Gay couple with no sex.

[benedictaoo]

Seek the truth and you will find it. Name all the married couples who were Saints that you can. Crack open Lives of the Saints, or play around an Google. I got a crisp $100 that says the majority that you find will have, eventually at least, embraced Josephite marriages.

eventually I think we all end up that way...celibate married people that is. Whether you find a million of them or none. It still is a non point. Marrieds can not be compared to those who live together. That's the point here.

 

[benedictaoo]

"suddenly"
there is nothing sudden about this
the age old teachings of the Church

do not put yourself into the near occasion of sin
do not cause others to have scandal

you can love someone and not live with them
being in a sexless psudo marriage might not be the healthiest move for you or your friend

like I said, this is more of a pastoral issue
I am not claiming 100% that this is wrong
it just seems like you are shutting down and not being open minded to the reasons that you are being given

again, good words. FWIW, the same rules apply to heterosexuals too. Yeah I know, they can always get married but the majority now days don't and very much do take this privilege for granted. They just have sex anyway. So for the record, straight people who have sex outside marriage are in just as much sin as gays who do it.

 

[AHH who-stole-my-name]

I agree. The true definition of love is seeking the best for the beloved. The best being what is best for each other's mind, body and soul. It sounds y'all are trying to do that. We are warped though because even gays can lust we all can and that's not love. and if any couple is deluded into thinking they can lust after each other and remain celibate while they share a bed. Their crazy.

Matthew 5:27-28 "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery.' But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

 

[Michie]

I see this everywhere. Any time you get into a deep conversation whether it be the computer or friends in your daily life, it seems like it is a debate on loopholes, having your cake and eating it too, or following God what does it really mean? I've done this conversation in my real life and have no intention of playing chess with God's word and carrying the cross on OBOB. Staying out of the fray on this one. I do not look at this as entertainment for its own sake. Millstones scare me.

 

[benedictaoo]

So you know we are living in a crazy world where gays want marriage and we don't.

Matthew 5:27-28 "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery.' But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

Adultery being sex in thought word or deed that is outside of marriage. Lust being sinful which ties into today's reading. Its what is in our heart that defiles. If lust is in our heart that is what makes us unclean. Lust.

 

[MikeK]

eventually I think we all end up that way...celibate married people that is. Whether you find a million of them or none. It still is a non point. Marrieds can not be compared to those who live together. That's the point here.

A) Go and look, I think you'll be enlightened. Their vows of chastity and celibacy were not taken in old age but generally when they were young.

B) Why can couples who love each other and are chaste and are living together not be compared to our married Saints? Make sure that your answer takes into account exactly what marriage was at the time of the Saints' unions. Often times, the marriage was little but a public declaration, something many unmarried long term couples make today.

 

[benedictaoo]

I see this everywhere. Any time you get into a deep conversation whether it be the computer or friends in your daily life, it seems like it is a debate on loopholes, having your cake and eating it too, or following God what does it really mean? I've done this conversation in my real life and have no intention of playing chess with God's word and staying the cross on OBOB. Staying out of the fray on this one. I do not look at this as entertainment for its own sake. Millstones scare me.

Very, very good.

 

[MikeK]

I want marriage. I rather like being married.

 

[benedictaoo]

A) Go and look, I think you'll be enlightened. Their vows of chastity and celibacy were not taken in old age but generally when they were young.

B) Why can couples who love each other and are chaste and are living together not be compared to our married Saints? Make sure that your answer takes into account exactly what marriage was at the time of the Saints' unions. Often times, the marriage was little but a public declaration, something many unmarried long term couples make today.

if marrieds want to be celibate. Its their business. If they don't, that's their business. Them living together does not cause us any scandal. Hetros that do live together not marries can cause scandal. Gays that live together can cause scandal.I'm not saying in of itself they are. Only that they can depending on circumstances.

 

[MikeK]

if marrieds want to be celibate. Its their business. If they don't, that's their business. Them living together does not cause us any scandal. Hetros that do live together not marries can cause scandal. Gays that live together can cause scandal.I'm not saying in of itself they are. Only that they can depending on circumstances.

That I agree with. It is important to avoid scandal, and loudly proclaiming your love and your promise to God could help extinguish and scandal that might arise.

 

[pdudgeon]

And yes I'm gay. And I'm not "in love" with another man. I'm in love with another man.You don't have the right to deny me the right to love and be loved just because you assume that I will fall into temptation. Also, you can't expect me to leave the man I loved for the last 5 years just like that because suddenly some people's mind is stuck about what others do in their bedrooms. I understand the Church's teaching regarding sex, and my partner and I trying to live to that. But for us to break the love, that is not going to happen.

then by your own admission ^^^ your love for this man is stronger than your love for God and for His word, and for the Catholic Church.
What you are describing is not love (agape) but lust (eros).

Love puts the other person's best above their own wants and needs.
That is called self sacrifice.

We are not talking here about 'our' right to deny you the right to love and to be loved.
You have the right to choose any single female, court her, love her, and marry her.
God says that it's not good that a man should be alone. but His solution to that problem is not to supply you with the man of your choice, but with a woman for your partner.

The desire to prefer and to choose a same sex union is by it's nature knowingly and deliberately choosing to go against what God wants for your life.

Christians are supposed to be living lives of submission in all things to God and to His will.

