Gay Marriage Referendum in Ireland today...

[frenchdefense]

So it's oppression to dislike unbiblical things. OK.

No, it's unBiblical (or more the point on this board) unCatholic) to oppress people for who they are.

 

[frenchdefense]

It sure does, and the fact also remains that it's<staff edit> according to God.

No, it's disordered. That has a specific meaning in Catholic theology and it do not mean <staff edit>

Get the Catholic theology correct or stop arguing Catholic theology on a Catholic board.

 

[S.ilvio]

It sure does, and the fact also remains that it's perverted according to God.

I won't go around to my gay fellow citizens and shout <staff edit>in their face.

It's just not in me and I hope it never will be.

 

[Sword of the Lord]

No, it's disordered. That has a specific meaning in Catholic theology and it do not mean <staff edit>

Get the Catholic theology correct or stop arguing Catholic theology on a Catholic board.

Hmmm. Your argument is semantics and I'm still right, and so is the church.
<staff edit>

1. (of a person or their actions) characterized by sexually abnormal and unacceptable practices or tendencies.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

"Undoubtedly, that cannot by any means be accounted the perfection of civilized life which sets all legitimate authority boldly at defiance; nor can that be regarded as liberty which, shamefully and by the vilest means, spreading false principles, and freely indulging the sensual gratification of lustful desires, claims impunity for all crime and misdemeanor, and thwarts the goodly influence of the worthiest citizens of whatsoever class. Delusive, perverse, and misleading as are these principles, they cannot possibly have any inherent power to perfect the human race and fill it with blessing, for 'sin maketh nations miserable.' Such principles, as a matter of course, must hurry nations, corrupted in mind and heart, into every kind of infamy, weaken all right order, and thus, sooner or later, bring the standing and peace of the State to the very brink of ruin." - Pope Leo XIII, Inscrutabili Dei Consilio (April, 1878)

 

[pdudgeon]

Right.

Things is the Irish nation has had its say and we must all move on and still live side by side with our fellow citizens...

you know what? You're right that the Irish nation has made it's choice, and I'm glad that you also made yours.
I hope you keep on making that same choice and never loose sight of it.

But i also hope that your nation doesn't suffer for the choice that it made today.

 

[frenchdefense]

I'm sure they will.

 

[setmefree]

Not knowledgable enough to even try to understand the fine points of Catholic theology. However regarding this decision in Ireland. This vote was as much a vote on the deafness Irelands church hierarchy in a number of matters as it was on this single issue. If the powers that be hadn't abused those powers on numerous issues this vote would have been a lot closer. On this issue itself if the church and the conservative members and clergy had indeed followed what it actually teaches on homosexuality the result may have been closer. The reality is a lot of people claim to love the sinner and hate the sin but they really despise and shun the sinner with this particular sin. (not saying where I stand on the matter of if its a sin or not). This was a referendum on bad behavior by an institution and some of its members. The people actually had a say in punishing that group. So when they punched YES they were actually enacting retribution for many past sins that were enacted by the people who up till now had not been held accountable. Pope Francis knows exactly what this hypocrisy is all about. He obviously knows Catholic theology and doctrine but he is shining a very bright light on the hypocrites who say one thing and act a totally different way.

 

[Rhamiel]

I am sorry if some of my language helped to cause escalation of tempers in this thread

Pope Francis, back when he was a Cardinal in Buenos Aires, he wrote a letter to the Carmilite nuns in his diocese, you can read it here

http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2010/07/may-holy-family-join-us-in-this-war-of.html

or the words of the Holy Father when He visited the Phillipines
“The family is threatened by growing efforts on the part of some to redefine the very institution of marriage, by relativism, by the culture of the ephemeral, by a lack of openness to life.” the Address To Families Manilla, Philippines, January 16th, 2015

 

[LivingWordUnity]

As Christians we should tell the truth with charity. But we also need to realize that disagreement, no matter how carefully worded, is going to offend those who want to redefine marriage.

