .

 

[jpr7]

God is not a Person. The word Person implies an end, a limit. Humans are visible. God is invisible.

Exodus 3:14 And God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM." And He said, "Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'"

1 Timothy 1:17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, to God who alone is wise, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.

Psalm 90:2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever You had formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, You are God.

Revelation 22:13 "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last."

jpark43,

You say that you believe God is not a person but then you apply the term to God in some way:

The Holy Spirit, the Father, and the Son is distinct in activities, but is the same "person". (http://www.christianforums.com/t7425707-3/#post53835895)

Yes, that is correct. Of the same nature. However, I do not believe that the Father and the Holy Spirit are distinct in "person". I believe the Father and the Holy Spirit are one in "person". (http://www.christianforums.com/t7425707-4/#post53836141)

What exactly do you mean what you say you you believe "God is not a Person" and when you say you believe "the Father and the Holy Spirit are one in 'person'"?

 

[buzzini]

God is One. But the perception of Him can vary. Like the sun shines on all things, without sun, nothing can exist but in darkness. it would be foolish to call all colors and visible things God. they are but reflection of that sun. Same as God, who all things come from.

Trinity could lead someone to think God is 3. even if you believe the 3 are personalities or roles, such thinking narrow each one and deny that personality or role from other 2. Hence it is better to understand God as One, and that Jesus is God the father, and that Holy Spirit is also Father, No difference in them all.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

well colours is an excellent example

science has measured that the colours we see are really a reflection of what is not there

so now imagine what if what was really there is everything but that

so Jpark's conclusion that God is one in that all three are in one node in the one circle

and some see that there are three nodes within the one circle

on this or that side of eternity . it doesn't make a big difference .

but just an idea that came to me . if it helps .

 

[2ducklow]

Cmon 2ducklow, you're so close, I know you understand it! Just admit the Trinity is possible!

Not even close. god the Father is a spirit not a substance. for me, I'd have to throw the bible away to believe that.

consubstantial means of the same substance, nature or essence. What is this substance that the persons of god have/share? To say that God the Father is a substance is just so antiblical as to be not even the remotest possiblity with me.