Gal 4 "under the Law" vs "under Grace" in Romans 6 and not sinning

[bugkiller]

Salvation is by grace through faith alone.
My obedient to God's commandments is not what saves me.

But now that we have been redeemed, born again of the Spirit and brought into God's Household, (similar to human adoption) we are to live according to the rules, instructions and guidelines of the Father.

What are those instructions? Yeah I know you might think that is just a question to argue with you. That simply isn't the case.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

I thing your question was very clear. I think I was lite with the previous answer.
IT WILL KILL YOU. Rom 6:23 it is not just a curse or a punishment.

I'm guessing that means yes disobedience will damn one. So now what ones are applicable to the Christian?

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

I always like to go the beginning. It is the source of what is there after. Even Jesus and the apostles quoted from the beginning. If we were to take the time to read thoroughly the NT, we will find that many of the things that Jesus and the apostles say are taken from the OT. Ex 19:5 And you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words which you shall speak to the children of Israel. 1 Peter 2:9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light. In 1 Peter 2, the apostle quoted the OT at least 5 times. Isaiah 8:14, 28:16, 53:9, Psa 118:22. Nothing new just a different way of saying it since the OT teachers in their days changed things to please themselves. And today, nothing new again as religions today are trying to change everything as Jesus and the apostles did so it can please people so churches can get full. Full of what? on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.
When is that day? Let be clear on that. the New Covenant is what Rom 2:15 states and that happens when Jesus is our redeemer. Those days we testify who is Jesus to us, we will change and on 16 (on the day when) we will be judged by our actions. 2 different days where the first days will say of us what will happen the last day.

So then teaching and quoting from the OT seems to mean obligation to you.

bugkiller

 

[BobRyan]

So then teaching and quoting from the OT seems to mean obligation to you.

bugkiller

it means "ALL scripture is given by inspiration from God AND is to be used for doctrine" 2 Tim 3:16.

Just as Christ did in Luke 24:27.

 

[BobRyan]

I love this verse!

Jesus makes it clear that ALL of the Law and the prophets depend on loving God and loving your neighbor.
Without loving God and loving our neighbor, our obedience is completely worthless.
Obedience is 100% dependent on our love for God. In fact they go hand in hand.

New International Version
All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

New Living Translation
The entire law and all the demands of the prophets are based on these two commandments."

English Standard Version
On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”

That is true - excellent point. It just goes to show that "Bible details matter"!

I agree 100% and that includes not ignoring the scripture that does not agree with our doctrine.

Glad that there is finally a point of agreement.

Does not seem to happen that often between you and me.


Any doctrine which must ignore some scripture to make it work, is a doctrine of ignorance.

So far, I have not seen Judaizers on this board.

(unless it is your claim that C.H. Spurgeon, D.L. Moody, R.C Sproul are all "Judaizers" for claiming to support rather than condemn God's Ten Commandments)

In the sense that all of these ignored the Apostle Paul's words about "casting out" the Sinai covenant

They do not ignore Paul -- they simply refuse to misread him as was pointed out in Galatians 4 already.

Those who "imagine" that Lev 19:18 "Love your neighbor as yourself" is "Sinai covenant abolished" -- simply misread Paul.

Those who "imagine" that Deut 6:5 "Love God with all your heart" is "Sinai covenant abolished" - simply misread Paul

And even the majority of pro-sunday Bible scholars know it.

 

[BobRyan]

I always like to go the beginning. It is the source of what is there after. Even Jesus and the apostles quoted from the beginning. If we were to take the time to read thoroughly the NT, we will find that many of the things that Jesus and the apostles say are taken from the OT. Ex 19:5 And you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words which you shall speak to the children of Israel. 1 Peter 2:9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light. In 1 Peter 2, the apostle quoted the OT at least 5 times. Isaiah 8:14, 28:16, 53:9, Psa 118:22. Nothing new just a different way of saying it since the OT teachers in their days changed things to please themselves. And today, nothing new again as religions today are trying to change everything as Jesus and the apostles did so it can please people so churches can get full. Full of what? on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.
When is that day? Let be clear on that. the New Covenant is what Rom 2:15 states and that happens when Jesus is our redeemer. Those days we testify who is Jesus to us, we will change and on 16 (on the day when) we will be judged by our actions. 2 different days where the first days will say of us what will happen the last day.

how true.

