Gal 4 "under the Law" vs "under Grace" in Romans 6 and not sinning

[bugkiller]

Why did God have to "fulfill" or "do away" with...the commandment to honor your father and your mother, or do not murder, or love your neighbor as yourself, or take care of your animals, or do not have relations with your kin, or do not blaspheme the name of God, or do not have any other gods other than the One True God?
It's preposterous to suggest that any of God's Holy instructions need to be done away with, especially in order to bring us salvation. It is SIN and sin only that causes physical and eternal death. God didn't give us His holy law only to then deem it worthless and against His believers.


First of all, at no point did I ever suggest that we are to live according to only the "10 commandments".


You can call it ritual. God calls it His Holy Day. You can call it temporal, God calls it Everlasting.
So at this point it's your word against God's. God tells the sons of Israel to observe and keep the Sabbath holy FOREVER!


Not sure what you are suggesting "ended at the cross".
Did or did not the women wait until after the Sabbath to buy spices to take to Yeshua's tomb? (Mark 16:1)
Did or did not Paul offer up sacrifices to complete his Nazarite vows according to Numbers 6? (Acts 18:18, Acts 21:23-26)
Did or did not Paul tell us that he believed everything that was in accordance to the Law and the Prophets (Acts 24:14)
Did or did not the disciples continue to fellowship on the Sabbath day as it is commanded in Leviticus 23 for the Sabbath to be a day of holy convocation.
I could go on.
For you to even suggest that ANY of the 10 commandments, let alone the remaining commandments throughout Scriptures are no longer applicable is crazy.


I gladly choose to follow the example of my Messiah and live my life in accordance to All of the Scriptures. Genesis through Revelation is inspired by God and given for my teaching, reproof, correction and training in Righteousness.
God said both in Matthew 5:17-19 and in Luke 16:17 that until heaven and earth pass and EVERYTHING is accomplished that nothing will pass away from God's Law.

You let me know when you see heaven and earth pass away (Revelations 21:1) and when Yeshua returns to accomplish everything.

The Scriptures are crystal clear in pointing out that ALOT is still to come even though ALOT has already happened.
Acts 3:18-21
"But the things which God announced beforehand by the mouth of all the prophets, that His Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled. Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord; and that He may send Jesus, the Christ appointed for you,
whom heaven must receive until the period of restoration of all things about which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time."

If anyone thinks that ALL has already been accomplished, we're all screwed.
Good thing He's coming back for Part 2.

Sure wish you'd read the Bible instead of using it for a quote mine.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Are you agreeing with me then, that an Israeli believer is supposed to be obedient to the Law of God throughout their generations, keeping the Sabbath day sanctified forever?

Only in an ethnic sense. There is no obligation to an Israeli that has accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior along with that new covenant Jeremiah talks about and Jesus said is current.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

I said:
God WILL make a new covenant with the House of Israel and the House of Judah. It hasn't happened yet.{/quote]This in fact has happened. Jesus is quoted as saying so in 3 Gospels.

God WILL bring back those of the House of Israel and Judah to the land of their forefathers. It hasn't happened yet.

What nonsense. The Bible doesn't say every single Israeli (Jew, or person from either house of Israel) will be brought back to reside in Israel. The truth is Israel is governed by ethnic Israeli currently. There has been a steady stream of returning Jews since early 1900s.

God WILL rebuilt the city of the Lord from the tower of Hanalel to the Corner Gate.

If you say so.

God WILL make it so that we no longer have to teach our neighbors telling them to Know the Lord.

Kool, we'll all become mindless robots.

And you replied with:

Do you disagree with all 4 of the above statements I made (Scripture makes)?

What do you think? The only one I'm not sure of is the one about the Tower of Hanalel.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

1/3 or it? or all of it? (2 Tim 3:16-17)

All of it. Not a single word of it disagrees with another. Remember we (Christians) have a new covenant unlike the one given to the fathers of Israel.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

You proved me right. You read the entire post with a veil.

NOPE!!!

You completely ignored v 6.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Is Jesus God?

