Zeena, I know you like to post verses, and obviously you should, but please try to say what you mean by posting them in your own words too.
What I was pointing out from Scripture is that men have the choice to either submit to God, resisting the devil, or to submit to the devil. And men chose to submit to the devil because it IS pleasurable, as Scripture indicates. Will the pleasure subside and will judgement come? YES! But it's still
pleasureable for a season, as Scripture
also indicates.
Zeena said:
2 Peter 2:15
They have left the straight way and wandered off to follow the way of Balaam son of Beor, who loved the wages of wickedness.
Yes, but we must consider who Peter means by "they" and also to whom the letter is addressed.
Peter is speaking of professed Christians, who have
turned away from following Christ.
2 Peter 2:4-22 [more in context]
4For if
God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
5And spared not the old world, but
saved Noah the eighth person,
a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
6And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow,
making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
7And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
8(For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his
righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds; )
9The Lord knoweth how to deliver the
godly out of temptations, and to reserve the
unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
10But chiefly
them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.
11Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.
12But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their
own corruption;
13And shall receive
the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;
14Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls:
an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
15Which
have forsaken the right way,
and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;
16But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.
17These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
18For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
19While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
20For if after
they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ,
they are again entangled therein,
and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21For it had been better for them not to
have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to
turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
It is quite plain what the Lord is saying, in that they KNEW the Way, but they
refused the Way, and went their own way, the way of death. They HAD escaped the corruption of the world by the knowledge of their Lord and Saviour, but they turned away! The Scripture is plain, this is speaking of professed Christians who have turned away from following the Lord.
Romans 11:20-21
Well;
because of unbelief they were broken off, and
thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Hebrews 12:25-29
See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven: Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven. And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear: For our God is a consuming fire.
Concerning my assertions, to which I think you are replying, I think one must take into account this passage:
Romans 11:32
32 For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.
I just quoted further from Romans 11.
It is clear Paul is speaking of the hardening [in part] of the Jews.
Romans 11:25
For I would not, brethren, have you ignorant of this mystery, lest ye be wise in your own conceits, that
a hardening in part hath befallen Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in;
So then, Paul is
not speaking of all mankind, but the children of the flesh, rather than the promise, no?
Zeena said:
Hebrews 11:25
Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;
Once again, who is Paul talking about when he mentions "the people of God," and to whom is he writing the letter?
He is speaking of the children of the faith of Abraham.
John 8:37-40
I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
38I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
39They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
40But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
Romans 9:8
That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
This only seems to apply in a roundabout way. What do you mean with this one?
Roundabout is good for a full picture, is it not?
I find this verse applicable in that men CHOSE to follow their own devices, for it is not only easier [there is no yoke of bondage to God, but to sin, which is FAR easier
and satisfactory [albiet for
only a season] than submitting to the Holy One].
Matthew 11:29
Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
They will eat and drink, be merry and glad in their hearts, for the time being. But sin brings forth death, and they will die.
John 8:24
I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
1 Corinthians 16:13
Watch ye, stand fast in the faith, quit you like men, be strong.