 

[mark46]

Gay marriage has been legal over here since 2001, coming up on a decade and a half now, and nobody has even attempted to force churces to perform same-sex marriages.

In some countries, the state gives licenses to the pastors and priests who perform marriages. It does seem possible that some country might find that anyone with such a license cannot discriminate against those who secure a legal marriage.

In the US, the issues of forcing justices of the peace to accept anyone hasn't been tested. I would think that such a suit MIGHT succeed. This is much different than requested that a religious institution to perform a marriage ceremony that is inconsistent with its teachings.

In the end, from a SECULAR perspective, all couples seeking a legal marriage to all those who offer marriage service to the public. Priests do NOT offer marriage service to the public.

 

[mark46]

I am sorry if some of my language helped to cause escalation of tempers in this thread

Pope Francis, back when he was a Cardinal in Buenos Aires, he wrote a letter to the Carmilite nuns in his diocese, you can read it here

http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2010/07/may-holy-family-join-us-in-this-war-of.html

or the words of the Holy Father when He visited the Phillipines
“The family is threatened by growing efforts on the part of some to redefine the very institution of marriage, by relativism, by the culture of the ephemeral, by a lack of openness to life.” the Address To Families Manilla, Philippines, January 16th, 2015

Pope Francis has strongly and clearly opposed any legalization of SSM. On the other hand, he once noted that, if the state is to act, civil unions were preferable to SSM. This was after the fact. Some have suggested that had the Church stated this view many years ago, civil unions might have become more prevalent.

 

[KenBrace]

I believe in the separation of church and state. The Christian idea of marriage should not influence political matters. If gay marriage is harmful to the state then it should not be allowed. Otherwise, why do Christians have the right to enforce their marriage believes on others?

 

[Rhamiel]

well the idea is that marriage is natural
pagan Rome and Greece also saw that marriage was for one man and one woman

 

[frenchdefense]

As Christians we should tell the truth with charity. But we also need to realize that disagreement, no matter how carefully worded, is going to offend those who want to redefine marriage.

True, but..

In my experience.

Sometimes the disagreement is carefully worded as to offend.

 

[ebia]

What is interesting is that after many decades of conservatives complaining about "activist judges", meaning progressives who forced schools to desegregate and so on, the current crop of "activisit judges" are mainly making rulings that are politically conservative. For example, activist conservative judges have invalided most of our campaign finance laws on some very thin pretenses that are found nowhere in constitution and our laws in any literal sense- saying things like corporations are people and money is free speech. Really? I don't see either of those things anywhere in the constitution- the constitution didn't even originally count African-American as full people, let alone corporations, and the first amendment that guarantees free speech nowhere mentions money in any way. The Citizen's United case is pure right-wing judicial activism. But someone conservative groups who complained against judicial activism for so long when it came from a progressive direction have nothing bad to say about judicial activism that favors their own interests or beliefs.

I am not referring to the poster I am replying to specifically. I am just going on a very generalized riff based on the subject presented in the quote. I don't know where the poster has stood on these issues through the years. I'm speaking of the conservative movement and conservative politicians in a general sense in this country.

I thought this was about Ireland, which as far as I know has the same kind of separation of politics and the judiciary expected of most of the free world outside the US.

 

[ebia]

True, but..

In my experience.

Sometimes the disagreement is carefully worded as to offend.

Colossians 4:6 is a much underrated verse

 

[S.ilvio]

To those of you who fear Ireland's decision is enabling Satan get a stronger hold on us, I have these three questions.

What did you do to stop it?

If you indeed did something, could you have done more?

Can you sleep at night knowing you did all in your power to try and prevent it?

 

[Sword of the Lord]

Who cares about those questions? Can you really say gay marriage just made Ireland better and was the will of God? Guess what, if it isn't God's will, it's the other guys'.

 

[S.ilvio]

Who cares about those questions? Can you really say gay marriage just made Ireland better and was the will of God? Guess what, if it isn't God's will, it's the other guys'.

Your reaction to my questions is interesting...