Your question doesn't relate to my post at all. You're conflating the trinity to a single entity. Jesus is the only begotten Son of the Father. Jesus therefore isn't the Father. God the Father promised a Redeemer in Genesis 3:15. This Redeemer would come through woman. No Mary isn't the Mother of God, but she is the mother of Jesus.

Furthermore Jesus kept the commandments of His Father while asking us to do something else - Read JN 15:10.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Acts 3:18-21 completely destroys the "everything is finished, when he said 'it is finished'" argument.

"But the things which God announced beforehand by the mouth of all the prophets, that His Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled. Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord; and that He may send Jesus, the Christ appointed for you, whom heaven must receive until the period of restoration of all things about which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time."

It's downright silly for any believer to think that Everything prophesied in the Scriptures has been fulfilled.
He is coming back to accomplish ALOT more in His second coming.

You wish to ignore -

44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

The above is directly related to Mat 5:17-18.

There are other passages in the NT showing the law has passed away like Heb 7:12 another favorite of mine. If you deny Jesus is your high priest you're no Christian.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

What you are telling me is that God was a cynical God who gave men commandments that He knew they wouldn't be able to keep and subsequently punished men for not keeping said commandments...?

I feel like some of the arguments against the Law of God and pro---whatever we deem worthy of our obedience can only be resolved through God's literal removal of blinders covering our eyes. There isn't much more I could do or say. Sometimes it's best for us to stop and think about what we're actually saying instead of trying to do everything in our powers just so that we don't have to be obedient to what God expects from us.

EVERY true believer CAN keep the Law. It's that simple. He gave us His commandments for our good. His commandments reflect His character; they are holy like He is Holy, they are Good like He is Good, they are Righteous, like he is Righteous.
He gave us His commandments to show us how to live a life that pleases Him.

Deuteronomy 30:10-14
10. if you obey the LORD your God to keep His commandments and His statutes which are written in this book of the law, if you turn to the LORD your God with all your heart and soul.
11. "For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach.
12. "It is not in heaven, that you should say, `Who will go up to heaven for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?'
13. "Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, `Who will cross the sea for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?'
14. "But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may observe it.

You're very misguided.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Then you do not need Jesus Christ, because you can do what only He could ever do.

What is simple is that you are deceiving yourself, if you think you can do what only Christ could do.


Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

Peter said neither he nor the fathers had not kept the law.


The Book of Galatians was written to stop what you are trying to advocate.

So was Romans.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Please show me ANYwhere in the Scriptures where God..

1. tells anyone that they are unable to keep His Commandments.

Not in those words. Psalms says twice in fact no one does. Why isn't that enough?

2. tells anyone that they should NOT even attempt to keep His commandments.

Which commandments does God tell us to keep in the NT? (hint - not found in the OT or even a quote there from.

3. tells us that Jesus is the ONLY one who is able to keep God's commandments.

Name any one who has. Remember psalms 14 and 53.

You are basically saying that God gave men a task that they could not do, repeatedly told them to do it, do it, do it, knowing full well they would never be able to do it, and then subsequently punished them over and over again for not doing it.

How do you read Isa 63:17 or Rom 11:32?

Not only is your line of thinking 1 million percent wrong, but it's actually a slap in the face to the Righteousness and Justice of God.

Naw

God's Law reflect His character. His Law is Holy. His Law is Just. His Law is Righteous. His Law is Truth. His Law is a gift given to those who are His. Stop using Jesus as a cop-out out of obedience.

You're asking rather requiring us to disregard and disbelieve much of the NT. No deal!

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Salvation is by grace through faith alone.
My obedient to God's commandments is not what saves me.

But now that we have been redeemed, born again of the Spirit and brought into God's Household, (similar to human adoption) we are to live according to the rules, instructions and guidelines of the Father.

Can your disobedience damn you?

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

There was no fault found with the Law of God or the Covenant that God made as they are both perfect and from God.
The fault was, is and will always be with sinful men who time and time again go against God's Words, Instructions and Covenants.
In the original covenant the people said "all that you have spoken we will do" (Exodus 24:7) and did not keep their word as a nation.