This is the example that Christ set before us when He chose to follow God's will and died for us on the cross. We are all charged with the direction to DAILY deny ourselves and what we want in this life, and instead we are to follow the example of Christ who Himself followed God's will.
That's how we live out our Christianity before the world, one day at a time.

 

[RaylightI]

then by your own admission your love for this man is stronger than your love for God and for His word, and for the Catholic Church.

Please don't put words in my mouth. And don't act so self-righteous as if you are sinless. You don't get to decide how much I love God and His Church. Only God has the right to do so on the Day of Judgment. Until then, may God have mercy on me.

 

[RaylightI]

I won't comment on this thread anymore. I asked the question and I got the answer; There is no official teaching from the Church that forbids two gay people living together without having sex. The rest was matter of personal opinions and giving too much weight to what people say and consider to be "scandal". Well, once upon a time Jesus's actions were considered scandals, should we now abandon Christ for the sake of what the people thought of him and his actions ? NO!

Thanks to all who took time to reply to my question.

 

[topcare]

How more clear could anyone here be? It's a near occasion to sin and a scandal, the Church has much to say about that.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

I won't comment on this thread anymore. I asked the question and I got the answer; There is no official teaching from the Church that forbids two gay people living together without having sex. The rest was matter of personal opinions and giving too much weight to what people say and consider to be "scandal". Well, once upon a time Jesus's actions were considered scandals, should we now abandon Christ for the sake of what the people thought of him and his actions ? NO!

Thanks to all who took time to reply to my question.

So you basically created this thread to ask us a rhetorical question and to tell us that you think we are wrong.

 

[pdudgeon]

So you basically created this thread to ask us a rhetorical question and to tell us that you think we are wrong.

he may have thought that was his motive, but God had other plans....
plans to put the word before his eyes one more time,
plans to put a seed into his heart,
plans to give him a choice between two paths; one broad and the other narrow.

We die to ourselves daily, but we live for Christ eternally.

 

[Rhamiel]

@RaylightI

before, I was just answering you question as an abstract philosophical/theological question
but now that you have shared more about yourself and your situation, I will answer you more personally

first and foremost
God bless you and your partner for choosing celibacy
that is the FIRST thing that ANY Christian should say to you on this topic
you are my brother in Christ and I love that you two have taken such a principled stance

that is the FIRST and FOREMOST thing that any Christian should say to you.

I mean, this is just an internet forum, you do not really know me, you do not know if I am just saying this so I look good
like I am trying to make myself look more "tolerant" or whatever
but I do mean this from my heart
God bless you

a few months ago I heard the testimony of a celibate Lesbian on EWTN (that is the Catholic radio station in the USA, not sure if they have that where you are?)
anyways
one of the topics she brought up
she was living with a woman, but both of them were Christians, they were celibate
but things did not work out, and they went their separate ways, and she heard that 9 months after they separated, her former partner was getting married to a man.
and this tore her up inside
and she understood, that she had a kind of sexless pseudo-marriage with that woman
but it was not a marriage, and to have lost that, it tore her up inside.
after this she became very promiscuous

we can have friendships
we can have deep friendships filled with love and kindness
but.... if we turn it into a kind of pseudo-marriage, that might not be the best for us psychologically or spiritually

we can see this for straight people too
like people who live together before they get married have a higher divorce rate

just food for thought
from your brother in Christ

 

[AHH who-stole-my-name]

I want marriage. I rather like being married.

I am happy for you and your better half.

 

[AHH who-stole-my-name]

I have two views of Homosexual activities and they are separated by the Vail of religion.The first is for those who wish nothing to do with Christ and are outside the commitments made to God concerning their relationship with him and the other is taking into account that they do want a relationship with him and desire to be a Christian.

The first one is beyond us and should be beyond our activities since there is in the Bible a scripture providing a limitation to our authority in the world as set down by Christ. It is in Matthew 10:14, but I would suggest you read the verses before and after to get a full perspective of it's meanings. The scripture states: And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. I don't know what that means to you, but it means to me that once a choice is made, it is theirs to bear and we are not to burden ourselves further.

That being said, I feel that any who wish to enter into a relationship with God needs to walk the walk as well as, if not more talk the talk. We must condition our lives and everything we do to reflect the values and ideals of god and that extends into the bedroom and beyond. I'm not sorry about this because it is vital to all who take Christianity seriously, because it is a serious thing. We are not talking about a social club here where we can be as fashionable as we liked because it would give us good press. The press is irrelevant here and pleasing them should not even be on our radar screens.

Those who are gay, have a limited option when they are looking to be placed in the book of life and that is to not be in a relasionship that would bring disfavor in the eyes of the lord. I would seek out guidance from qualified persons but much more I would prey morning, noon and night for divine guidance, not that which would be pleasing to you, but that which would bring you closer to your goals as a Christian.

Remeber these words and carve them into your soul. Breath them, eat them and let their meaning be clear. You can only serve one master and a house that is divided can not stand.

 

[AHH who-stole-my-name]

So you basically created this thread to ask us a rhetorical question and to tell us that you think we are wrong.

Many times it's not those who start or even contribute to a thread that benefits by it. Those who like to argue will always come to a thread that's basically controversial. It's those who have more questions than they have words to as them that are the ones who come to these post to actually listen and reflect upon them.

Those are the one's who thirst and they are the one's needing a welcoming hand and a open smile.