 

[bugkiller]

it means "ALL scripture is given by inspiration from God AND is to be used for doctrine" 2 Tim 3:16.

Just as Christ did in Luke 24:27.

Its kinda like I Tim 1:8. One must use God's Word correctly.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

That is true - excellent point. It just goes to show that "Bible details matter"!



Glad that there is finally a point of agreement.

Does not seem to happen that often between you and me.


Any doctrine which must ignore some scripture to make it work, is a doctrine of ignorance.

So far, I have not seen Judaizers on this board.

(unless it is your claim that C.H. Spurgeon, D.L. Moody, R.C Sproul are all "Judaizers" for claiming to support rather than condemn God's Ten Commandments)



They do not ignore Paul -- they simply refuse to misread him as was pointed out in Galatians 4 already.

That's a great point. We choose to read Paul correctly. We refuse to misread Paul.

Those who "imagine" that Lev 19:18 "Love your neighbor as yourself" is "Sinai covenant abolished" -- simply misread Paul.

Paul or Jesus?

Those who "imagine" that Deut 6:5 "Love God with all your heart" is "Sinai covenant abolished" - simply misread Paul

Paul or Jesus?

And even the majority of pro-sunday Bible scholars know it.

Hogwash!!!!

bugkiller

 

[love2obey]

I dont get it. I didnt bother to see the video since you are implying that it is SDA teaching that to disobey the Lord is death. I thought that is what the bible teaches Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[love2obey]

I'm guessing that means yes disobedience will damn one. So now what ones are applicable to the Christian?

bugkiller

take it into perspective, Adam and Eve were created perfect. And it was so until they decided to be otherwise. as simple as going to a tree. Christians can be fake, do the bible thing if I may say it that way. It is going to be only by the grace of God those who believe and dont sell for short their faith that will be with Jesus when He comes. One must have a very active, alive, relationship with the Lord. WE HAVE THE DEADLIEST ENEMY OF ALL, THE DEVIL, AND HE KNOWS THE BIBLE BETTER THAN YOU AND I. HE KNOWS GOD AND ALL THAT GOD IS AND CAN DO. HE LIVED WITH HIM IN HEAVEN.

Look at Christ, the roll model of all Christians, He had to endure to the end for Him not be lost and take our place on the cross. God wants us not to be just like the average Joe. He created us to be like Him. Let us keep in mind that it was not because of something God did or didnt do that we needed to be saved. Until His death on the cross, the devil had a relentless attack against Jesus so He would not die for our sins. Jesus was born and raised perfect. His faith in the Father until the end kept Him from giving into the devil, being a sinner.

No one is putting aside or saying that Jesus cant do anything against sin. It is that as long as we embrace sin, we are dead, therefore, Jesus cant help us. Remember sin is what gives existence to the devil. As long as we do God's will, the devil is not the one that we are praising with our actions. Our free will is always there. it is the reason why, Eve was tempted and so was Jesus. Unlike Eve, Jesus listened to God's word and did His will.

the blood of the Lamb can not keep us from sinning. It can only redeem us from sin. As long as the devil is alive in our life, because we are sinning, we are eternally dead. As long as Jesus is alive in our life, because we are doing God's will, we have eternal life. This in someway can be interpret as if we can save ourselves. NOOOOO. We can choose to or not be saved until the end. Does it mean that we need to be sin free for Jesus to save us? NOOOOO. We need to rebuke sin and be willing to live sin free and God can empower us to do so.

That is why we are to get over this saved by grace or the law, or being a Jew or a Gentile. it is all about faith, in who do we believe in, God or the devil. Romans 1:17, Habakkuk 2:4 then and only then can John 3:16 be a blessing to us or not.

 

[love2obey]

how true.

a good preacher should be able to preach the same message using the OT or the NT. The need of man has not changed. We are still on earth dealing with one that is against us and wants us dead. Therefore, we need the help of the only one that he fears and has defeated him, Jesus. We need to preach about hope thru faith in Jesus and Jesus only. Too much is being said about Jesus and Paul and Peter, the prophets and the apostles as if each one had something different to add or say. Oh... Ms. White too. When we are into Christ, we rebuke sin, the message is the same.