Hebrews 8 was written a while after Calvary and YET whatever "that which decayeth and waxeth old" is not yet vanished, but rather "ready to vanish away". This very verse disproves your theory that somehow the old covenant "passed" away at the cross. I am not even getting into the argument to prove to you what "that" in verse 13 refer to, but for the sake of following your argument...Years and years after the cross it has not yet vanished away...according to your interpretation of Hebrews 8:13.

We can certainly experience elements of the New Covenant at this time, but we are definitely not in fullness of the New Covenant.
It won't be completely fulfilled and "here" until He returns!

That's exactly why we have the new covenant. In the NC the heart is changed which the law could not do.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

So you have not said that one can be saved by the law, why are you being challenged as so?
dont bother to answer. It is a the norm of those who want to void the existence of the law of God that automatically they
interpret as if one has ever said that one can be saved by keeping the law. In the years that I have been involve with Adventist teaching, I have never heard anyone say that can be saved by keeping the law.
Yes, that it is important for our salvation to keep the law, to rebuke sin.
I read into some of the arguments against law keeping that it implies that we are not saved because of something God didnt do or has not done yet with us. As I know the law and the grace of God, their argument against law keeping totally shuts down the true definition of grace.

the law brings us to mind how low we have sank, how bad we have become. Once we sinned, there is nothing on our own that we can do that can change it. From then on, we can be the best of the best and doing all that the bible teaches us. If we dont accept Jesus as our savior, we will never be saved. Only by the grace of God thru the redeeming power in Jesus can we be saved from the condemnation of sin, death.

Enjoy your discussions

Really? Haven't you heard that those who don't keep the Sabbath have no salvation? Does BobS need to repots it for you? I used to post it every once in awhile.

bugkiller

 

[Bob S]

Really? Haven't you heard that those who don't keep the Sabbath have no salvation? Does BobS need to repots it for you? I used to post it every once in awhile.

bugkiller

Those hell bent to keep days don't read our posts as truth. Out of sight is out of mind. I could quote the false prophet all day long and all I would get back is personal attacks. There is absolutely no acknowledgement that she was wrong to write what she wrote. The doctrines they believe came with the stamp of her approval, yet they tell us they only get their beliefs from scripture. What a waste posting to them. I post my rebuttals for the lurkers. I pray they too will not be deceived by the cults.

 

[tzadik]

It is remarkable how one part of a verse is sometimes chosen, but others are ignored.

Somehow, you ignored the words "now" and "is" in Hebrews 8:6.

You also ignored the words "he hath made" in Hebrews 8:13, but latch onto the words which you hope will preserve your viewpoint. The Old covenant temple did vanish away in 70 AD, just as Christ said it would.

You are building your entire argument on what your English version of the Bible decides to use as the translation of the Greek word δέ. All throughout Scripture this word is translated mostly as but.
Not only that, your other "foundation" is the English word 'is' translated from the Greek word ἐγγύς. Look up the definition.

What is clear in any English translation you pick is that many years after the cross this Hebrew author is still claiming that "whatever it is" is still in effect and not yet vanished or disappeared. Even the most antinomian translations can't hide the fact that it's ready to and not yet "destroyed".

New International Version
By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

New Living Translation
When God speaks of a "new" covenant, it means he has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and will soon disappear.

English Standard Version
In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Berean Study Bible
In speaking of a new covenant, He has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.

Berean Literal Bible
In saying, "new," He has made obsolete the first; and that which is growing old and aging is near vanishing.

New American Standard Bible
When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.

King James Bible
In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth oldis ready to vanish away.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
By saying, a new covenant, He has declared that the first is old. And what is old and aging is about to disappear.

International Standard Version
In speaking of a "new" covenant, he has made the first one obsolete, and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.

NET Bible
When he speaks of a new covenant, he makes the first obsolete. Now what is growing obsolete and aging is about to disappear.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
In that he said, “New”, he has made the first old, and that which is outdated and old is near destruction.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
God made this new promise and showed that the first promise was outdated. What is outdated and aging will soon disappear.

New American Standard 1977
When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.

Jubilee Bible 2000
In that he says, New, he has made the first old. Now that which decays and waxes old is ready to vanish away.

