Gay rights activists to hold kiss protests at Chick-fil-A restaurants

[BondiHarry]

You've illustrated the problem with trying to argue for Christian values whilst being wedded (if you'll pardon the pun) to the principles and categorising of the Enlightenment.

We need to stop using rationalist language and principles to communicate what God commands....as what God commands is not for us to judge

Actually, God commands that we DO judge (just not of a person's ultimate salvation as that is for Jesus alone).

JOHN 7:24: "Judge not according to appearance, but judge righteous judgment."
LUKE 12:57: "Yea, and why not even of yourselves judge ye not what is right?"
PSALM 37:30: "The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue talketh of judgment."
PROVERBS 31:9: "Open thy mouth, judge righteously, and plead the cause of the poor and needy."
LUKE 17:3: "Take heed... If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him."
I CORINTHIANS 2:15; 6:2-3: "He that is spiritual judgeth all things... Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Know ye not that we shall judge angels? How much more things that pertain to this life?"

 

[Leap]

Actually, God commands that we DO judge (just not of a person's ultimate salvation as that is for Jesus alone).

JOHN 7:24: "Judge not according to appearance, but judge righteous judgment."
LUKE 12:57: "Yea, and why not even of yourselves judge ye not what is right?"
PSALM 37:30: "The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue talketh of judgment."
PROVERBS 31:9: "Open thy mouth, judge righteously, and plead the cause of the poor and needy."
LUKE 17:3: "Take heed... If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him."
I CORINTHIANS 2:15; 6:2-3: "He that is spiritual judgeth all things... Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Know ye not that we shall judge angels? How much more things that pertain to this life?"

I said that it is not for us to judge God.

 

[BondiHarry]

I said that it is not for us to judge God.

That may have been what you MEANT to say but it isn't what you actually said ... "We need to stop using rationalist language and principles to communicate what God commands....as what God commands is not for us to judge....but in order to do that we must divorce ourselves from the changes brought by the Enlightenment, and that is very difficult when so much of our society's values comes from precisely that"

 

[someguy14]

The Holy Spirit is the judge. The Holy Spirit is God.
The ones that rejoice in wickedness have been defeated!

 

[Leap]

That may have been what you MEANT to say but it isn't what you actually said ... "We need to stop using rationalist language and principles to communicate what God commands....as what God commands is not for us to judge....but in order to do that we must divorce ourselves from the changes brought by the Enlightenment, and that is very difficult when so much of our society's values comes from precisely that"

It's what I DID say: "what God commands is not for us to judge". You are treating it as if I said "what God commands is for us to not judge".

 

[BondiHarry]

It's what I DID say: "what God commands is not for us to judge". You are treating it as if I said "what God commands is for us to not judge".

Well Leap, as the saying goes about Americans and Englishmen, we are two people divided by a common language. If you might say "what God commands is for us to judge" that clearly means we are to judge so when you throw a 'not' in there "what God commands is NOT for us to judge" it means the opposite or that we are NOT to judge.

 

[Leap]

Well Leap, as the saying goes about Americans and Englishmen, we are two people divided by a common language. If you might say "what God commands is for us to judge" that clearly means we are to judge so when you throw a 'not' in there "what God commands is NOT for us to judge" it means the opposite or that we are NOT to judge.

That's because you need to learn my language, English.

If I say that "what God commands is NOT for us to judge", it means precisely that - that what God commands is not for me to judge.

If I were to say that "what God commands is for us NOT to judge", it means that God is commanding us to refrain from Judging.

In the words of John Hannah's character in The Mummy...."Ahhhmericans *rollseyes*"

 

[Jade Margery]

Could you please provide the Biblical reference that says Jesus' father was Joseph? Thanks.

That was the point of the post you only quoted part of. Reading the first part of Roman's 1, it says Jesus was made of the seed of David. And they went through a long list of kings to show that Joseph was a direct male descendant of David (the only kind that would have counted, if you wanted Jesus to have a claim to kingship). So if it wasn't Joseph's kingly David-seed, whose was it?

 

[Publius]

And at one time the "traditional Christian definition of marriage" was defined as an institution available to heterosexual whites only.

Source?

How is it some Christians are afraid of Gays, who are none of their business and have no attraction to straights?

What Christians are afraid of gays? If their sexuality is none of our business, then why do they feel compelled to tell us about it and to insert it into our culture?

 

[mpok1519]

Personally, I would support an ordinance banning public same-sex kissing as public lewd conduct. When it's out there for everybody to see, it becomes everybody's business--not just yours. It's in the same category as indecent exposure.

Why? Are you afraid your kids might see two men kissing?

"It doesn't have ANY effect on your life. What do you care? People try to talk about it like it's a social issue. Like when you see someone stand up on a talk show and say 'How am I supposed to explain to my child that two men are getting married?' I dunno, it's your kid, you tell 'em. Why is that anyone else's problem? Two guys are in LOVE but they can't kiss in public because YOU don't want to talk to YOUR child for five minutes?" – comedian Louis CK on gay marriage.

 

[mpok1519]

Source?



What Christians are afraid of gays? If their sexuality is none of our business, then why do they feel compelled to tell us about it and to insert it into our culture?

Have you forgotten in our country interracial marriage was illegal based in biblical reasoning at one point?

Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it.

 

[BondiHarry]

That's because you need to learn my language, English.