 

[BobRyan]

I love this verse!

Jesus makes it clear that ALL of the Law and the prophets depend on loving God and loving your neighbor.
Without loving God and loving our neighbor, our obedience is completely worthless.
Obedience is 100% dependent on our love for God. In fact they go hand in hand.

New International Version
All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

New Living Translation
The entire law and all the demands of the prophets are based on these two commandments."

English Standard Version
On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”

That is true - excellent point. It just goes to show that "Bible details matter"!

I agree 100% and that includes not ignoring the scripture that does not agree with our doctrine.

Glad that there is finally a point of agreement.

Does not seem to happen that often between you and me.


Any doctrine which must ignore some scripture to make it work, is a doctrine of ignorance.

So far, I have not seen Judaizers on this board.

(unless it is your claim that C.H. Spurgeon, D.L. Moody, R.C Sproul are all "Judaizers" for claiming to support rather than condemn God's Ten Commandments)

In the sense that all of these ignored the Apostle Paul's words about "casting out" the Sinai covenant

They do not ignore Paul -- they simply refuse to misread him as was pointed out in Galatians 4 already.

Those who "imagine" that Lev 19:18 "Love your neighbor as yourself" is "Sinai covenant abolished" -- simply misread Paul.

Those who "imagine" that Deut 6:5 "Love God with all your heart" is "Sinai covenant abolished" - simply misread Paul

And even the majority of pro-sunday Bible scholars know it.

That's a great point. We choose to read Paul correctly. We refuse to misread Paul.Paul or Jesus?Paul or Jesus?Hogwash!!!!
bugkiller

Interesting....

 

[bugkiller]

take it into perspective, Adam and Eve were created perfect. And it was so until they decided to be otherwise. as simple as going to a tree. Christians can be fake, do the bible thing if I may say it that way. It is going to be only by the grace of God those who believe and dont sell for short their faith that will be with Jesus when He comes. One must have a very active, alive, relationship with the Lord. WE HAVE THE DEADLIEST ENEMY OF ALL, THE DEVIL, AND HE KNOWS THE BIBLE BETTER THAN YOU AND I. HE KNOWS GOD AND ALL THAT GOD IS AND CAN DO. HE LIVED WITH HIM IN HEAVEN.

Look at Christ, the roll model of all Christians, He had to endure to the end for Him not be lost and take our place on the cross. God wants us not to be just like the average Joe. He created us to be like Him. Let us keep in mind that it was not because of something God did or didnt do that we needed to be saved. Until His death on the cross, the devil had a relentless attack against Jesus so He would not die for our sins. Jesus was born and raised perfect. His faith in the Father until the end kept Him from giving into the devil, being a sinner.

No one is putting aside or saying that Jesus cant do anything against sin. It is that as long as we embrace sin, we are dead, therefore, Jesus cant help us. Remember sin is what gives existence to the devil. As long as we do God's will, the devil is not the one that we are praising with our actions. Our free will is always there. it is the reason why, Eve was tempted and so was Jesus. Unlike Eve, Jesus listened to God's word and did His will.

the blood of the Lamb can not keep us from sinning. It can only redeem us from sin. As long as the devil is alive in our life, because we are sinning, we are eternally dead. As long as Jesus is alive in our life, because we are doing God's will, we have eternal life. This in someway can be interpret as if we can save ourselves. NOOOOO. We can choose to or not be saved until the end. Does it mean that we need to be sin free for Jesus to save us? NOOOOO. We need to rebuke sin and be willing to live sin free and God can empower us to do so.

That is why we are to get over this saved by grace or the law, or being a Jew or a Gentile. it is all about faith, in who do we believe in, God or the devil. Romans 1:17, Habakkuk 2:4 then and only then can John 3:16 be a blessing to us or not.