King James 2000 Bible
In that he says, A new covenant, he has made the first old. Now that which decays and grows old is ready to vanish away.

American King James Version
In that he said, A new covenant, he has made the first old. Now that which decays and waxes old is ready to vanish away.

American Standard Version
In that he saith, A new covenant he hath made the first old. But that which is becoming old and waxeth aged is nigh unto vanishing away.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Now in saying a new, he hath made the former old. And that which decayeth and groweth old, is near its end.

Darby Bible Translation
In that he says New, he has made the first old; but that which grows old and aged [is] near disappearing.

English Revised Version
In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. But that which is becoming old and waxeth aged is nigh unto vanishing away.

Webster's Bible Translation
In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and groweth old is ready to vanish away.

Weymouth New Testament
By using the words, "a new Covenant," He has made the first one obsolete; but whatever is decaying and showing signs of old age is not far from disappearing altogether.

World English Bible
In that he says, "A new covenant," he has made the first old. But that which is becoming old and grows aged is near to vanishing away.

Young's Literal Translation
in the saying 'new,' He hath made the first old, and what doth become obsolete and is old is nigh disappearing.

 

[tzadik]

Only in an ethnic sense. There is no obligation to an Israeli that has accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior along with that new covenant Jeremiah talks about and Jesus said is current.

bugkiller

Does God say forever, or does He say forever...but you can stop when you accept Jesus?

 

[tzadik]

All of it. Not a single word of it disagrees with another. Remember we (Christians) have a new covenant unlike the one given to the fathers of Israel.

You mean you are added to the New Covenant made with Israel?

 

[tzadik]

Your question doesn't relate to my post at all. You're conflating the trinity to a single entity. Jesus is the only begotten Son of the Father. Jesus therefore isn't the Father. God the Father promised a Redeemer in Genesis 3:15. This Redeemer would come through woman. No Mary isn't the Mother of God, but she is the mother of Jesus.

Furthermore Jesus kept the commandments of His Father while asking us to do something else - Read JN 15:10.

bugkiller

Did Jesus create the world? (Colossians 1)

 

[love2obey]

Really? Haven't you heard that those who don't keep the Sabbath have no salvation? Does BobS need to repots it for you? I used to post it every once in awhile.

bugkiller

Those who sin have no salvation. It is the basis of all bible teachings. It is the main and only reason why there is a redeemer and savior. Why God has done all that He has done for humanity so it can be restored, saved. Not keeping the Sabbath is a sin, therefore, one will loose its salvation just as any other sin will be the cause of it too. Sadly, you are so stuck, hung-up on not keeping the law, that you are missing the point. How badly damaged by sin we are. Many of us will not be found in heaven with Jesus because of their tempers and attitudes, our unwillingness to change.
The law and all that the bible has to teach us is not to put a yoke on our neck. It is there to show us a need to change and how to achieve the change. It was lost when sin became part of us so now we need to get rid of the problem, sin, and accept the solution, Jesus as redeemer. The bible also teaches us that thru Jesus testimony we can see changes in our character possible and thru the empowerment of the Holy Spirit achieve them.
Let us never forget that the disciples walked with Jesus, they believed in Jesus. Yet, until they were able to walk like Jesus, they were not saved. and what were their sins? The same can be said of many of us in churches today. It can be so simple and yet so deadly as to you being lost because of not keeping the Sabbath and me for hating you for not doing so. Sin, the will of the devil, can manifest itself in us in many ways.
Phil 2:12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

 

[love2obey]

Can your disobedience damn you?

bugkiller

Genesis 4:10 And He said, “What have you done? The voice of your brother’s blood cries out to Me from the ground. 11 So now you are cursed from the earth, which has opened its mouth to receive your brother’s blood from your hand.12 When you till the ground, it shall no longer yield its strength to you. A fugitive and a vagabond you shall be on the earth.” 13 And Cain said to the Lord, “My punishment is greater than I can bear!
Genesis 3:16 To the woman He said: “I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; In pain you shall bring forth children; Your desire shall be for your husband, And he shall rule over you.”

SHOULD I CONTINUE?