If I say that "what God commands is NOT for us to judge", it means precisely that - that what God commands is not for me to judge.

If I were to say that "what God commands is for us NOT to judge", it means that God is commanding us to refrain from Judging.

In the words of John Hannah's character in The Mummy...."Ahhhmericans *rollseyes*"

This is turning into an Abbott and Costello routine like 'Who is on first'. 'It is not for us to judge what God commands' is much clearer in meaning than 'what God commands is NOT for us to judge' ... clarity in language is a good thing Leap.

 

[BondiHarry]

Have you forgotten in our country interracial marriage was illegal based in biblical reasoning at one point?

Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it.

What scripture are you referring to that was used in making interracial marriage illegal?

 

[Defensor Fidei]

"Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, malay and red, and he placed them on separate continents. And but for the interference with his arrangement there would be no cause for such marriages. The fact that he separated the races shows that he did not intend for the races to mix."
-Judge Leon Bazile, upholding Virginia's ban on interracial marriage, 1959

Of course that ruling was later overturned by the U.S. Supreme Court in Loving v. Virginia.

Some day we will view opponents of same-sex marriage equality the same way we view Judge Bazile and other opponents of interracial marriage. No matter how strongly they have convinced themselves that God supports their bigotry, they are still wrong.

 

[mpok1519]

What scripture are you referring to that was used in making interracial marriage illegal?

You're free to do as much research with your time as you please. Remember though, is your time, meaning, it's your life. If it is knowledge you seek, you must find it.

From what I have researched, there are several parts in the bible where it teaches to keep separated from people who don't share your culture, and in almost all cases, race is a huge part of culture. Several passages have been used to justify banning of interracial mixing, but at the same time it's up to interpretation.

 

[BondiHarry]

But I'm not seeing any attempts to silence anyone. The closest you can come to that is Boston and Chicago's mayors stating that Chick-Fil-A doesn't fit their communities standards and saying they aren't welcome. But even if they did stop Chick-Fil-A from building in their cities, that still doesn't effect Cathy's ability to speak publicly on whatever he wants. [Note: Just to be clear, I am completely opposed to any mayor taking any steps to make it harder/block Chick-Fil-A from building franchises in their cities]

No one is saying Mr. Cathy is guilty of a crime, even the mayors of Boston and Chicago -- again, just that his comments and Chick-Fil-A's actions do not reflect the community standards (in cities where sexual orientation is protected); so I don't understand the point of your bringing it up.

By contrast, I see many of the same people who applauded a Kentucky town that was blocking a mosque from being built, and the same people that were trying to stop a Muslim community center from being built in NYC (because it didn't fit the neighborhood of ground zero) criticizing the comments of the Boston and Chicago mayors for essentially saying they will do the same things the Kentucky town did.

Tis a mighty bold and interesting thing for any mayor to in essence say ... "God's word doesn't fit with our community standards" (His word didn't fit the community standards in Sodom or Gomorrah either)

 

[BondiHarry]

You're free to do as much research with your time as you please. Remember though, is your time, meaning, it's your life. If it is knowledge you seek, you must find it.

From what I have researched, there are several parts in the bible where it teaches to keep separated from people who don't share your culture, and in almost all cases, race is a huge part of culture. Several passages have been used to justify banning of interracial mixing, but at the same time it's up to interpretation.

As a Christian the only restriction on who I marry is that she be a fellow believer. I have not come across ANY scripture which would forbid fellow believers to marry based on race and yes, I DO study the Bible diligently.

 

[mpok1519]

Well, do a little more research, and you'll find that people were using scripture to justify segregation throughout history.

They were probably wrong, but it doesn't change the fact that they BELIEVED they were doing the right thing, and BELIEVED they were doing God's will.

 

[good brother]

I said that it is not for us to judge God.

That may have been what you MEANT to say but it isn't what you actually said ... "We need to stop using rationalist language and principles to communicate what God commands....as what God commands is not for us to judge....but in order to do that we must divorce ourselves from the changes brought by the Enlightenment, and that is very difficult when so much of our society's values comes from precisely that"

It's what I DID say: "what God commands is not for us to judge". You are treating it as if I said "what God commands is for us to not judge".

Well Leap, as the saying goes about Americans and Englishmen, we are two people divided by a common language. If you might say "what God commands is for us to judge" that clearly means we are to judge so when you throw a 'not' in there "what God commands is NOT for us to judge" it means the opposite or that we are NOT to judge.

That's because you need to learn my language, English.

If I say that "what God commands is NOT for us to judge", it means precisely that - that what God commands is not for me to judge.

If I were to say that "what God commands is for us NOT to judge", it means that God is commanding us to refrain from Judging.

In the words of John Hannah's character in The Mummy...."Ahhhmericans *rollseyes*"

Bondi, what I believe Leap is trying to say is this: "We are not judge any of whatever God commands."


I think.


God bless you both.


In Christ, GB

 

[Smidlee]

And my entire company has boycotted Chick Fil A, even the guys who used to eat there.

What your point?

The point is some have learned that Chick-fill-a has good chicken sandwich out of this. The main reason I eat at Chick-fill-a is the food. I'm someone who even guilty of watching a movie every now and then no matter what the personal views of the actors and producers are.
(For example I like the Star Wars series even though I disagree with it's religious teachings.)

If you really serious about boycotting everyone who has a different view then the best way of doing this is to live like a hermit in the woods like the Unibomber did.