So what sin is it that you seem to be preaching against that will keep one from having eternal life?

bugkiller

 

[love2obey]

So what sin is it that you seem to be preaching against that will keep one from having eternal life?

bugkiller

I believe in a previous post I mentioned to you the follow: You will loose your salvation for not keeping the Sabbath and I will loose my for hating you for not keeping the Sabbath.
Until the end that we will all be judged based on our actions, we need to have a change of character, be like Christ. Christ the man that walked on earth and no one can ever question His ways. When we study the bible, we dont find per say sin in the disciples. Yet, they had problems with their character. As they were, they were not heaven bound and let us not forget that they walked with Jesus. In Romans 7, we find Paul talking about the sin in him. What sin do we find Paul in throughout his ordeals? NONE. Yet he knows the struggle in him that he has to endure.
have you taken the time to think about what would have been of Paul had he not been limited by his poor eye sight? Paul was a no nonsense kind of guy. Look at his attitude in Acts 15:36-41. we find this brilliant and powerful preacher throughout his ministry in need of someone else's eyes.
God has His ways to keep us from being lost. Sadly so does the devil. He knows what button to push

Please look past the 10 Commandments so you would have a better understanding of what is sin. Plus the law that we need to keep dear to our heart and mind so we could not loose the precious gift of salvation given to all who believe in Jesus.

 

[love2obey]

So what sin is it that you seem to be preaching against that will keep one from having eternal life?

bugkiller

Luke 18:18 Now a certain ruler asked Him, saying, “Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”
This young man had done all that was asked of him. Still salvation was not with him.

 

[love2obey]

Oh. Please explain. Thanks.

bugkiller

When it comes to salvation, no one knows for sure until the end that the books are open. we are still in a world being tempted. The devil has not been put await. We may rebuke sin but the devil has not given up. Jesus was tempted while on the cross on His last minutes. Had He given into it, He would had been lost and so was the rest of humanity.
Thank God that we have the remission of sin In Jesus. And as the 2 thieves on the cross, we have a choice to make until the end of our life. Many have chosen to follow Jesus and in time of need have failed. Others who believed in Him, where able to succeed. as we read the bible, we find that Judas was not really into Jesus and His teachings. therefore, on his own he failed the pain of his own actions and killed himself. Contrary to Peter, who for a few minutes took his eyes off Jesus and saw himself alone being questioned about his faith in Jesus. He made mistake that later by the mercy of God were forgiven, continuing to seek the kingdom of heaven and its justice. So who was the true disciple?
Jesus on Matthew 7 brings more light to the subject

 

[bugkiller]

it means "ALL scripture is given by inspiration from God AND is to be used for doctrine" 2 Tim 3:16.

Just as Christ did in Luke 24:27.

Why then do you ignore Rom 7:6 among others I haven't quoted is some time?

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

When it comes to salvation, no one knows for sure until the end that the books are open. we are still in a world being tempted. The devil has not been put await. We may rebuke sin but the devil has not given up. Jesus was tempted while on the cross on His last minutes. Had He given into it, He would had been lost and so was the rest of humanity.
Thank God that we have the remission of sin In Jesus. And as the 2 thieves on the cross, we have a choice to make until the end of our life. Many have chosen to follow Jesus and in time of need have failed. Others who believed in Him, where able to succeed. as we read the bible, we find that Judas was not really into Jesus and His teachings. therefore, on his own he failed the pain of his own actions and killed himself. Contrary to Peter, who for a few minutes took his eyes off Jesus and saw himself alone being questioned about his faith in Jesus. He made mistake that later by the mercy of God were forgiven, continuing to seek the kingdom of heaven and its justice. So who was the true disciple?
Jesus on Matthew 7 brings more light to the subject

JN 5:24

bugkiller

 

[love2obey]

JN 5:24

bugkiller

Good point. “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
Can we safely say that Judas and Peter didnt read or hear the Word from a third party. They were next to Jesus for more than 3 years. They were not just able to hear Jesus but also able to see, speak to, walk with, touch, eat with, sleep by His side, and all that we can think of that one can do with another person who is dear to us. They were able to witness Jesus speak and do things beyond man's imagination.

Therefore, based on this text that you posted and the outcome of Judas and Peter as the bible details the end of their live, who do you say

1. is saved
2. is not
3. is a christian
4. is not

As we read this text as well as many others like it (John 3:16), we find that there is a condition to be met for it to be a blessing to us.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

bump. ooops..... I got sidetracked .....